[paliknight]

Hello everyone,

I dont post much since Im still new here, but I figured I'd ask the far more experienced car gurus. I have owned BMW's for a bit over 3 years, (I know, not long) but they have honestly been the least problematic cars I have owned, and Ive owned, Acuras, Nissans, Subarus, Infiniti's, Fords, Jeep, etc.

I just took delivery of an M4 last week at the PC. I am in love, as I figured I woud be. My cousin though, was looking at the C63, or S63 AMG, but he was wondering about reliability. I constantly hear how horrible Mercedes and Audi (and BMW) quality is, as far as problems (not parts), but most people dont really know what theyre talking about. What Im basically asking is, are Audi and Mercedes reliable to where it wouldnt spend more time in the shop than the garage?

[overcoil]

I have 2 mercedes c classes 1998 and 2002, owned each one for over ten years. Built very well, solid, few easy annoyances under warranty; window regulator, alarm, esp.
At 100,000 miles; alternator, MAF.
But both were actually fast for their low power and handled dry and snow conditions at a very high level.

But my M235 has been flawless.

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

I have 2 mercedes c classes 1998 and 2002, owned each one for over ten years. Built very well, solid, few easy annoyances under warranty; window regulator, alarm, esp.
At 100,000 miles; alternator, MAF.
But both were actually fast for there low power and handled dry and snow conditions at a very high level.

But my M235 has been flawless.

thank you very much for chiming in. I appreciate your input.

[Alfisti]

Anecdotal evidence is poor, read up on the stats. Keep in mind the cost of parts and work is far higher than it is with a regular car and one of the big killers for the three germans are electrical bugs.

[Drtsk]

I've had in my lifetime, 5 Bmw, 5 MB, 3 Porsche, 1 Range Rover.
They are all very reliable, except the rover, if you do the proper maintenance. Unfortunately, so folks don't realize that buying the car is only half of the battle.

[Ezio]

IMO any modern car is built pretty well. Think about it, if they made such bad cars how are they still in business.

I would have no problem buying benz or audi.
every car on the road isnt made to last forever. So after years and miles on average a German car overall might see the shop more than a Toyota. But i dont think it makes it less reliable. just requires more maintenance to run more premium car.

Also i think its important to buy new or slightly used with time on warranty still.

[lens]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Hello everyone,

I dont post much since Im still new here, but I figured I'd ask the far more experienced car gurus. I have owned BMW's for a bit over 3 years, (I know, not long) but they have honestly been the least problematic cars I have owned, and Ive owned, Acuras, Nissans, Subarus, Infiniti's, Fords, Jeep, etc.

I just took delivery of an M4 last week at the PC. I am in love, as I figured I woud be. My cousin though, was looking at the C63, or S63 AMG, but he was wondering about reliability. I constantly hear how horrible Mercedes and Audi (and BMW) quality is, as far as problems (not parts), but most people dont really know what theyre talking about. What Im basically asking is, are Audi and Mercedes reliable to where it wouldnt spend more time in the shop than the garage?

M cars tend to be a tad more reliable. I've known a couple friends who own M3-M6 and they follow their regular maintenance schedule, one of my buddies has a 2014 M3 with 145,000KM, and has no problems so far.

[bueller]

Originally Posted by paliknight

Hello everyone,
What Im basically asking is, are Audi and Mercedes reliable to where it wouldnt spend more time in the shop than the garage?

A friend of mine drives a C63 AMG and she has had a few issues with it. Minor things really. I hate driving it as the transmission feels like they took it out of a delivery truck.

I have had several A4s and I found that as I actually drive sporty cars in a sporty manner, I had issues with my second A4s control arm bushings. They were replaced under warrantee @ 45k then went again 20k miles later, I got rid of the car.

I had the HPFP issue in my 135i, My 1M has been problem free, it has a few were issues that the dealer said they were unable to address, when you turn right at speed, for example taking a ramp onto the freeway at around 60 -70 mph there is a loud ticking sound from the right front wheel. They said that they could not diagnose the problem because they don't drive customers cars like that. The LSD sometimes clunks when getting back on the power after cresting a hill, again at speed.

The problem is that with complicated cars, unless dealerships receive a 'bulletin' from the manufacturer, describing the problem, the method for diagnosis and instructions on what parts to order and replace, I have found they can't actually fix much.

The head of accounting where I work leases a silver Hyundai SUVs. and gets a new one every three years, I have been at the company 10 years and he has had three of them. He has had no issues with them and they are cheap transportation. I enjoy German cars and motorcycles, I pay more and maintaining them is more expensive and more frequent than the Hyundai SUV option, however I don't think I would be giggling like a schoolgirl while hitting twisty roads in my Santa Fe.

I had a TL I bought new in 2006 before the Ironman grill and canoe rear, it was comfortable enough, but no fun, although it only needed gas and oil the whole time I owned it, it was flawless from a reliability standpoint.

I have found Porsches really reliable, I had a Touareg (basically the same car as the Cayenne) for 3 years and it was solid, reasonably fun to drive for what it was and super comfortable on the highway. The only issue I had was the shitty trade in value as TDIs are not so popular any more for some reason.

My take is that if I am going to own a German car, I will do so as long as it is under warranty. If I were interested in driving the same car for 20 years (which I am not), I would get an older Carolla or Honda. German cars out of warrantee are like trophy wives, very expensive, and you don't know when you will tire of the expense and drama and be forced to break up and go your own way.

B.

[lens]

Originally Posted by bueller

A friend of mine drives a C63 AMG and she has had a few issues with it. Minor things really. I hate driving it as the transmission feels like they took it out oaf a delivery truck.

I have had several A4s and I found that as I actually drive sporty cars in a sporty manner, I had issues with my second A4s control arm bushings. They were replaced under warrantee @ 45k then went again 20k miles later, I got rid of the car.

I had the HPFP issue in my 135i, My 1M has been problem free, it has a few were issues that the dealer said they were unable to address, when you turn right at speed, for example taking a ramp onto the freeway at around 60 -70 mph there is a loud ticking sound from the right front wheel. They said that they could not diagnose the problem because they don't drive customers cars like that. The LSD sometimes clunks when getting back on the power after cresting a hill, again at speed.

The problem is that with complicated cars, unless dealerships receive a 'bulletin' from the manufacturer, describing the problem, the method for diagnosis and instructions on what parts to order and replace, I have found they can't actually fix much.

The head of accounting where I work leases a silver Hyundai SUVs. and gets a new one every three years, I have been at the company 10 years and he has had three of them. He has had no issues with them and they are cheap transportation. I enjoy German cars and motorcycles, I pay more and maintaining them is more expensive and more frequent than the Hyundai SUV option, however I don't think I would be giggling like a schoolgirl while hitting twisty roads in my Santa Fe.

I had a TL I bought new in 2006 before the Ironman grill and canoe rear, it was comfortable enough, but no fun, although it only needed gas and oil the whole time I owned it, it was flawless from a reliability standpoint.

I have found Porsches really reliable, I had a Touareg (basically the same car as the Cayenne) for 3 years and it was solid, reasonably fun to drive for what it was and super comfortable on the highway. The only issue I had was the shitty trade in value as TDIs are not so popular any more for some reason.

My take is that if I am going to own a German car, I will do so as long as it is under warranty. If I were interested in driving the same car for 20 years (which I am not), I would get an older Carolla or Honda. German cars out of warrantee are like trophy wives, very expensive, and you don't know when you will tire of the expense and drama and be forced to break up and go your own way.

B.

^Agreed.

German vehicles tend to last up to a max of 5-7 years, rarely 10 years without spending a little bit to maintain them. Compared to japanese vehicles which last 10 years+ easily, people who buy Audi, Mercedes, BMW should already know that if they want to keep their cars running 3-5 years after warranty expires, they will spend a bit to maintain them more often.

[bueller]

Originally Posted by chaungo

M cars tend to be a tad more reliable. I've known a couple friends who own M3-M6 and they follow their regular maintenance schedule, one of my buddies has a 2014 M3 with 145,000KM, and has no problems so far.

Hope he is not leasing! That is crazy mileage!

[lens]

Originally Posted by bueller

Hope he is not leasing! That is crazy mileage!

Nope, he financed the car and bought it outright a year ago after he saved up the money to pay the rest off. This mileage that I gave was about a year ago when I was in Ontario. He probably has close to 180,000KM by now.

[bueller]

Originally Posted by chaungo

Nope, he financed the car and bought it outright a year ago after he saved up the money to pay the rest off. This mileage that I gave was about a year ago when I was in Ontario. He probably has close to 180,000KM by now.

Hope he loves the car, the trade in value is going to be horrendous!

B.

[Jai 302]

My AMG has been flawless so far but I wouldn't risk keeping it once the warranty runs out. Same goes for BMW. I don't have much experience with Audi except a TT that I had for a few months so I can't comment on that.

[paliknight]

thank you everyone for your responses. I guess Im not keeping my M4 past 4 years lol. Out of curiosity though, I have seen E46 and even E36 (I think?) M3's that still look flawless over ten years later. Is it possible they have paid a significant amount of money to maintain these cars?

[Kyokio]

Originally Posted by paliknight

thank you everyone for your responses. I guess Im not keeping my M4 past 4 years lol. Out of curiosity though, I have seen E46 and even E36 (I think?) M3's that still look flawless over ten years later. Is it possible they have paid a significant amount of money to maintain these cars?

fyi early model e46 m3s (2002-03) had rod bearing issues and e46s in general have subframe issues

[bueller]

Originally Posted by paliknight

thank you everyone for your responses. I guess Im not keeping my M4 past 4 years lol. Out of curiosity though, I have seen E46 and even E36 (I think?) M3's that still look flawless over ten years later. Is it possible they have paid a significant amount of money to maintain these cars?

Thing is, there are some cars that are worth the aggravation, to me anyway. E46 M3 in my books would be one of those cars. Probably not a good choice as a daily driver, still I would put up with the aggravation to keep her perfect and enjoy on desolate interesting roads on a Wednesday afternoons.

Where I spend my winter in Arizona, there is a young guy that drives a pretty nice looking E30 M3, alpine white with the stock BBS cross spoke wheels. Whenever I see him, I think, cool a young guy is in to cars, and I am tempted to catch up to him to take a closer look, it is beautiful.

Something like an E30 and E46 will hold their values, be special to drive and put a smile on your face not only while enjoying the drive but also just parked in you garage. A new stripper F30 328 can be cheap on a lease, and while not feeling as special as an older more pure car, can be plenty fun! This is interesting. Depends on your priorities. My motorcycle spends its off season time in my living room, so I am a little biased.

On the other hand, there is a reason you can pick up a 5 - 7 year old S class with all the bells and whistles that retailed for $130k when new for almost free now. The cost of anything major going wrong will cost a factor of .25 - .5 of your purchase price for the car. Generally the people these cars appeal to have the dough to lease a new one.

Nothing against Mercedes, they make beautiful cars that are engineered in the German tradition of Jurassic Park, they spare no expense. A friend of mine has the S 63 AMG, while a less than exciting driving experience, I can appreciate the workmanship and quality. It is super comfortable to cruise around LA in, it is a nice quiet place to be!

B.

[lens]

Originally Posted by bueller

Thing is, there are some cars that are worth the aggravation, to me anyway. E46 M3 in my books would be one of those cars. Probably not a good choice as a daily driver, still I would put up with the aggravation to keep her perfect and enjoy on desolate interesting roads on a Wednesday afternoons.

Where I spend my winter in Arizona, there is a young guy that drives a pretty nice looking E30 M3, alpine white with the stock BBS cross spoke wheels. Whenever I see him, I think, cool a young guy is in to cars, and I am tempted to catch up to him to take a closer look, it is beautiful.

Something like an E30 and E46 will hold their values, be special to drive and put a smile on your face not only while enjoying the drive but also just parked in you garage. A new stripper F30 328 can be cheap on a lease, and while not feeling as special as an older more pure car, can be plenty fun! This is interesting. Depends on your priorities. My motorcycle spends its off season time in my living room, so I am a little biased.

On the other hand, there is a reason you can pick up a 5 - 7 year old S class with all the bells and whistles that retailed for $130k when new for almost free now. The cost of anything major going wrong will cost a factor of .25 - .5 of your purchase price for the car. Generally the people these cars appeal to have the dough to lease a new one.

Nothing against Mercedes, they make beautiful cars that are engineered in the German tradition of Jurassic Park, they spare no expense. A friend of mine has the S 63 AMG, while a less than exciting driving experience, I can appreciate the workmanship and quality. It is super comfortable to cruise around LA in, it is a nice quiet place to be!

B.

I test drove a S63 AMG Coupe in Montreal for shits and giggles (I asked the dealer while my buddy was looking around for a used C300, I was surprised when he said "sure") and I regret every moment of that drive.

Because I can't afford the damn car (300,000$ after quebec taxes, fully loaded minus carbon ceramic) and I HIGHLY love the interior. I drove it while it was getting sunset and good god the ambient lighting, I can't even tell you how much I wanted to drive forever. It was quiet, the sound system was unbelievable.

After the drive, I regretted everything, my puny 335i compared to that car.

Good news is my buddy managed to get a used C300 with 50,000KM for about 26,000$.