[BayMoWe335]

Helping my brother buy a car for his wife. They want a 2016 Rav-4...whatever. We are paying cash. We get to the negotiating table and we have the exact number we are willing to pay, max. We offer $750 below that and they act like we are crazy.. We offer our top dollar, ouyt the door. They are simply too high and we are about $2,000 apart. We literally negotiated for 2 minutes and they just said, "I can't touch that deal" after I told him it's the absolute highest driveout price we are willing to pay. I said, "Thank you, let me know if you change your mind" and we left.

He really does want the car and he's telling me maybe we should go up on our price. I keep telling him to wait, but curious what you guys think.

I told him it's the second day of the month AND the first day of a 4th of July weekend. The place was super busy. I also told him they'll try to squeeze margin out of the remaining 2016s and when the 2017s come, they'll really want to deal. Not sure when that will be. I'm guessing August?

Sticking point is "dealer installed options" as usual. Bunch of worthless stuff like plastic mud flaps, wheel locks, and tint...retail price is $1900. I told him that's worth $0 to us. Trouble is, EVERY car has that crap.

Essentially we wanted 10% off MSRP (Around $3k off) and not paying extra for those dealer installed options. We aren't trading.

Should we wait or cave in? I don't think we are being unreasonable, but maybe I'm used to negotiating BMWs? I told him to get an X3, but he won't listen. Been about 5 hours and no call.

[John 070]

My opinion is when they let you leave, they are not considering your offer. A bird in hand is worth two in the bush. Even car salespeople have their dignity. Not much, but some.

The above has happened to me, and I would NEVER up my offer. Go to another dealer and add $100. If they let you leave, you know your offer is la lowball.

[Alpine300zhp]

I agree with John. Go to another dealer that does not put on worthless stuff and charge 5 times what it really costs.

[MKSixer]

It's commoditized. They aren't inclined to negotiate. I'd look online and find the vehicle that best fits the specs she wants and send email to the top 5 dealerships with my offer. I'd go with whomever met my target price.

Good luck.
-mk

[dreamingat30fps]

Yeah usually I don't make it out of the parking lot before they come get me if they really want to do anything. If they let you leave then they probably wont call back. That doesn't necessarily mean that what you offered is not realistic though, just that specific dealer doesn't want to do the deal for whatever reason. Now if the same thing happens at multiple dealers then your offer may be low and you will need to raise it next time.

[Josh5442]

It's a Toyota - that simple. The only deals you get on new ones are when Toyota runs them; truck month, 0% financing, etc. You're not financing so they have zero kickbacks from the banks. My advice is find a dealership that will sell it to you without all the extras. Plan on paying top dollar if you're not trading anything in and paying cash. Or go buy an American car. I got 12k off MSRP on my 16 RAM.

[P1]

The fact you are paying cash is working against you.

[jgoens]

They didn't even try to meet you halfway and let you walk. Beginning of the month and a holiday weekend will not net good deals as they have lots of buyers and they will watch people buy at msrp or just a bit under. Towards the end of the month depending on the numbers they need to hit the deals might get better. It kind of depends how bad your brother wants the car...if he is willing to go up in price and really wants it, you might try to go in on tuesday and see if they will budge. If they sold less units than expected for the holiday, they might bite.

[VB5ER]

They should have some rebates on 16s in September and October. I think 5g off their price is a little unrealistic. Sold and did finance at Chevrolet dealership back in the mid 90s and I just don't see them having that much room in it. Money off direct from Toyota is the way to go. Cash is cash either you give them a check or the bank does, they don't care. Good luck though, hold out till the end of October if you can. Selection might be limited though.

[BayMoWe335]

Thanks guys. Sounds like it's just a low margin car.

Does early in the month play a role at all? I really think they'd be more interested on July 30th than today.

I told my brother I'd go one more time to help, but he's going to need to up his price.

He's one of those guys that thinks he has to "win" on every deal. He always pays cash.

[WreckerX5d]

Time of the month plays a good part. Your best deals are at the last day of the month and the end of the year. Paying cash now may not allow any rebates Toyota offers to the dealership and margins on cars aren't really that high anymore. Sometimes it's best to finance the car to get the rebates and then just pay it off the next day.

[jgoens]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

Thanks guys. Sounds like it's just a low margin car.

Does early in the month play a role at all? I really think they'd be more interested on July 30th than today.

I told my brother I'd go one more time to help, but he's going to need to up his price.

He's one of those guys that thinks he has to "win" on every deal. He always pays cash.

Yeah, late in the month can make a difference for sure depending on how many they sold in the month and how close they are to "their" numbers. I bought my f30 last year on New Years Eve and the salesperson I dealt with, who I have worked with in the past needed a few cars for end of month and end of year and we went back and forth and they tried to meet me halfway and such but in the end did exactly as I wanted in price and things like repairing the wheels. Got the car for $3K under asking price even though the car was on the lot for less than a week.
I talked to them during and after the sell and the rep told me they would take the car at near no profit as the amount of units sold for the month/year far outweighed the margin on 1 car.

[Pixel8ed]

Every car is a low margin car. It is almost to the point that the car is a loss leader to get you in the service bay.

Also as mentioned already, cash customers are the worst way to sell a car for a dealer. The have no opportunity to make some on the financing. It gives you no leverage to make a deal when you eliminate all of the ways they make money. It literaly is better for them to let you walk than it is to make the sale.

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by Pixel8ed

Every car is a low margin car. It is almost to the point that the car is a loss leader to get you in the service bay.

Also as mentioned already, cash customers are the worst way to sell a car for a dealer. The have no opportunity to make some on the financing. It gives you no leverage to make a deal when you eliminate all of the ways they make money. It literaly is better for them to let you walk than it is to make the sale.

I guess we'll wait a few weeks and hope they want to sell the volume. I heard volume is pretty important for these big Toyota/Honda dealerships. If not, he'll just have to cave. He's just being cheap and trying to play this game. I told him it's not worth the hassle and to just pony up.

[mccannable]

I went shopping with a wealthy friend and family years ago in high school. We went the dealership and stood next to the car he wanted. When the sales man came out he took out a single check, wrote it for the amount he wanted to pay and said something like "give that to your manager." He refuses to go inside and either he owned the car in 15 min or he walked.

He still does this although he buys scions now so has to go to a lot of dealers but still gets a good deal.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by P1et

The fact you are paying cash is working against you.

Not necessarily, if the offer were within their range the sale is done in < 15 min and they are on to the next victim. They have to report it to the IRS regardless, I mean who's not going to put a 10k downpay on a 30k car?

Granted dealers make money on the new car, the trade, the financing, and the useless add ons.

BMW dealers try to tack on training and maco fees. I didn't pay them, but was told they are legit and are charged to the dealer.

[jtodd_fl]

Originally Posted by Wrecker335d

Time of the month plays a good part. Your best deals are at the last day of the month and the end of the year. Paying cash now may not allow any rebates Toyota offers to the dealership and margins on cars aren't really that high anymore. Sometimes it's best to finance the car to get the rebates and then just pay it off the next day.

I did the very end of month thing. Went in at 9a that day. Walked out. They called at 2 with a counter offer - I said "No". They called about 3:30 with another counteroffer - I said "almost". One more call at 4 and I went and got the car. I compromised a little, they compromised a lot more. It was a Ford. I've had less success with BMW, but the cars have all been brand new generation M releases.

On financing, that can be tricky. I heard, although have not been able to substantiate, that if you pay it off within X number of months, that the dealer (and CA) get whatever they earned taken back. Makes sense, tbh. So, you win, they lose.

[zx10guy]

I can confirm there is some extra incentives paid to the dealership/sales person when you finance through them. My sales guy thought I was all lined up to finance through them. I asked one more time for the incentive BMW was running at the time or any other concession to get me to the price I would have had with the incentive. He still claimed the incentive was not currently running.

That's when I whipped out the check from my credit union. The look on his face said it all. He was not happy. He thought he had me over a barrel. He was screwing me and I wanted to at least stick it back to him in a small way. Of course the finance guy was brought in before I even went over to his office to do the paper work. He said he could beat the interest rate my credit union offered me. Well, I'm not stupid so I said sure....if you can beat 1.49% fixed for 5 years....I'll do it. After about 30 minutes, the finance guy came back and said he couldn't even get close. The best he could do was 3%.

Frankly, if the sales guy wasn't such a dick and at least met me somewhere in the middle, I would have even financed at the 3% with them and then turned around and refi'd with my credit union at the lower rate. Doing this and giving him the middle finger with the BMW sales experience survey was my gift to him per the thread in the other subforum asking about what people have given to their CAs.

And if you're wondering why I went through all of this and not just walked, they had the only new black 135i across the mid atlantic region and he knew it. This was when BMW stopped making the 1 series.

[John 070]

I've never been in a position where I had to have a car. Not even the 335i in 10/06. People on the forum were paying list, or getting $500 off. I got $1700 off list and the SA said please don't tell your friends to come to me and ask for that, I cannot get it for them, not kidding.

After my car was ordered, in the system, online, the SA's mgr called and said she "forgot" to add the training and MACO fees, so I will have to come in and redo the paperwork reflecting them.

I said I don't pay such fees. Dude said everybody pays them (I checked edmunds.com and they are legit fees). So I told them to give my allocation to somebody else, I'll just buy the car in Manhattan. I don't do business like that and see you later. He puts me on hold and says I don't have to pay them.

Credit unions have notoriously low rates (maybe not now but they had 1.49% ON USED). Dealers always match them.

I'll probably be in for a rude awakening one day when I'm shopping for a F80. But ultimately I probably would not get the car if I am subjected to shenanigans.

[zx10guy]

Had the sales guy/dealership sold the car at sticker and wouldn't budge, you bet I would have walked. I wanted a 135i and unfortunately when I was in the market what was on the lots was what I had as options. Frankly I was surprised to even run across this 135i as I thought all 135i stock were sold off with production ceasing many months ago. He did come down to "invoice" pricing but I knew he was pocketing the incentive from BMW. His whole demeanor during the transaction was shocking too. My wife even commented about how much of a bully he was. I'm in sales too and I would never treat any of my customers the way he did to me.

In contrast, the experience I had with buying my wife's Acura was a total pleasure. But this was after he realized I was serious about buying the car as I walked in the showroom with a t-shirt and sweat pants. If Acura made a comparable car to the 135i, I might have been in an Acura.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

Helping my brother buy a car for his wife. They want a 2016 Rav-4...whatever. We are paying cash. We get to the negotiating table and we have the exact number we are willing to pay, max. We offer $750 below that and they act like we are crazy.. We offer our top dollar, ouyt the door. They are simply too high and we are about $2,000 apart. We literally negotiated for 2 minutes and they just said, "I can't touch that deal" after I told him it's the absolute highest driveout price we are willing to pay. I said, "Thank you, let me know if you change your mind" and we left.

This is exactly what I do, especially when purchasing an 'appliance' car like a RAV4, Camry, Accord, etc. It's especially easy to do this when you're not in a pinch to get something done immediately. Besides, that 2016 is about to become last year's model in about two months. Use that as leverage too.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

This is exactly what I do, especially when purchasing an 'appliance' car like a RAV4, Camry, Accord, etc. It's especially easy to do this when you're not in a pinch to get something done immediately. Besides, that 2016 is about to become last year's model in about two months. Use that as leverage too.

There is also such a thing as "pride" with salespeople. With my wife's car, the salesman was a ****. I asked him if the car we were test driving were a demo. He said what do you mean by that, it's brand new. It had like 400 miles on it. I made an offer, he said to stop back when I was serious, they're open all weekend.

Again, I had the mentality we don't need a car today, and I passed by another dealership. Subtracted $500 from the above offer, and the guy said are you going to take the car today? I said of course. Deal was done.

Of course buying a car is a game. The finance manager who matched 1.49% of the CU said now I don't know why we would do this deal, but that's why I'm not the GM. He swiveled his screen around (it looked like DOS), and in the lower right hand corner was this big RED number -7xx. He said we are losing 700 on this sale, I'm not making that up.

I do wish I could have gotten a screen shot to actually see what that number was. Even edmunds said there is some secrecy in the industry so not everything is transparent.

Also interesting is that this dealer accepted a personal check for 20k. The BMW dealer told me cashier's or certified check only.