[AWSAWS]

Has anyone had any experience with the traction control settings on their 3 series?

Full on is pretty restrictive but single push DTC does allow quite a bit of wheel spin. I understand that this allows more wheel spin before power is cut and that the DSC will brake individual wheels if the car is going sideways too much thanks to steering wheel position and accelerometers and wheels speed measurements. The question is how much? On snow it was pretty easy to get sideways on DTC mode. Full off was a whole different level. DSC is off. Even moving away slowly on snow spins the wheels very easy with a feathered throttle.

Yesterday trying to do a WOT pull in 3rd gear (single push DTC mode) from ~2000 rpm had the car squirming around. I bet in full TC/DSC off I'd have been sideways and in the barrier looking like an idiot. I felt confident that DTC would keep me safe. Is that confidence misplaced? Have people had close shaves even in DTC mode?

Any track or closed road experimentation?

It must be very tricky going WOT with traction control fully off.

[Wolf 335]

Let me just say that this topic has been covered in depth on many many occasions. It has literally been beaten to death, resurrected and then beaten to death again.

You will be able to find plenty of good reading material on the site.

Cheers.

[djgandy]

Single press - Let the wheels slip a little more before braking.
Full press - DSC off, you're kinda on your own. Driving car without DSC is not a very pleasant. Every bump or gust of wind really has an effect on the direction of the car.

A button cannot change weather conditions though, It's not a good time of year to be experimenting with how much power you can put down. Icy, gritty unmaintained roads are an accident waiting to happen.

[AWSAWS]

Has anyone spun out with a single DTC press mode?

Do you guys feel there's a need to gradually bring in the throttle while in single DTC mode or just go straight for full throttle? I imagine all TC off requires very careful use of the throttle.

[jackstrath]

pretty pointless post as i bet people have spun out with all the aids on , if you can drive its not a issue driving around with TC off , its prob the first thing i do when i get in my car turn it all off , only keep it on if im going long distance and want to use the cruse control

turn it to DTC go for a drive and let us know if you wrapped it or not

[Svothe]

Took DSC off the other day for a laugh in a huuuuge empty car park, half throttle on my 335d and the slightest turn and the car spun out full 180 as soon as the boost got on. Granted it was damp but was surprising how much power it was putting down without the DSC on.

[djgandy]

Originally Posted by AWSAWS

Has anyone spun out with a single DTC press mode?

Do you guys feel there's a need to gradually bring in the throttle while in single DTC mode or just go straight for full throttle? I imagine all TC off requires very careful use of the throttle.

The button does not redefine the laws of physics. If you try and hammer it out of a corner in the damp, you will likely lose the rear end. This happened to me before in 3rd at around 50mph. The conditions were fair but the road was slightly damp, it was a long exit corner and a slight change in the camber of the road and a little bump threw the back end out as a I put the power down. I recovered it, but driving up a road while pointing too much towards the kerb is not a nice experience. I'm just glad I wasn't in 2nd, in fact I wasn't even pushing hard at all, which goes to show, the condition of the road is what will hurt you.

The car can't predict the bumps in the road, it can only react to what it has from its directional sensors, if you go too far, even the electronics can't help you.

In anything but the dry there is no way to get all the power down, don't bother trying. And even then if you are above 350hp you can still get wheel spin in 2nd.

[AWSAWS]

I've experienced slides on a snow\ice covered road, on purpose drifting to experience the effect with full TC off and single DTC press. It doesn't feel very risky in DTC mode that the car will completely spin out as I imagine it could in full TC DSC off mode.

I drive with a single press of DTC every time. I get wheel spin in 3rd and 4th but it's very controlled. I was just wanting to know if that was being overconfident.

[djgandy]

If you are going in a straight line then you are unlikely to get yourself in a mess, assuming that you don't have a limited slip diff. Without traction control the wheel with the least resistance turns the most, and you end up not putting power down. This forms the basis of the electronic diff. By breaking the free spinning wheel it is equalising the resistance in an attempt to get the diff to transmit more power to the wheel that has traction, rather than less while also trying to get the free spinning wheel moving again. With a LSD the wheel that has traction can keep putting power down (to some extent), so it is actually more dangerous as a lot of power can go to a single wheel.

Full DSC off mode is quite hairy, but you get used to it. My unit went dud and I had to drive to work for 2 weeks without it. It's not fun, especially on an m25 trip, but that is because you have to deal with all the crap you're not used to having to think about and that isn't fun about driving.

[mob17]

I always drive with a single push of DTC. I feel it gives me more cornering grip until the rear slips, compared to the grip with it standard, which cuts power earlier.

I've gotten used to losing the rear with DTC. Whenever it happens i always correct it by steering and sometimes let off the throttle. Quite fun and safe at the same time really. Obviously safe up to a point, for eg if you did something silly like turning way too much for your speed, im sure the DSC wouldn't save you.

You should try going on one of those skid pan driving days. Will give you a safe place to practice and learn from the instructers.

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by mob17

I always drive with a single push of DTC. I feel it gives me more cornering grip until the rear slips, compared to the grip with it standard, which cuts power earlier.

I've gotten used to losing the rear with DTC. Whenever it happens i always correct it by steering and sometimes let off the throttle. Quite fun and safe at the same time really. Obviously safe up to a point, for eg if you did something silly like turning way too much for your speed, im sure the DSC wouldn't save you.

You should try going on one of those skid pan driving days. Will give you a safe place to practice and learn from the instructers.

Thanks, yes I have been looking around for skid pan sessions. I enjoyed the DSC demos. Instructors actually tell drivers not to correct a skid with dsc on apparently as correcting a skid confuses the system for where you want to go.

[AWSAWS]

[alex-qts]

drive with mine on most of the time, especially in this weather. Have recently started pressing the button once when I want to open her up a bit.

Just fitted a new set of Michelin PSS all round, and they are taking a while to bed in, tried a WOT in 3rd/4th today and still no grip / spinning up. Temperature was +3deg with no ice, but soaking wet roads. Hoping they will get better as they wear in.

[Greg330]

I love the comments that judge driving talent by turning it all off! This time of year road conditions are a big factor for me and I like the added protection it provides.

To your point though, since I've fitted the JB4 it is a different beast. When driving hard I use DTC on as I don't like the fact it doesn't have an LSD. DTC allows a nice amount of slip and I find it isn't intrusive when driving quick and not show boating!

I've also tested it on wet roundabouts and wide open spaces and DTC has always cut in to stop a full spin.

But one last thing, if you do go full retard nothing will save you!!!

[surrey 335i]

I've had a few 335i and its a shame they don't have a proper diff (lsd) as there are pretty lame without it.
With the traction control fully off (hold and press for 10 secs) the car will just spin up the unloaded (inside rear) wheel. With dtc off stage one it does not allow much slip before the ecu cuts the power. These modern 3 series are great at putting down lots of grip even when trying to unstick the rear - pretty much idiot proof unless you drive like a ham fisted idiot.

My old E30 M3 and E34 M5 would fish tail down the road if you jumped on the throttle while driving in a straight line in the damp in 2nd or 3 rd gear.

[AWSAWS]

Well I feel pretty confident that DSC will save me from a full 180 turn should the wheels spin alot thanks to the rotational forces on the car being monitored. Just wanted to be sure.

Yes I know not to go absolutely mad as if I'm on a set of tracks.

[zltm089]

I drive with the aids fully off... not "showing off" or saying i'm some kind of racing driver... just personal preference....

Not sure where this " i drive with DSC fully off = i got a big dick and i'm a racing driver" comes from...

[JulesM]

I've only had mine a few months but drive with everything on all the time. My Nissan is very predictable when it steps out but I'm not to keen to experiment with a big heavy bmw! Not in this weather anyway, I quite fancy taking it on one of those airfield car control days so I can find out it's limits.

The traction control quicks in a lot with the damp weather and over 700nm of torque.

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by JulesM

I've only had mine a few months but drive with everything on all the time. My Nissan is very predictable when it steps out but I'm not to keen to experiment with a big heavy bmw! Not in this weather anyway, I quite fancy taking it on one of those airfield car control days so I can find out it's limits.

The traction control quicks in a lot with the damp weather and over 700nm of torque.

700nm, you guys could do with an 8 speed box, maybe a 10 speed like VW made.

[mob17]

Cant wait to get an lsd with better bushings and arms....

[AWSAWS]

Originally Posted by mob17

Cant wait to get an lsd with better bushings and arms....

Will you ever go on a track? I may not but I want the same. As the car gets older, I'll be more and more likely to do it. I'm just worried about damaging it. i.e. Spin out and hit something or have someone drive into me.

[mob17]

Originally Posted by AWSAWS

Will you ever go on a track? I may not but I want the same. As the car gets older, I'll be more and more likely to do it. I'm just worried about damaging it. i.e. Spin out and hit something or have someone drive into me.

I think you're worrying too much! With an LSD yes you will lose the rear but the thing is it will be a predictive loss, and in time you will be able to control it. Plus if you have the DTC on one press it will still kick in. At stock the rear sort of snaps out, but getting an LSD, with some solid sf bushes (NOT M3 ones) and m3 arms, i believe it will make the rear a lot more controllable with practice.

I bought the car 2 years ago with the intention of going to a track, but i would just like to sort a few bits out first, mainly rear suspension. Springs/dampers are done so for the track at minimum i'd want an LSD and aluminium subframe bushes. But also would like M3 arms and stiffer rear springs, maybe diff bushes. List is pretty long lol.

I definitely want to go this summer no matter how much i get done. Otherwise i'll be waiting forever!