[SW111]

Just saw an article about the 25th anniversary celebration of the X5. It is generally acknowledged that BMW's best years were the late 90's and early 2000's. It is also generally acknowledged that BMW is going downhill, especially in the styling department. Is it a coincidence that the introduction of SUV's coincides with the downward trend? I remember when BMW did not make SUV's and were considered drivers cars. Excellent steering and road feel, and overall road manners. They looked good too. It seems to me they are just ugly expensive luxury cars now. There are exceptions, and I consider my 2016 F22 M235 with a manual transmission as one of them, but it is almost 10 years old. I got it because it was the smallest lightest thing they made. I had been without a BMW for awhile and wanted something on the new side. At the local BMWCCA chapter cars and coffee everyone gravitates toward the older cars. The equivalent 2 series now is a boxy, ugly car. I honestly can’t think of anything in their current lineup that I would consider attractive. I just saw a new 7 series and one of its grills would cover both mine. I was invited to an X3 event at the local dealer. Same thing, ugly grills and blocky styling. The dash was hideous, a big screen stretched across the dash. It reminded me of a Tesla.

///M cars used to be somewhat exclusive and special. My E34 ///M5 was one of about 1500 in the U.S. It was hand assembled and had an engine derived from racing. Now they plaster the ///M badge all over, on every thing they make. It is the one thing I really dislike about my car. ///M badges everywhere.

Maybe BMW would have ended up here without the SUV's. There are other factors to be sure, Chinese and younger people’s tastes among them. But I think SUV's took the focus away from the cars. I know I am out of their target demographic now, but the Audi's and Mercedes I see around look decent.

Moderators move this to the "You know you're old when" thread if needed.

https://bimmerlife.com/2024/11/13/ce...tm_name=member

[MJBO]

Enough Generals in that post to staff an army!

You can keep your old 2 series, I’ll be enjoying my G81 and my wife is loving her G42 M240i

I don’t love everything BMW is doing, but some of it is down to increasingly stringent regulations, and others are simply what the buyers want.

I love everything about my G81, and I’ve previously had an F82 M4, E90 M3 and E46 M3 manual.

[SW111]

Yep. I mentioned that I am not their target demographic anymore and time has passed me by. I should have put in the "You know your old" thread.

[stbm5]

BMWs from a lot of years have been great. ive had an M3, M4 and M5 in the last 10 years and they were all great cars. had an X3M that was awful, truly terrible and i returned it to dealer after 2 weeks. overall though, i think they are still making great vehicles. who else offers the performance of an M3 at a lower price? might be able to argue a couple but the current M3 gives great bang for your buck, looks amazing and has great performance. does porsche have an equivalent? nope. mercedes more expensive. audi less reliable...

[DanG]

Got to remember that SUVs outsell cars. But BMW true M cars are still something special.

[BMWbiker]

BMW hasn’t been the same since they discontinued the Isetta.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by BMWbiker

BMW hasn’t been the same since they discontinued the Isetta.

It’s hard to argue with that.

[tturedraider]

I don’t think the design disaster that has befallen BMW has much to do with the SUVs. I think it has to do with the Chinese market influence and they, for some stupid reason, decided BMW design should be avant-garde. Damn the classic aesthetics that got BMW where they are today and kept their cars designs looking classic for decades after they were produced. And it definitely is affected by their decision to abandon their focus on being a driver’s car, which wasn’t helped by the introduction of SUVs.

[Nahlem]

Times change and BMW adapts to the change but i think BMW is still offering great products to a variety of customers both for the traditionalists and the newer generation. But again BMW as any other company has to adapt and move on to where the profits are and they are not in the "classic" BMW sense any-more, but that doesn't mean those customers are gone BMW definitely should offer a product for them to they are still an part of the companies loyal customers but not the biggest one any-more.

But when it comes to SUVs i have a hard time with SUVs i prefer touring versions instead but i do understand the attraction of SUVs, sitting higher up, feeling more safe due to it being a bigger cars and the luxury feeling of them, but the precived safety of SUVs are no longer true sense a lot more people have SUVs nowadays it was a study that was done not to long ago where they came to the conclusion that yes SUV driver was safer in a head on collision then those in smaller cars for a while until the rest of them catched up so nowadays no one is safer then the other ones because a lot more people are driving SUVs and they weight a lot more and the crashes are more violent as a result to the massive energy at play here. The biggest losers in the game is pedestrians and cyclists those who aint in any cars. Even the truckers are getting more injuries due to the big massive collisions with SUVs.

So now we are in a situation where the customers who bought the first SUVs that came a long are now switching to larger ones to keep feeling more safe, and you see where this is going? "Customer A buys a large SUV for his family to feel safe on the road, Customer B no longer feels safe in his compact/touring car so he buys a SUV, now Customer A also feels unsafe again and buys a larger SUV. "

Its an horrible circle we can't seem to get out of!

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

I don’t think the design disaster that has befallen BMW has anything to do with the SUVs. I think it has to do with the Chinese market influence and they, for some stupid reason, decided BMW design should be avant-garde. Damn the classic aesthetics that got BMW where they are today and kept their cars designs looking classic for decades after they were produced. And it definitely is affected by their decision to abandon their focus on being a driver’s car, which wasn’t helped by the introduction of SUVs.

Absolutely spot on.

BMW has always been a popular "have the new model" yuppie car. They predominantly so leases, and so BMW is not incentivized to have it's designs stay current looking.


The transition to SUVs is largely due to CAFE regulations. CAFE fleet requirements for cars have been insane for a long time, and anything that's a crossover or larger is considered a light truck and subject to different rules and lower restrictions. This is why you can still get a V8 in Audi SQ7, why the V8 will live on the in the next gen X5 and X7, but will only be in the M5. BMW simply cannot meet the CAFE fleet requirements that way. To be fair, they can't meet them regardless because they're insane, but BMW and others have decided to to what they can to limit their CAFE fines exposure. And the people who lose on this are consumers and especially enthusiasts.

[VicWip]

I see this forum is still lousy with Luddites! Lol! "Holy bitchin' Boomers, Batman!!! Why did they get into bimmers in the first place???" Was it to agonize endlessly over the vestigial paddle being made out of crystal or (hold it) plastic? Or maybe it was to puzzle out the ins and outs of Veganza or leather (Veganza all the way). No chance!!! It was to drive them hell bent for leather and have FUN!!!
From snooty asides about "garish leds around the grill" to complaints about the FABULOUS 14.9' display, bimmerpost abounds with posts from people who should have gotten an Audi or a Benz.. I'm reminded of the old adage about life being a grammar lesson with the present being tense and the past being perfect, etc. BS!!! Bimmers in the 90s were unmitigated pieces of sht compared to the G60 for example... For those of us who actually drove these vaunted treasures of the past they were constant headaches! From dashboards that split open from end to end to the dreaded ignition cable seemingly made out of dental floss, they were trouble from start to finish.
Today, here in the future, we have the 2024 540i (the G60 in all its glory). Its heavier and larger than its predecessor so it really grips the road. I traded in my G30 as it skipped endlessly when I floored it around corners. It was a major disappointment and this is one of the reasons you can't get rear wheel drive anymore. And the fact that the B58 is a BEAST!!!
Now I can fly around corners and have a better chance of learning cantonese in my sleep than flipping this car over or skipping into the next lane! It becomes ONE WITH THE ROAD now. But the best part of the G60 is acknowledging the nod and the sneer of the hellcat in the next lane as I flick on sport mode with the wave of a hand, while the other taps the boost paddle and the countdown begins.. by the time the light changes and I'm flying down the street I could care less whether I got the HK stereo or the smoke white interior. I'm too busy feeling JOY and PLEASURE to worry about the re-design or what the fckn door handle is made out of..
Some of you guys need to take your cars out to the desert or some BFE and take it up past a buck twenty and really FEEL how superior a BMW really is.. Most cars act like they're going to shake apart but these just fly down the road with the greatest of ease! If you've never felt your gooch tingle when driving your bimmer, you're not doing it right!!! Most people have NO clue what these cars can really do and in my opinion most never will..

[reallymarkedup]

Originally Posted by VicWip

I see this forum is still lousy with Luddites! Lol! "Holy bitchin' Boomers, Batman!!! Why did they get into bimmers...<snip>

I'm going to need you to step away from the espresso. Put the cup down and back up slowly.

[erickonphoenix]

The "rugged block" aesthetic is in vogue at the moment. It'll take another generation to wash this out.

[tekphobius]

I LOVE the styling of my x3mc. However, the new X3's don't look that great to me, so you may be onto something...

[cooolone2]

Anyone embracing the infantile design changes in regard to exterior aesthetics over the last few years there's very low taste in style or appreciation for the finer things... BMW has really screwed the pooch on this... And then double down on it despite the backlash! Yeah yeah yeah, people will buy a BMW just because, but I'm not sure I'll be one of them until things change! I'd rather restore an old E46 than waste my $ on the new garbage! And oh, I'll keep my 2020 M240 as well! Lol

But hey, one man's trash is another's castle! So there it is... Ancient wisdom speaks!

[LuisBoston]

The great thing about the car market is you all are free to go elsewhere.

When you do you’ll find that in most cases, BMW is still better.

[MJBO]

Originally Posted by cooolone2

Anyone embracing the infantile design changes in regard to exterior aesthetics over the last few years there's very low taste in style or appreciation for the finer things... BMW has really screwed the pooch on this... And then double down on it despite the backlash! Yeah yeah yeah, people will buy a BMW just because, but I'm not sure I'll be one of them until things change! I'd rather restore an old E46 than waste my $ on the new garbage! And oh, I'll keep my 2020 M240 as well! Lol

But hey, one man's trash is another's castle! So there it is... Ancient wisdom speaks!

Your post reeks of wisdom

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

The great thing about the car market is you all are free to go elsewhere.

When you do you’ll find that in most cases, BMW is still better.

That’s not truly the case. Unfortunately, if you want something new with an inline six there’s no where else to go and then add to that RWD is it’s a double whammy!! So, the option is staying with the older stuff.

[LuisBoston]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

That’s not truly the case. Unfortunately, if you want something new with an inline six there’s no where else to go and then add to that RWD is it’s a double whammy!! So, the option is staying with the older stuff.

The same could be said for carbureted v8s and crank engines and horse and buggies.

The world moves on.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by LuisBoston

The same could be said for carbureted v8s and crank engines and horse and buggies.

The world moves on.

No, actually it couldn’t. You draw a false equivalency.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

That’s not truly the case. Unfortunately, if you want something new with an inline six there’s no where else to go and then add to that RWD is it’s a double whammy!! So, the option is staying with the older stuff.

You're asking for a singular, less efficient engine configuration. If you have room for an i6, you have room for a more powerful V8.

That said, there's more i6 offerings now. Than there have been for a long time. BMW, MB Mazda, Dodge all have I6s, most with RWD.

Now if you were complaining about manual cars, V8s, etc I would agree with you that the old cars deliver for enthusiasts better than new ones.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by SW111

It is generally acknowledged that BMW's best years were the late 90's and early 2000's. It is also generally acknowledged that BMW is going downhill...

As someone who bought his first BMW in 1996 (and has owned at least one BMW for the last 28 years), I disagree.

I think it was 1996 or 1997 when BMW broke 100K vehicles sold in the US, edging out MB. Well they sold 362,244 vehicles in 2023, and have had increases in Q1, Q2 and Q3 of 2024, so your definition of downhill is only relative to your subjective opinion of styling.