[parrnan]

Yes, why the hell BMW is putting speed limiter on its cars ?

I just sold my Porsche 911 turbo last summer and beleive me there was noooooo speed limiter on it. Before that I owned a Boxster S and an old 1988 944 turbo and none of them has that stupid thing...



So why BMW do put that none sense on their ultimate driving machines ???

Can it be removed by an aftermarket improved software such as Dinan for example ?

[MKSixer]

BMW, Audi, and MBZ have a, "gentleman's agreement" to limit their cars to 155 in order to stop the TUV from poking it's regulatory nose into their business and mandate broader speed limits on the vehicles. If I remember correctly, 155 mph, indicated, in top gear is what they landed upon together. Please keep this in mind.

Before being derestricted, my E63 M6 would blow through this number and hit 176 mph, indicated in 6th before I slowed. I heard from other M5/M6 board members that the car will no longer accelerate in 7th gear if it is not derestricted. My car is now derestricted but I have not gotten beyond 6th gear (184 mph, max at 8250 rpm) but one day I will! This type of performance in the 2nd to last gear in cars with enough performance to reach these numbers is fairly typical.

Lastly, the reason that Porsche has bypassed this idiocy, oops, I meant these well though out regulations, is that they are deemed to manufacture in numbers low enough to not be a general hazard on the roads with this type of performance.

I hope this helps!

Someone please jump in and help me out if I am misremembering.

Cheers-mk

P.S. And yes, the cars can be delimited by tuners such as Dinan, Evolve, etc. Disclaimer: I own parts from the aforementioned companies but leave the choice for your upgrades to you.

[shoei]

Pretty damn informative...

You could also add LAWYERS to that group... We're a sue happy country - after we injure / remove a limb from innocent bystanders as we launch our cars into a tree, our families will sue the manufacturers for producing such a dangerous vehicle without a warning label or calorie label...

[djDori_C]

Originally Posted by shoei

Pretty damn informative...

You could also add LAWYERS to that group... We're a sue happy country - after we injure / remove a limb from innocent bystanders as we launch our cars into a tree, our families will sue the manufacturers for producing such a dangerous vehicle without a warning label or calorie label...

Never thought of that... Good call

[shoei]

Originally Posted by djDori_C

Never thought of that... Good call

That's why North America has a ton of features turned off... Like, our windows can't roll up when the door is open (who guillotined themselves to ruin it for everyone else??!!) reverse when door is open, mirrors don't fold in by itself when locked, and so on and so forth... Which can all be turned on with a simple coding...

Precautions for future lawsuits or repercussions from previous lawsuits...

Murica !!!

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

BMW, Audi, and MBZ have a, "gentleman's agreement" to limit their cars to 155 in order to stop the TUV from poking it's regulatory nose into their business and mandate broader speed limits on the vehicles. If I remember correctly, 155 mph, indicated, in top gear is what they landed upon together. Please keep this in mind.

Before being derestricted, my E63 M6 would blow through this number and hit 176 mph, indicated in 6th before I slowed. I heard from other M5/M6 board members that the car will no longer accelerate in 7th gear if it is not derestricted. My car is now derestricted but I have not gotten beyond 6th gear (184 mph, max at 8250 rpm) but one day I will! This type of performance in the 2nd to last gear in cars with enough performance to reach these numbers is fairly typical.

Lastly, the reason that Porsche has bypassed this idiocy, oops, I meant these well though out regulations, is that they are deemed to manufacture in numbers low enough to not be a general hazard on the roads with this type of performance.

I hope this helps!

Someone please jump in and help me out if I am misremembering.

Cheers-mk

P.S. And yes, the cars can be delimited by tuners such as Dinan, Evolve, etc. Disclaimer: I own parts from the aforementioned companies but leave the choice for your upgrades to you.

Right on the money! That is the reason. All of the German manufactures have this agreement, except for Porsche, Alpina and Ruf.

BMW's actually have three levels of speed limiters...

cars with M-Sport option = 250 kph
cars w/o M-Sport option = 210 kph

///M cars = 265 kph

Note: for ///M cars, IF you go to one of BMW's Driving Schools, after you graduate, you get a code/letter, that any BMW dealer can update your engine SW... this will increase your top speed to 280 kph.

2nd Note:for non M cars... IF you have M-Sport you will also have a little known option code #840 "speed synconation"

3rd Note: what your speedo reports may or may not be your actual real speed. Its a German law that all cars speedo's MUST report a higher speed that you are actually traveling at... so when you are speeding YOU know you are doing so! Also the Polizei always take 3kph off your offense, but that's another story.


I took this pic of my 135i when I first bought it. While the speedo reported 250 kph, my Navi(TomTom) said I was traveling at "only" 240 kph. After I purchased a German SW tune... my V-Max was "open" and that fastest I have been able to "see" on my Navi(TomTom) was a 285 kph. I've been told that a "tuned" 135i should be able to do a "real" 194 kph. But that's just too damn fast for my liking.



Also... while the "gentleman's agreement" is set at 250 kph... for many years MB and Audi have been "fudging" with that limit... for AMG and RS cars... they seem to have a 265 to 275 kph top speed limiter.

Most tuning companies over here offer SW that codes out that speed limiter. But its not cheap at around 1K euros. Most aftermarket tunes cost roughly the same price(or more!)... so most Germans just buy a reputable tune for ~1K euros that also includes no V-Max limiter(open).


Dackel

[MKSixer]

Going to driving school is worth the cost and the extended top-speed is just a bonus.

Do the school! You won't regret it at all!!

Cheers-mk

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by shoei

Pretty damn informative...

You could also add LAWYERS to that group... We're a sue happy country - after we injure / remove a limb from innocent bystanders as we launch our cars into a tree, our families will sue the manufacturers for producing such a dangerous vehicle without a warning label or calorie label...

See below:

From a magazine excerpt...

A fifteen-year old California boy who stole and crashed a 1987 Porsche 928S later told an officer, "I had it as fast as it would go, and I wasn't letting off." The officer estimated the car was traveling "about 200 mph" at the time of the accident. When the Porsche left the road, it flew 65 to 75 yards, knocked down a pine tree, sliced neatly through two mature cedar trees - ten feet above the ground - and concluded it's flight by leveling a maple tree with an eighteen-inch trunk. Examining the wreckage, a reporter for the Anne Arundel County Sun spotted the nearby remains of a compact-disc player and the Bon Jovi CD Slippery When Wet, whose last track is "Wild in the Streets."

You can't make this crap up!

Cheers-mk

[catchm3ifyoucann]

Why is this even a concern? You shouldn't be trying to max out your car on public roads.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by catchm3ifyoucann

Why is this even a concern? You shouldn't be trying to max out your car on public roads.

Race tracks, Autobahn, etc.

And how about getting maximum value for the money spent?

My M6 limited to 155 mph cost approximately $0.68 per mph per $1,000 spent at the sticker price of $106K. My M6 totally derestricted to the theoretical top speed (217 mph) cost approximately $0.49 per mph per $1000 spent. This is clearly a value proposition that cannot be ignored and must be taken seriously by any enthusiast.

Cheers-mk

[catchm3ifyoucann]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

Race tracks, Autobahn, etc.

And how about getting maximum value for the money spent?

My M6 limited to 155 mph cost approximately $0.68 per mph per $1,000 spent at the sticker price of $106K. My M6 totally derestricted to the theoretical top speed (217 mph) cost approximately $0.49 per mph per $1000 spent. This is clearly a value proposition that cannot be ignored and must be taken seriously by any enthusiast.

Cheers-mk

I should have been more clear, a speed limiter is appropriate for public roads given the fact these are high performance vehicles that should be taken seriously.

On a side note are you really going to purchase a $100k+ car and complain about the difference paid per mph being .19 cents?

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by catchm3ifyoucann

I should have been more clear, a speed limiter is appropriate for public roads given the fact these are high performance vehicles that should be taken seriously.

On a side note are you really going to purchase a $100k+ car and complain about the difference paid per mph being .19 cents?

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by catchm3ifyoucann

I should have been more clear, a speed limiter is appropriate for public roads given the fact these are high performance vehicles that should be taken seriously.

On a side note are you really going to purchase a $100k+ car and complain about the difference paid per mph being .19 cents?

I really don't think that a speed limiter is appropriate for public roads. How is the speed limit decided? Who decides? What are the criteria? I think a car should be made exactly as it's designers intended to be made, within current safety regulations for the country that the end user will reside in. I digress here a bit but look at speed limits...they are set in a really arbitrary fashion. Scientifically, they should be set by the 85th percentile rule with allowances made for anomalies such as school zones, children playing in rural areas, etc.

Secondarily, as in most high performance situations, people work on the wrong end of the equation. How about more stringent requirements for the brakes? Tires anyone? How about suspension? Nothing is more dangerous than a heaving, lurching, overpowered, under suspended and under braked car. They are a downright hazard.

Lastly, let's make a drivers license more than just a sheet of paper with a plastic covering. Let's put some actually training behind the document and bring some skill back to the activity.

And hey, that 0.19 adds up!!! C'mon...every penny counts!!

Cheers-mk

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by Dackelone

Note: for ///M cars, IF you go to one of BMW's Driving Schools, after you graduate, you get a code/letter, that any BMW dealer can update your engine SW... this will increase your top speed to 280 kph.

Dackel

That may be true in Germany/other parts of Europe, I don't think it's true in the USA.

Originally Posted by MKSixer

P.S. And yes, the cars can be delimited by tuners such as Dinan, Evolve, etc. Disclaimer: I own parts from the aforementioned companies but leave the choice for your upgrades to you.

At least on the F8x series (M3/4 and M5/6) it does need to be a full ECU tune, not a piggyback to do this. Not sure if the M5/6 ECU has been broken, but the F8x M3/4 has, although it does require the ECU be removed from the engine, and a bench tune done, as opposed to real time tuning. Either way, though, the speed limiter can be removed via ECU tune, but not a piggyback tune.

Originally Posted by catchm3ifyoucann

Why is this even a concern? You shouldn't be trying to max out your car on public roads.

Some of us actually take our ///M cars to tracks where we can use the full potential.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

That may be true in Germany/other parts of Europe, I don't think it's true in the USA.




At least on the F8x series (M3/4 and M5/6) it does need to be a full ECU tune, not a piggyback to do this. Not sure if the M5/6 ECU has been broken, but the F8x M3/4 has, although it does require the ECU be removed from the engine, and a bench tune done, as opposed to real time tuning. Either way, though, the speed limiter can be removed via ECU tune, but not a piggyback tune.




Some of us actually take our ///M cars to tracks where we can use the full potential.

I have an E63 M6...the V-10. It was broken long ago and most tunes are remote.
Cheers-mk

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

I have an E63 M6...the V-10. It was broken long ago and most tunes are remote.
Cheers-mk

I did explicitly mention that I was talking about the latest M cars, the F8x versions.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

I did explicitly mention that I was talking about the latest M cars, the F8x versions.

Yes!
I was just clarifying for all concerned...this is an internet forum after all!!

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

I did explicitly mention that I was talking about the latest M cars, the F8x versions.

My apologies, I was having a brain fart, I also meant the F10/12/13 M5/6

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by Dave 90TT

My apologies, I was having a brain fart, I also meant the F10/12/13 M5/6

No need to apologize. I knew precisely what you meant, I was just clarifying for the good of the forum!

How are things in sunny San Diego? I used to work biotech in LaJolla.

Cheers-mk

[Twixboy]

Originally Posted by shoei

That's why North America has a ton of features turned off... Like, our windows can't roll up when the door is open (who guillotined themselves to ruin it for everyone else??!!) reverse when door is open, mirrors don't fold in by itself when locked, and so on and so forth... Which can all be turned on with a simple coding...

Precautions for future lawsuits or repercussions from previous lawsuits...

Murica !!!

What's so dangerous about this one? My Audi has an option in the MMI (basic system menu) to fold up your mirrors automatically. It's actually set ON by default.

[shoei]

Originally Posted by Twixboy

What's so dangerous about this one? My Audi has an option in the MMI (basic system menu) to fold up your mirrors automatically. It's actually set ON by default.

Mirrors on the bmw don't fold out until you hit 21 mph... I'm sure someone reversing has / will run over a child or something...

[Mandi90TT]

Originally Posted by MKSixer

How are things in sunny San Diego? I used to work biotech in LaJolla.

Cheers-mk

Actually just retired from active USMC service, and moved to Colorado. But San Diego is great...except for the taxes, the traffic, and the cost of living...