[BMW F22]

Lately I have been contacted by a few firms recruiting sales agents (Prudential, New York Life, etc.).

I talked to them both over the phone and in person because I was curious and wanted to find out more. A few weeks ago a family friend who is a NY Life agent took me to go see a managing partner at a local NYL branch. The family friend had suggested that I try it out 4 or 5 years back but I wasn't interested then. I have been thinking about maybe going back into sales for sometime now, hence I expressed interest and he took me to see the managingg partner.

Anyway, the partner gave me a nice speech, made a lot of good points/references, and talked up the career. I would like to give it a try but there is a catch: for the first year or two, the income would be about $50k (training allowance plus commission by meeting the monthly minimums). That is not to say that I can't make more. Obviously the more deals I close the more I would make. If I continue to do well I could be in the hundreds by year 3. The partner supposedly makes $1.2M a year and has been in the business for 15-16 years.

Anyhow, was curious if anyone here would go for it or if you guys have any advice or comment on how easy/difficult this career is.

PS- I have a diverse background with about 4 years of experience in sales. Last 3-4 years I have been in Finance.

[bimmette]

In my opinion, sales jobs pay too low considering the stress you will have to meet goals. But I'm just not naturally a sales person. I recall you don't think you're an introvert, but from what I know of you, I don't really think you're the sales type.

[STOOF]

Ive been in some form of sales for about 17yrs now. Ranging from ice cream man to Cell phones to Ins. But more serious sales jobs for the past 10-11.

I sold Life Ins for a no name company for about a year and a half. Full commission, no draw or salary or benefits. Thats an advantage of the bigger ins companies.

Can you make well into the 6 figures a few years in, sure. But you can also make nothing.

Personally I hated "cold calling" and the pressure management puts on you when you don't produce. Thats a downside to sales, you're only as good as the number you put up TODAY. Yesterday is in the past. Consistency is king.

Currently, I work at a very large commercial bank, started as a personal banker and moved my way up to Business Relationship Manager. I have a healthy base/full benefits and get sales incentives. Best of both worlds IMO. And as I move up my base will go up as will bonuses. Now will I make a million a year 15 years into it? Certainly not. But am I making 6 figures?

Just my 0.02 based on my life experiences.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by bimmette

In my opinion, sales jobs pay too low considering the stress you will have to meet goals. But I'm just not naturally a sales person. I recall you don't think you're an introvert, but from what I know of you, I don't really think you're the sales type.

It's funny. I was taking a walk today while listening to "quiet" audio book and thought of myself sometimes being introverted and at other times extroverted. Then I remembered a test you posted on here a while back. I got ambivert then. Took the test by Daniel Pink (author of "Drive") today and got ambivert again.

So I googled it and saw a bunch of articles saying that the best leaders and salespeople are actually neither introverts or extroverts, but rather ambiverts. A study done by some professor showed that ambiverts earn more in sales jobs than the other two personality types.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by STOOF

Ive been in some form of sales for about 17yrs now. Ranging from ice cream man to Cell phones to Ins. But more serious sales jobs for the past 10-11.

I sold Life Ins for a no name company for about a year and a half. Full commission, no draw or salary or benefits. Thats an advantage of the bigger ins companies.

Can you make well into the 6 figures a few years in, sure. But you can also make nothing.

Personally I hated "cold calling" and the pressure management puts on you when you don't produce. Thats a downside to sales, you're only as good as the number you put up TODAY. Yesterday is in the past. Consistency is king.

Currently, I work at a very large commercial bank, started as a personal banker and moved my way up to Business Relationship Manager. I have a healthy base/full benefits and get sales incentives. Best of both worlds IMO. And as I move up my base will go up as will bonuses. Now will I make a million a year 15 years into it? Certainly not. But am I making 6 figures?

Just my 0.02 based on my life experiences.

I spoke to another managing partner on the phone and he said that he doesn't like his agents making cold calls. There are other, more effective ways he said. Who knows...I'm making good money now so the $50k a year for a while is a big cut. BUT, no other careers cam have exponential growth like sales.

[STOOF]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

I spoke to another managing partner on the phone and he said that he doesn't like his agents making cold calls. There are other, more effective ways he said. Who knows...I'm making good money now so the $50k a year for a while is a big cut. BUT, no other careers cam have exponential growth like sales.

Its true, with some sales you are essentially uncapped, especially insurance. And you also get residuals, which is awesome. I still get $ from policies I sold 10 years ago. Albeit only about $14 every other month at this point. But I was only vested 10%. If I was still doing it I prob would be making 6 figs just in residuals.

[aktif8]

I can speak with some expertise on this - have been in sales for about 17 years. Presently a director for a cybersecurity software company.

Did about 6 years in the mortgage world as well, which isn't terribly dissimilar from insurance or financial advisory.

I come from a family of salespeople (my dad was at nyl for 30+ years on the investment management side.)

My brother, also a salesguy, tried insurance for a while. Had possibly the sweetest opportunity ever. His wife's cousin was planning on retiring in 5 years. Owner of a retail franchised branch of one of the big logos. My brother would inherit the entire book, he just had to learn the ropes. He made it 18 months. Hated everything about the business so much - and this is a guy that loves money - that another 3 years of apprenticeship, after which he would inherit a comfortable $350k / year biz was just too daunting.

My father loves to tell a story about how he was recruited once, internally, to move over into retail sales. The recruiter told him, and I quote "if you wouldn't be willing to sell something to your parents, knowing it wasn't the best deal, but you would make full commission, this isn't the job for you." he respectfully declined.

Having been in software now for about 6 years, I would suggest you investigate it versus retail b2c insurance. Happy to discuss more over pm!

[shadow191]

Yeah, when a life insurance company says they don't like you cold calling, that's basically code for you're going to be "warm calling" friends and family. That's pretty much NYL's playbook; wait for them to ask you to put together a list of 100 people.

If you want to get into sales, maybe go into the investment advisory side especially if you've been in finance. If you start at a decent wirehouse (UBS, MS, ML) you get an actual salary while training and not a draw against commissions. They really don't prescribe how you bring in fees, as long as you can, you're good. Slightly less pressure than starting out in life insurance as you get maybe 18 months to hit targets vs. 3-6 months.

It's good to see that life insurance sales hasn't changed. 10 years ago when I changed careers, I heard pretty much the same pitch from NYL - $50K at first, no cold calling, and the managing director I spoke to made $1MM+. I ended up going the other way and joined UBS. It was lots of fun, but sales can be stressful long term.

Originally Posted by BMW F22

I spoke to another managing partner on the phone and he said that he doesn't like his agents making cold calls. There are other, more effective ways he said. Who knows...I'm making good money now so the $50k a year for a while is a big cut. BUT, no other careers cam have exponential growth like sales.

[Sidewinderpb]

No personal experience, just from what I've observed:

My father was the #1 BMW salesman in the country for years. This was back when BMW actually recognized their employees, and took them all over the world on exotic, all expenses paid trips. After living his entire life on welfare, moving from place to place in an abusive family (dad gone; mother mentally ill; obese and hoarded food), and only having one set of clothes - he developed the drive that propelled him to the forefront of the industry. To be in sales, you need to have developed a hunger for that type of success. Say what you will about salesmen, but I respect that man above all. Again, this is simply what I've observed. Being in finance is a great position though (currently finance/Econ undergrad). Can't offer much input, but know that relative to the rest of society, you're doing great.

[hanszilla]

Originally Posted by BMW F22

Lately I have been contacted by a few firms recruiting sales agents (Prudential, New York Life, etc.).

I talked to them both over the phone and in person because I was curious and wanted to find out more. A few weeks ago a family friend who is a NY Life agent took me to go see a managing partner at a local NYL branch. The family friend had suggested that I try it out 4 or 5 years back but I wasn't interested then. I have been thinking about maybe going back into sales for sometime now, hence I expressed interest and he took me to see the managingg partner.

Anyway, the partner gave me a nice speech, made a lot of good points/references, and talked up the career. I would like to give it a try but there is a catch: for the first year or two, the income would be about $50k (training allowance plus commission by meeting the monthly minimums). That is not to say that I can't make more. Obviously the more deals I close the more I would make. If I continue to do well I could be in the hundreds by year 3. The partner supposedly makes $1.2M a year and has been in the business for 15-16 years.

Anyhow, was curious if anyone here would go for it or if you guys have any advice or comment on how easy/difficult this career is.

PS- I have a diverse background with about 4 years of experience in sales. Last 3-4 years I have been in Finance.

With a finance background why not do business development at a private equity firm that focuses on properties ? It's not really "hard" selling, but it's more of a relationship sales.

I think most sales that requires cold calling doesn't really guarantee a good outlook; everyone that entices you to do sales will always tell you that you can definitely make 6-7 figures, and while that is the truth you have to ask them; what kind of a number do you have to produce to make that kind of money?

I would do IT sales, CPG sales, pharmaceutical (don't want to be stuck working for a small no name manufacturer), or AD sales. I know for a fact CPG is stupid easy compared to other type of sales and you can make a lot if you meet your quota for certain stores that you're responsible for within a region. If I could it all over again, I would have gone a different route and went the software engineering route, get a SAP Super User certification, SAP trainer, etc, and then sell SAP consulting services; those guys make big bucks. They rival hedge fund associate (with less than 3 years of work) in terms of income.

Just my .02 man, I was a CFA for a bit and then I went to be an AM for an investment management company, I'm still an AM and alive with no suicidal tendencies yet. The money is good, but when shit hits the fan; it sucks.

Good luck.

[hanszilla]

Originally Posted by Sidewinderpb

No personal experience, just from what I've observed:

My father was the #1 BMW salesman in the country for years. This was back when BMW actually recognized their employees, and took them all over the world on exotic, all expenses paid trips. After living his entire life on welfare, moving from place to place in an abusive family (dad gone; mother mentally ill; obese and hoarded food), and only having one set of clothes - he developed the drive that propelled him to the forefront of the industry. To be in sales, you need to have developed a hunger for that type of success. Say what you will about salesmen, but I respect that man above all. Again, this is simply what I've observed. Being in finance is a great position though (currently finance/Econ undergrad). Can't offer much input, but know that relative to the rest of society, you're doing great.

I agree with you, to be good in sales you need to have your own motivation. The stigma of sales people of old (slick hair, loose gold suit, gold fake rolex watch, scent of cigarettes) are gone. Most other sales people (aside from the one going door to door to sell products) are normal people; I might even say that they are more of a consultant than a sales person. From personal experience the difference between a consultant and a sales person is one question; would you like to see a proposal and see if it would work with your future plans?

And cheers to being a finance/econ undergrad, I was a finance/global business mgmt undergrad.

[kprocivic]

Originally Posted by STOOF

Ive been in some form of sales for about 17yrs now. Ranging from ice cream man to Cell phones to Ins. But more serious sales jobs for the past 10-11.

I sold Life Ins for a no name company for about a year and a half. Full commission, no draw or salary or benefits. Thats an advantage of the bigger ins companies.

Can you make well into the 6 figures a few years in, sure. But you can also make nothing.

Personally I hated "cold calling" and the pressure management puts on you when you don't produce. Thats a downside to sales, you're only as good as the number you put up TODAY. Yesterday is in the past. Consistency is king.

Currently, I work at a very large commercial bank, started as a personal banker and moved my way up to Business Relationship Manager. I have a healthy base/full benefits and get sales incentives. Best of both worlds IMO. And as I move up my base will go up as will bonuses. Now will I make a million a year 15 years into it? Certainly not. But am I making 6 figures?

Just my 0.02 based on my life experiences.

Sounds like we work for the same firm.

[Sidewinderpb]

Originally Posted by hanszilla

With a finance background why not do business development at a private equity firm that focuses on properties ? It's not really "hard" selling, but it's more of a relationship sales.

Not trying to undermine you or anything; still in school, so forgive my ignorance if I'm incorrect. But isn't PE strictly buy-side?

[hanszilla]

Originally Posted by Sidewinderpb

Not trying to undermine you or anything; still in school, so forgive my ignorance if I'm incorrect. But isn't PE strictly buy-side?

No worries, no offense taken.

That is strictly correct, they do buy. What a lot of people don't really see is that most PE buy, then they steer the company's growth and performance, then sell for massive profit (assuming they do a complete buyout). Not all do so though, but that is some makes a lot of money in PE.

[Sidewinderpb]

Originally Posted by hanszilla

No worries, no offense taken.

That is strictly correct, they do buy. What a lot of people don't really see is that most PE buy, then they steer the company's growth and performance, then sell for massive profit (assuming they do a complete buyout). Not all do so though, but that is some makes a lot of money in PE.

Ah, makes sense. Must study harder!! Thanks

[sirdaft1]

Originally Posted by shadow191

Yeah, when a life insurance company says they don't like you cold calling, that's basically code for you're going to be "warm calling" friends and family. That's pretty much NYL's playbook; wait for them to ask you to put together a list of 100 people.

If you want to get into sales, maybe go into the investment advisory side especially if you've been in finance. If you start at a decent wirehouse (UBS, MS, ML) you get an actual salary while training and not a draw against commissions. They really don't prescribe how you bring in fees, as long as you can, you're good. Slightly less pressure than starting out in life insurance as you get maybe 18 months to hit targets vs. 3-6 months.

It's good to see that life insurance sales hasn't changed. 10 years ago when I changed careers, I heard pretty much the same pitch from NYL - $50K at first, no cold calling, and the managing director I spoke to made $1MM+. I ended up going the other way and joined UBS. It was lots of fun, but sales can be stressful long term.

Listen to this man ^^^^

The sobering truth is that you will be hard selling life insurance to friends and family for the first 2-3 years. Many of these relationships will be soured. It's a matter of fact. And statistically, most agents on the ground floor level leave the industry within the first few years. They build their small book of business within their network of friends and family and once they leave, that book is inherited by a senior agent within the agency. That said, if you can GRIND for the first 3-4 years and prove yourself, it can become a very lucrative career.

Being in the investment sales industry, some inside ball if you would have interest in the wealth management side of the business. I can't tell you how many older financial advisors there are on the hunt for a younger, driven, intelligent partner to help with their succession plan as they near retirement. It's unbelievable. The transition to fully inherit the advisors book of business could be a couple year long process, but the benefit would be that you would be working with existing clients (read: no cold calling), an existing revenue base (not having to kill what you eat) and allow you to focus on cultivating referrals versus hard selling friends and family.

[Haywood]

I've been in technology sales for 25 years. I have put in my time in the beginning. Cold calling, knocking on doors in snow storms, etc. Some down years (dot com meltdown, 2008), but I've worked my ass off and made a great career. It can be a very stressful job, but I don't know many jobs that allow the freedom and the ability to make the most money depending on how hard you work. Depending on the company, the harder you work, the more money you can make. It can be a direct correlation as opposed to sitting in an office next to someone who doesn't work as hard. Once you get the seniority, you can usually work from anywhere as long as you get your work done. My company offers unlimited vacation days so you're not tied down to just 2 weeks out of the year. Add in employee stock options in most large technology companies and you can consistently have good years.

Outside sales is not for anyone. You have to ask yourself are you willing to work constantly. Nights and weekends. Meet with clients. Put together presentation. Be willing to lose sometimes. It demands discipline and constantly pushing yourself, staying up on competition, new trends, services, etc. If you think you can, I say do it. I don't know what else I would do because I like the lifestyle too much. Good luck with your decision.

[Ric in RVA]

I would be keeping an eye out on this and ask any prospective employer how it affects their sales force and what their plans are. It will be a large impact on the industry...Lots of good in it and some huge traps that the attorneys I am sure are salivating over.



http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/newsroom/fsconflictsofinterest.html

[shadow191]

It's funny because I think many people have had a friend or relative who started selling life insurance and you realize you have to avoid them for the next 6 months to a year. You just never know when "let's get lunch" or "let's have coffee" becomes a pitch meeting. It's very awkward. I think the worst one I ever had to deal with was an acquaintance who got into the insurance business. He called me up and said he had an old 401k and IRA's he wanted to consolidate and get some advice on so we set up a meeting at my office. He showed up with a senior agent and they pitched me on the spot; I was so shocked I didn't even know what to do. The amount of desperation it takes to do that is astounding. I think he made it about 8 months in the business.

When I started in the '06, you could still cold call and get enough people to actually build a book. It sucked making a couple of hundred calls a day, but I honestly found it easier than pitching friends and family. These days I don't think I would get into the business unless it was the way you're talking about and working for a senior advisor. There's no way you can build a book now without that or serious connections. I did 5 years at wirehouses before moving into pension consulting and now plan management. The only people I know who are still in the business are ones who partnered up.

Having said all that, I still think sales is a great way to build skills that are applicable to lots of jobs. You learn to get your point across very quickly and overcome all sorts of objections. Pitching a sales prospect requires the exact same skills as pitching senior leadership. If you look at senior management at many companies, lots of them were in sales at some point. It's a different mentality being on the revenue generating side vs. being a cost center.

Originally Posted by sirdaft1

Listen to this man ^^^^

The sobering truth is that you will be hard selling life insurance to friends and family for the first 2-3 years. Many of these relationships will be soured. It's a matter of fact. And statistically, most agents on the ground floor level leave the industry within the first few years. They build their small book of business within their network of friends and family and once they leave, that book is inherited by a senior agent within the agency. That said, if you can GRIND for the first 3-4 years and prove yourself, it can become a very lucrative career.

Being in the investment sales industry, some inside ball if you would have interest in the wealth management side of the business. I can't tell you how many older financial advisors there are on the hunt for a younger, driven, intelligent partner to help with their succession plan as they near retirement. It's unbelievable. The transition to fully inherit the advisors book of business could be a couple year long process, but the benefit would be that you would be working with existing clients (read: no cold calling), an existing revenue base (not having to kill what you eat) and allow you to focus on cultivating referrals versus hard selling friends and family.

[Vanmarsenille]

Lots of good advice here. All sales is basically the same, and it all comes down to one thing: can you take the constant pressure of only being as good as your next week's sales numbers? Not last week, not today, but next week; because whatever numbers you produce, whether it's for NY Life, or State Farm, or Edward Jones, or Voya Financial, it will never be enough. If you have the kind of personality that can live with that, and there are people who thrive on that kind of pressure, then good for you. I did it for almost 10 years, and was very, very good at it, made a lot of money, but ultimately couldn't take the pressure any longer.

[M3 Number 86]

Depends on what type of person you are and what you're good at. I'm guessing with your years of experience you are already over six figures. Add ten years to that and you'll be in a pretty decent six figure range. So do what you would like to do and what you're good at and not for the potential of making $1M.

That's like the EVP of any position talking good things about career.

What if you're progression takes you to the CFO level. That would be way more than $1.2M a year.

[bimmerfrk]

Currently work in IT finance now but sold insurance after college. Its garbage. Every one wants to tell you that you will make 7 figures after 10 years. But do you really think they would be talking to you and diluting their sales pool if that were the case. If you have something that good you shut the fuck up and milk it for all its worth. Not take meetings with freshly graduated undergrads promising million dollar pay checks.

Insurance is bullshit always has been always will be...


Cliffs**

been there did it after school never ever going back.