[ronin13013]

There are plenty of reviews. Choose the ones that suit your narrative.

Originally Posted by ThesaVeliona

Why I always find it funny whenever we get threads surrounding G87 and a said car? Is it because of the reviews? Is it because of people giving it bad rep and making the F87 going up in the value? Please, quote me and tell me why. I find it so funny.

[Squidget]

Happens on every forum for every car. I remember all the haters on the F87 forums, comparing it to the 1M. Or hating on the F87C because it gained so much weight.

OMG, the Supra forums. OMG, OMG. They lost their collective shit when the A90 was announced and it was a reskinned BMW.

There's no high ground here.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by MadBimmeRad

Soon they'll be 2 tonnes

There is small city next to LA….Pasadena

I’ll Pass ❕

[baron95]

Originally Posted by M3R1

I bought my 2018 SS1LE for $39k (pre-covid)... Tell me what is a better bank for the buck with a warranty?!?

I think I bought mine for $41K. Also a 2018 SS1LE - It was a great bang for the buck. Sad to see GM kill it after 2024.

Having said that, I think the G87 M2 will be a step up in ergonomics (e.g. visibility), tech, and according to initial impressions and reviews a near peer to the SS1LE in driving dynamics (with a tire change to something close to the GYSC3).

The other thing to consider is that dropping in a $600 Racechip in 15 min, can yield 15% more HP.

[M3R1]

Originally Posted by baron95

I think I bought mine for $41K. Also a 2018 SS1LE - It was a great bang for the buck. Sad to see GM kill it after 2024.

Having said that, I think the G87 M2 will be a step up in ergonomics (e.g. visibility), tech, and according to initial impressions and reviews a near peer to the SS1LE in driving dynamics (with a tire change to something close to the GYSC3).

The other thing to consider is that dropping in a $600 Racechip in 15 min, can yield 15% more HP.

No doubt the G87 M2 is a performer. The SS1LE has its flaws for sure (visibility as you said), driving dynamics was not one of them. I sold mine for my ESS-625 M3. I miss that car dearly!

[XC3LLR8]

I could only make it through the first page of comments. The car beats a $20K less Camaro by only 1/3rd of a second (and likely lose after heat soak takes its toll), can't even beat an understeering legend by a full second, and you whine they're not praising the new M2 as a track god.

I love the BMW brand, but let's take off the blinders.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by bholler

And we all though BMW front ends we’re becoming trash.

What the heck happen to Audi?!?!

They tried to outdo BMW and failed. Miserably at that.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

I could only make it through the first page of comments. The car beats a $20K less Camaro by only 1/3rd of a second (and likely lose after heat soak takes its toll), can't even beat an understeering legend by a full second, and you whine they're not praising the new M2 as a track god.

I love the BMW brand, but let's take off the blinders.

Not saying it's a "track god" but a SS 1LE is $15k less expensive, not $20k. That $15k gives you an actual luxury car interior with tons of standard tech, high quality materials, and a more usable (if still small) backseat). American performance cars have always been about dirt cheap power, it's no surprise an M2 is more expensive (and still faster ).

The RS3 is the only thing that's really in it's category. For which it's both price competitive and superior in performance.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

Not saying it's a "track god" but a SS 1LE is $15k less expensive, not $20k. That $15k gives you an actual luxury car interior with tons of standard tech, high quality materials, and a more usable (if still small) backseat). American performance cars have always been about dirt cheap power, it's no surprise an M2 is more expensive (and still faster ).

The RS3 is the only thing that's really in it's category. For which it's both price competitive and superior in performance.

I think the SS 1LE is a hoot, but I'm picky about visibility. Unfortunately the Camaro is moot as of next year anyway.

I'll again nominate the CT4-V BW as a competitor. Price isn't too different, performance is pretty close. BW has more rear space, better shifter feel, but lower quality materials, and probably a lower ceiling if you talk about track mods.

But yeah, the M2 has few 1:1 competitors in its segment.

Also, hey, Dark Horse previews are finally appearing now. Looks like a sweet car. Will keep an eye it.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I think the SS 1LE is a hoot, but I'm picky about visibility. Unfortunately the Camaro is moot as of next year anyway.

I'll again nominate the CT4-V BW as a competitor. Price isn't too different, performance is pretty close. BW has more rear space, better shifter feel, but lower quality materials, and probably a lower ceiling if you talk about track mods.

But yeah, the M2 has few 1:1 competitors in its segment.

Also, hey, Dark Horse previews are finally appearing now. Looks like a sweet car. Will keep an eye it.

Ah yeah, knew I was forgetting something. CT4-V BW is for sure the only other real option if you want a manual. I'd be a little concerned about the interior/tech holding up over time, I'll never forget talking to someone with a nearly-new CTS-V several years ago who ranted to me for 15 minutes about how all the issues he was having with the interior lol.

After owning two Mustangs I don't think I'd ever want to pick one up again unless it was a stick Shelby, but who knows.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

Ah yeah, knew I was forgetting something. CT4-V BW is for sure the only other real option if you want a manual. I'd be a little concerned about the interior/tech holding up over time, I'll never forget talking to someone with a nearly-new CTS-V several years ago who ranted to me for 15 minutes about how all the issues he was having with the interior lol.

You know what I honestly hated most about the BW when I test drove it? It molested me!

GM's approach of vibrating the seat pan is the WORST. I do NOT want my junk vibrated when I get close to a curb.

It's just a curb, GM, a simple beep would have sufficed. And you didn't even buy me dinner first.

[Moflow]

Originally Posted by CodeSlinger

Not saying it's a "track god" but a SS 1LE is $15k less expensive, not $20k. That $15k gives you an actual luxury car interior with tons of standard tech, high quality materials, and a more usable (if still small) backseat).

The question really is "how much money is being able to see out of your car worth to you?"

[Covfefe]

The step down to a Camaro is even less than $15k if you buy a common dealer-spec'd 2SS 1LE, which is typically in the mid 50s. To me, $10k is well worth the step up to something German for materials, drivetrain, and so that I can actually see when I'm lane changing in Atlanta traffic. The E82 and F22 series have exceptional visibility with their somewhat vertically tall and horizontally short silhouettes. I imagine the G87 is roughly the same.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

To me, $10k is well worth the step up to something German for materials, drivetrain, and so that I can actually see when I'm lane changing in Atlanta traffic.

You take your car out in traffic?

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Moflow

The question really is "how much money is being able to see out of your car worth to you?"

After a few hours in the car the "visibility" issues are gone. I had a SS rental for a week and I liked it so much is what led me to get the SS 1LE. The only thing I didn't like is it was never comfortable resting your arm on the window seal when the window's down.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Covfefe

The step down to a Camaro is even less than $15k if you buy a common dealer-spec'd 2SS 1LE, which is typically in the mid 50s. To me, $10k is well worth the step up to something German for materials, drivetrain, and so that I can actually see when I'm lane changing in Atlanta traffic. The E82 and F22 series have exceptional visibility with their somewhat tall and short silhouettes. I imagine the G87 is roughly the same.

My showroom 2020 1SS 1LE was $45K. Not sure what MSRP is today on same spec'd car? No question the G87 is a better car, as the saying "you get what you pay for" holds true.

[CodeSlinger]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

My showroom 2020 1SS 1LE was $45K. Not sure what MSRP is today on same spec'd car? No question the G87 is a better car, as the saying "you get what you pay for" holds true.

Lotta of inflation between now and 2020

[baron95]

If you want a 2+2 or 4 pax car that can be fun on track and street, there are actually quite a few competitors in the $50K-$75K range.

Camaro SS1LE and ZL1 - sadly poor visibility and on the way out.

Mustang Dark Horse - now with a dash that is almost a copy of the iDrive 8

Cadillac CT4-V Blackwing - basically a 4 door Camaro (same chassis).

CLA45AMG, RS3, Acura TLX Type S, Lexus RC-F, etc, etc, etc.

I just think the M2 is the new king - well rounded, good tech, performance, luxury, aftermarket support, etc.

[Throttle House Thomas]

Hey everyone, Thomas here.

Thought I'd finally speak up and clear a few things up.

We matched EU weights in the stats. We had decided to go with EU weights because it was the best way to make sure we had the most accurate weights for both vehicles. It gets a bit funky when you start looking at curb weights, which we couldn't find a conclusive number on for the Audi. There was a mistake where we had not removed the <40 lbs for the carbon bits (and it gets a bit confusing when you try to factor in the slick top vs sunroof weights) so thanks for pointing that out to us, but in the drag race video we show all equal/correct weights for those interested.

Also as for the "4th gear pull gate" ( I believe there is a hashtag which is hilarious, well done everyone). We never exaggerated anything about it. We just "showed" it. We demonstrated that there is less low end torque available in the new manual, due to the gearing and the new powerband. Makes it less "angry" than the F87. The new engine pulls harder to redline, which we point out. Thats all.

Ok, now that thats out of the way, I'm going to share a few thoughts for those that care.

I never once said the G87 is "worse" than the F87. (except for the fact that its too heavy for a baby M car and the brakes and the steering have no feel.) The G87 is obviously an excellent platform. Perfectly dialed in handling. I just said I LIKE the F87 better. It feels lighter and is more engaging to drive. And yes, (subjective opinion incoming) the F87 looks MILES better to my eyes. But again, the important thing here is that the car that might be OBJECTIVELY better, is not always the car I (or we) choose.

Want to know the honest truth? Speed is pointless. Cars are far too fast nowadays, so eventually as a car enthusiast, one starts to seek other things. Engagement being the big one. My favourite car I own right now is a 1984 Rabbit GTI. It has like 90 hp. Its the slowest car I own. But I LOVE driving it. Eventually, you may find you lose your taste for chasing pure acceleration. You want quick? Tesla! (Trust me I don't like that solution any more than you). So with this in mind, sometimes the "worse" car is the "better" car.

In this video we didn't favour one car over the other in actual metric testing. We had to wait until the Trofeo Rs came in to do the laptime in the RS3 (Only way to make it fair against the M2 on Cup2s, which was Audi USA's request). The tires came the next day, where actually, the temps were lower and there was a horrible headwind. Sorry to say, but in equal conditions the RS3 would likely have been even closer in lap time. And yes, truth is, for me, the RS3 is the more fun car to drive. Again, We never blindly pick the car that is simply the better performer. We pick the one we LIKE the best. (And sometimes we can't possible choose!). But in this case I would drive home in the Audi.

And yes, BMW Canada put the G87 on cup 2s for testing. Yes its a free option, but the PS4S is the superior everyday performance tire, which I hope all of you will option. In our experience it's a better choice for car ownership EVEN IF you go to track days. (Just don't drive your car like I did, or that tire bill is gonna hurt)

Also, (And I'm sure this will start an argument lol) The M2CS manual, DID indeed beat the G87 on the same tires. (Yes the auto makes a difference in laptimes). If you look at the changes to the M2CS over the comp, the G87 has a lot of those "upgrades" in stock form (adjustable dampers, cup 2s, lighter parts) AND the G87 more power to offset the weight. So the philosophy of the M2CS and the new G87 are similar. Draw your own conclusions from the lap times.

In the end, none of what I say, should sway your choice. To be clear, I really do like the new M2. Is it the way I would have designed it? No. But I'm very glad it exists.

We will continue to do things the way we've always done them. Bring you the most realistic tests of cars possible, while sharing our opinions on the cars (often in a ridiculous way). But always feel free to disagree with our opinions. You guys keep us in check.

Thanks for everything!

-T

[Squidget]

Thank you for the explanations of your process, and I appreciate you engaging with us on this!

I'll say this, things can be "true" but misleading unless you provide proper context. I have beef with the 4th gear bit because a low-information viewer doesn't understand what high-vs-low RPM tuning is. I do not think you drew a bright enough line from A to B there. The forums were flooded with people who thought the G87's motor or transmission was actually defective. You mislead them because you didn't make your point clearly enough. Your message was not clear and I ask you to do better.

Originally Posted by Throttle House Thomas

Also, (And I'm sure this will start an argument lol) The M2CS manual, DID indeed beat the G87 on the same tires.

Why would this start an argument over that, of all things? Does anyone think a base car should beat a CS? That would be a weird thing to "expect" IMO.

From interviews and specs, the base G87 is obviously positioned to be similar to the F87C, not the CS. (Which is why I don't think we'll get a G87C.)

[JustinHEMI]

TLDR

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by JustinHEMI

TLDR

Take the high road, Justin. Yes, I'm tsking you. Let's beef, lol.