[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by thaalrasha

From what I understand the G87 is more capable than the F87 (thank god) and better behaved. Doesn't mean it's actually better / interesting as an overall experience to drive... Like EVs, they are surely capable in some aspect and faster, do I want to drive that ? hell no.

I've had an F87, and F82 and currently an AWD G80. Of course the G80 is faster anywhere, safer, slides so predictable and progressive and list goes on... Is it more fun than my previous F82 / F87 and it's loud DCT fart when upshifting during WOT near the red line? not a chance... Do you need to respect it otherwise it might kill you by snapping ? No... Now to get "fun" in a G80 you absolutely need a track to make that car feel alive, and it's at least as much engaging there. The F gen was easier to have fun with on the normal road and speeds. So I can kind of understand what Thomas was trying to say in that review. Objectively the new car is better... but subjectively you'd take the old one for a fun week end drive.

I agree .The F87 platform is very , and i mean very capable. Just today BMWThree did a sub7 lap time with their M2 comp. That alone proves that wizards of Garching can create a really good chassis. Under 7 minute laptimes at Nurburgring aren't easy. Im sure the G87 will be even more capable with builds etc , ive seen a Team schirmer G82 that did 6:53 btg , so i expect the G87 to be as fast if not faster ! The real issue for me is that it will never be as fun/playful on the road as you need a track to extract its soul.

[pizza240]

I can't watch these Canadian boys.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by F87EVO

I agree .The F87 platform is very , and i mean very capable. Just today BMWThree did a sub7 lap time with their M2 comp.

Specs on this car?

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by m2ss

Specs on this car?

Sure it has a lot of upgrades , but my point isnt that . Its to say how capable this platform is if you want it to be ! The car has 680hp and 900nm but the laptime was not a slicks , but with road tires - direzza. The weight is 1350kg. Again i focus on the actual potential of the chassis here.

[FoxyP]

Well with coilovers, semislicks, power upgrade, brakeupgrade, weightloss, aeroupgrades etc. you can probably take almost any chassis and make something out of it if „you want to“. Not a lot left over from the original car…

And direzzas are semislicks and not considered as normal roadtires like UHPs are. I had them on my car as well and the difference to a UHP was huge.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by F87EVO

Sure it has a lot of upgrades , but my point isnt that . Its to say how capable this platform is if you want it to be ! The car has 680hp and 900nm but the laptime was not a slicks , but with road tires - direzza. The weight is 1350kg. Again i focus on the actual potential of the chassis here.

I understand what your focus was, I just couldn't find the specs anywhere. Those times even with direzzas are impressive indeed.

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by m2ss

I understand what your focus was, I just couldn't find the specs anywhere. Those times with road tires are impressive indeed.

Indeed. I have been following them for quite some time now , and i also asked them.

[heavyD^2]

Originally Posted by pizza240

I can't watch these Canadian boys.

Come on man. Support your fellow Canucks! I watched the video but you made the right decision by not clicking. I usually support these guys but they lost me on this one. Not sure if they were purposely trying to trigger BMW fans or G87 owners but it was a weird comparison where they spent way too much time trying to discredit one car to justify preferring another especially when the one they discredited was the better performer. I can understand why a lot of people would consider neither of these cars a looker but they even piled on the M2 as ugly while liking the RS3. A car that doesn't even have a proper finished front end, the generic side profile of a regular A3, and tires staggered the wrong direction. Sorry Throttle House boys but this video was just a miss.

[Chet for short]

Originally Posted by overcooked

That inline 5 in RS3 is a master piece. However everything else in that car is meh…
Especially that haldex awd system that’s basically a FWD 90% of the time, terrible terrible terrible.

It's no longer Haldex - it's a true torque vectoring rear diff. But, you are right in that it can only send UP TO 50% of the torque to the rear, but of that 50%, 100% can be sent to either rear wheel. It's better than before but still fundamentally an understeering chassis.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by FoxyP

The weight is correct. Its the official EU weight of the M2 with the automatic. The quotet 1800kg include the driver with 68kg and luggage with 7kg. So that means without driver the stock M2 auto should weigh in at 1725kg.

I think it's worth talking about this some more. As presenters of information, TH CANNOT CANNOT present a comparison where they show DIN weight for one car and EU weight for another. That's either staggering incompetence or willfully misleading your viewers. And I'm only providing the "or" because I'm trying to be nice.

As I said in the previous TH video, TH can have opinions I disagree with. They like what they like, that's fine! I object to none of that. But when they misrepresent core facts like weight, or invent misleading tests (4THGC), then they have crossed a line. They need to do better! (Assuming they want to be taken seriously.)

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by FoxyP

Well with coilovers, semislicks, power upgrade, brakeupgrade, weightloss, aeroupgrades etc. you can probably take almost any chassis and make something out of it if „you want to“. Not a lot left over from the original car…

And direzzas are semislicks and not considered as normal roadtires like UHPs are. I had them on my car as well and the difference to a UHP was huge.

So you re saying that chassis/platform doesnt matter as long as you have these upgrades? My man a mustang cant even accelerate in a straight line. And how can you make a 1800kg a 1350kg car ? 1600kg maybe yes .

[baron95]

Originally Posted by npirnia

Clearly their track doesn't reward horsepower if aero and 190 bhp only pulls 0.4 seconds from the lap time (SS vs ZL1). There probably isn't much accelerating on that track so you are right that it is all down to the corners.

-Nick

Great point it's a low speed track, acceleration out of slow corners probably limited by traction more than HP.

I'm psyched to get my M2. I just hope it doesn't arrive in the middle of winter

P.S. And to think the G87 can easily take in a RaceChip to bump it to the power of the G80 comp or CS tune for $600 is insane.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by Chet for short

It's no longer Haldex - it's a true torque vectoring rear diff. But, you are right in that it can only send UP TO 50% of the torque to the rear, but of that 50%, 100% can be sent to either rear wheel. It's better than before but still fundamentally an understeering chassis.

My experience with these front heavy FWD-based setups (Audi, Golf R, etc) on track is that they will put decent lap times for a few laps, but then start to overtax the front tires and fall off. Also durability of front tires on track is a challenge.

RWD setups may not put as fast an initial lap time on a short track, but it will be more consistent later in a session and you will get a lot more front tire life on track.

Of all the AWD cars I have driven on track only the 911s seem to not overtax the front tires when pushed.

[awg87]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Come on man. Support your fellow Canucks! I watched the video but you made the right decision by not clicking. I usually support these guys but they lost me on this one. Not sure if they were purposely trying to trigger BMW fans or G87 owners but it was a weird comparison where they spent way too much time trying to discredit one car to justify preferring another especially when the one they discredited was the better performer. I can understand why a lot of people would consider neither of these cars a looker but they even piled on the M2 as ugly while liking the RS3. A car that doesn't even have a proper finished front end, the generic side profile of a regular A3, and tires staggered the wrong direction. Sorry Throttle House boys but this video was just a miss.

yeah usually they're great but thomas has a vendetta against the g-chassis 2 series in general. maybe buyers remorse?

[pizza240]

Originally Posted by heavyD^2

Come on man. Support your fellow Canucks! I watched the video but you made the right decision by not clicking. I usually support these guys but they lost me on this one. Not sure if they were purposely trying to trigger BMW fans or G87 owners but it was a weird comparison where they spent way too much time trying to discredit one car to justify preferring another especially when the one they discredited was the better performer. I can understand why a lot of people would consider neither of these cars a looker but they even piled on the M2 as ugly while liking the RS3. A car that doesn't even have a proper finished front end, the generic side profile of a regular A3, and tires staggered the wrong direction. Sorry Throttle House boys but this video was just a miss.

I like your summary and points about the design. It sounds like their review was a bit biased. Glad I don't have to watch, hah.

IMO the M2 looks pretty good, but I'm looking forward to seeing how the Comp and CS will be differentiated from the standard M2.

...and the Audi front end is actually OK in my eyes. Better than most Audis. But the rear end, and the profile? No thanks. It suffers from the same looks issue as any A3, S3, etc.: it's a stubby sedan. Sedans that small shouldn't have 4 doors.

Hatch version has me somewhat satisfied with the looks, but it's just not my kind of car.

Not my kind of AWD drivetrain.

I don't like to support anyone just because they're Canadian, but I'm glad they're somewhat easier to watch than the straight pipes. This is coming from a guy who only likes watching the UK and German reviewers that many people consider to be boring.

Cheers

[heavyD^2]

You watch the Straight Pipes to kill time or if they are reviewing a vehicle of particular interest but they are as pure fluff like Raiti's Rides. I'm not into shitting on anyone that's trying to make a career out of reviewing automobiles but you need to be careful about hanging on to any opinions especially from guys using cliche corner as a benchmark handling test. I can at least respect that Thomas and James can drive cars at a high level enough to respect their opinions.

[FoxyP]

Originally Posted by F87EVO

So you re saying that chassis/platform doesnt matter as long as you have these upgrades? My man a mustang cant even accelerate in a straight line. And how can you make a 1800kg a 1350kg car ? 1600kg maybe yes .

No I am not saying it doesnt matter. But also stripped mustang will be able to achieve sub 7 BTG easily with that many upgrades… even a 2013 Shelby GT350 did a full lap in around 7:32

[FoxyP]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I think it's worth talking about this some more. As presenters of information, TH CANNOT CANNOT present a comparison where they show DIN weight for one car and EU weight for another. That's either staggering incompetence or willfully misleading your viewers. And I'm only providing the "or" because I'm trying to be nice.

As I said in the previous TH video, TH can have opinions I disagree with. They like what they like, that's fine! I object to none of that. But when they misrepresent core facts like weight, or invent misleading tests (4THGC), then they have crossed a line. They need to do better! (Assuming they want to be taken seriously.)

Well man you are wrong, as the Audi is also listet with its EU weight as well, which is 1650kg (for the sedan). So that makes EU vs EU, 1650 vs 1800 in the video (and DIN vs DIN would be 1575 vs 1725).

[F87EVO]

Originally Posted by FoxyP

No I am not saying it doesnt matter. But also stripped mustang will be able to achieve sub 7 BTG easily with that many upgrades… even a 2013 Shelby GT350 did a full lap in around 7:32

Its not as easy as you think to achieve a laptime under 7 ! The best time of any mustang in Nurburgring is 7:15 i think and thats with slicks not road tires. So yes , my point is to point out that BMW knows how to make great chassis. A 60k car capable of doing such laptimes is something. Its something when you compete GT3s and supercars in a small coupe. Just wanted to point out that BMW knows , after all their whole focus is on DTM and thats important.

[FoxyP]

I think it depends if we are talking full lap or BTG, which is a good difference of a about 30sec I believe. I agree, sub 7 on a full lap is a strong performance.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by FoxyP

Well man you are wrong, as the Audi is also listet with its EU weight as well, which is 1650kg (for the sedan). So that makes EU vs EU, 1650 vs 1800 in the video (and DIN vs DIN would be 1575 vs 1725).

I stand corrected, I misremembered the EU weight of the RS3. TY for pointing that out!

[ThesaVeliona]

Why I always find it funny whenever we get threads surrounding G87 and a said car? Is it because of the reviews? Is it because of people giving it bad rep and making the F87 going up in the value? Please, quote me and tell me why. I find it so funny.