[CitizenKane]

Well after about 18 months of e92 320d ownership I've decided to sell...

The main reason is because I'm now saving for sensible things like a wedding and a house and my e92 could still fetch decent money (it's 2013 with low mileage), but to be honest I'm also getting quite bored with the car. It's great looking, ridiculously economical and more luxurious than I'd personally ever expect or need in a car, but the driving experience was lacking. But hey it's a 4 cylinder diesel after all so really what was I expecting.

Anyway to get to the point, I am now considering what to go for next. I want something with decent performance (definitely not diesel again...) but conscious of other financial considerations I'm not looking to spend a huge amount. I've kind of narrowed it down to either:

-LCI e46 330Ci - I've got my eye on a couple of 2004/2005 models and this seems like a seriously good bargain performance option.

-pre-LCI e92 335i - the earliest models seem to be still a fair bit pricier than late LCI 330Ci's, but I guess there is a pretty considerable jump in spec and performance.

-e46 M3 - maybe this is a pipe dream as it certainly doesn't fit with my aim of trying to be financially sensible, but of all the options here this excites me the most. There seems to be some good examples around for comparable money to earlier 335i's, but my main problem is that I'll be importing to Ireland and the import ta...ahem "vehicle registration tax" on one of these is likely to be even more than the price of the car itself

Anyway, does anyone have any views on the above or indeed any other suggestions? What would you go for if you were me?

Cheers!

[E60525d]

If your saving money, then I dont see how this is possible with a 335i or E46 M3. Maintenance costs on these will be high.

[smuler]

I've basically had those 3 cars in that order, if you substitute 330 for 325, which having driven 330 is a little slower but the 'same level.'
The other two being different, but both the 'next level' in performance.

Manual 325, DCT 335i, manual M3 (I also briefly had a manual 325 as a daily partner for the M3)

You'll feel a difference in comfort in going to a E46 330ci but you'll have a much more fun, raw driving experience.

Last time I drove the 325 it was costing me 19.5p/per mile fuel costs so actually only 3.5p/per mile cheaper than the 335i I ran between 10.2014 and 5.2016 thus the cost risk with the 335i is probably only if big things go wrong as servicing was reasonable.

Therefore, as 330's are getting older (likely rusty) if you can buy a good 335i and don't do extremely high mileage this would be my suggestion.

I'm only about 4.5p/per mile more on the M3 over the 335i, but this isn't truly reflective as the M3 is not a daily and on the way to the mountains I drive slowly, I'd say if it were a hard drive daily driver there'd be bigger gap.
But in any event there's the M Tax price on parts and servicing plus prices are going up for decent ones.

It's overall a better car than 335i, unless you only daily drive in which case there's not much in it ; it's on the fast, fun roads the M3 is a different level.

It's also VERY different from the 330ci, hard to believe they're related.

I'd say M3 would be too much of a cost/ cost risk with your other lifestyle additions of a missus (very high maintenance) and a house!

If you're paying attention to the fuel costs, my current daily costs me 15p/per mile. That's a 20d X1 so more comparable to yours. Short distances and I'm fast.

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by E60525d

If your saving money, then I dont see how this is possible with a 335i or E46 M3. Maintenance costs on these will be high.

No doubt, but it would surely still be a lot cheaper than what I was paying monthly to have the much newer car on HP!

[bfleming]

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

-LCI e46 330Ci - I've got my eye on a couple of 2004/2005 models and this seems like a seriously good bargain performance option.

-pre-LCI e92 335i - the earliest models seem to be still a fair bit pricier than late LCI 330Ci's, but I guess there is a pretty considerable jump in spec and performance.

-e46 M3 - maybe this is a pipe dream as it certainly doesn't fit with my aim of trying to be financially sensible, but of all the options here this excites me the most. There seems to be some good examples around for comparable money to earlier 335i's, but my main problem is that I'll be importing to Ireland and the import ta...ahem "vehicle registration tax" on one of these is likely to be even more than the price of the car itself

Forget VRT in Ireland, it's not that much for older cars. Here's a link to the calculator so you can see (to the Euro) what you'll be paying: https://www.ros.ie/evrt-enquiry/vrte...execution=e2s2

What you need to be acutely aware of is road tax. It was based on engine size up to 2008, and CO2 levels from then on.
Taxing an E46 330Ci in Ireland will cost you €1494/year.
An E46 M3 will be €1809/year
A 335i would be €1494/year up to 2008, and €1200 from 2008 on (co2 based from 2008).
By comparison your current E92 320d (assuming it's manual) would be about €270/year.

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by smuler

I've basically had those 3 cars in that order, if you substitute 330 for 325, which having driven 330 is a little slower but the 'same level.'
The other two being different, but both the 'next level' in performance.

Manual 325, DCT 335i, manual M3 (I also briefly had a manual 325 as a daily partner for the M3)

You'll feel a difference in comfort in going to a E46 330ci but you'll have a much more fun, raw driving experience.

Last time I drove the 325 it was costing me 19.5p/per mile fuel costs so actually only 3.5p/per mile cheaper than the 335i I ran between 10.2014 and 5.2016 thus the cost risk with the 335i is probably only if big things go wrong as servicing was reasonable.

Therefore, as 330's are getting older (likely rusty) if you can buy a good 335i and don't do extremely high mileage this would be my suggestion.

I'm only about 4.5p/per mile more on the M3 over the 335i, but this isn't truly reflective as the M3 is not a daily and on the way to the mountains I drive slowly, I'd say if it were a hard drive daily driver there'd be bigger gap.
But in any event there's the M Tax price on parts and servicing plus prices are going up for decent ones.

It's overall a better car than 335i, unless you only daily drive in which case there's not much in it ; it's on the fast, fun roads the M3 is a different level.

It's also VERY different from the 330ci, hard to believe they're related.

I'd say M3 would be too much of a cost/ cost risk with your other lifestyle additions of a missus (very high maintenance) and a house!

If you're paying attention to the fuel costs, my current daily costs me 15p/per mile. That's a 20d X1 so more comparable to yours. Short distances and I'm fast.

Excellent, thanks mate. Realistically I doubt I'll get an M3 so it's probably down to the 330Ci vs 335i. I do very little mileage so I will bear that in mind.

Based on the examples I'm looking at it seems like I'd pay more than double for an early 335i than I would for a 330Ci. The VRT skews it. For example I have seen a 2005 330Ci for £2,995 and a 2007 335i for £5,600, which isn't a massive difference. But while VRT on the 330Ci is around €1,000, on the 335i it is around €3,500. So (converted to Euro) the total cost of the 330Ci is around €4,200 and the total cost of the 335i is around €9,500.

I've read/seen lots of comparisons between the 330Ci and e46 M3 and the consensus does seem to be that it is a great fun car but can't really touch the M...

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by bfleming

Forget VRT in Ireland, it's not that much for older cars. Here's a link to the calculator so you can see (to the Euro) what you'll be paying: https://www.ros.ie/evrt-enquiry/vrte...execution=e2s2

What you need to be acutely aware of is road tax. It was based on engine size up to 2008, and CO2 levels from then on.
Taxing an E46 330Ci in Ireland will cost you €1494/year.
An E46 M3 will be €1809/year
A 335i would be €1494/year up to 2008, and €1200 from 2008 on (co2 based from 2008).
By comparison your current E92 320d (assuming it's manual) would be about €270/year.

For sure mate, thanks. Yes I was paying €270 per year on the 320d and of course that is one thing about the car that I will miss...

In my post above I've set out the VRT quotes I've gotten for the 330Ci and 335i and yes you're right in the grand scheme of things it isn't massive. The annoying thing is for some reason they don't even give you the option to get an estimate for an M3, but I do recall speaking to people who have imported M3's and paid a fortune for the privilege.

[bfleming]

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

For sure mate, thanks. Yes I was paying €270 per year on the 320d and of course that is one thing about the car that I will miss...

In my post above I've set out the VRT quotes I've gotten for the 330Ci and 335i and yes you're right in the grand scheme of things it isn't massive. The annoying thing is for some reason they don't even give you the option to get an estimate for an M3, but I do recall speaking to people who have imported M3's and paid a fortune for the privilege.

I have a friend who was looking to import a Porsche 997 a couple of years ago, and gave up because the VRT people just wouldn't talk to him until he had bought the car!!! It was too much of a gamble, so he ended up buying one of the rare Irish ones.
Might be worth having a look for a car that is already registered in Ireland - DoneDeal.ie maybe? People import them, then the novelty of paying for all that road tax soon wears off.

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by bfleming

I have a friend who was looking to import a Porsche 997 a couple of years ago, and gave up because the VRT people just wouldn't talk to him until he had bought the car!!! It was too much of a gamble, so he ended up buying one of the rare Irish ones.
Might be worth having a look for a car that is already registered in Ireland - DoneDeal.ie maybe? People import them, then the novelty of paying for all that road tax soon wears off.

Lol that doesn't surprise me in the slightest!

I was mainly looking at Carzone for Ireland but actually there seems to be a much bigger selection on DoneDeal!

[CitizenKane]

Just to give people an idea (and a laugh) about this VRT thing we're talking about... out of curiosity I got an estimate for how much it would cost to import an M4 from UK to Ireland. The cheapest M4 I could find on AutoTrader UK is a 2014 with 52,000 miles. It costs £31,500 (~€34,175). If I was to buy this car and bring it into Ireland I would have to pay VRT of €22,000 (~£20,276)...

[bfleming]

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

Just to give people an idea (and a laugh) about this VRT thing we're talking about... out of curiosity I got an estimate for how much it would cost to import an M4 from UK to Ireland. The cheapest M4 I could find on AutoTrader UK is a 2014 with 52,000 miles. It costs £31,500 (~€34,175). If I was to buy this car and bring it into Ireland I would have to pay VRT of €22,000 (~£20,276)...

There's a 2014 M4 on Carzone for €71500, so €56000 incl VRT looks like a bargain!
List price for a base spec M4 manual is €100760. Same car in the UK is £59080, and is €78200 in Germany.
However if you want to talk about rip-off's, go to Denmark, where you'll pay 180% VRT. So an M4 will cost you about €218,000!!!

[Andy198712]

Originally Posted by bfleming

There's a 2014 M4 on Carzone for €71500, so €56000 incl VRT looks like a bargain!
List price for a base spec M4 manual is €100760. Same car in the UK is £59080, and is €78200 in Germany.
However if you want to talk about rip-off's, go to Denmark, where you'll pay 180% VRT. So an M4 will cost you about €218,000!!!

Who'd of thought the UK would be the cheapest place to buy a car!

[bfleming]

Originally Posted by Andy198712

Who'd of thought the UK would be the cheapest place to buy a car!

I saw a EU-wide comparison of car prices lately, and whilst not the cheapest, the UK was 'up there'. It's very exchange rate dependent, which must mean overseas car manufacturers (or 'all of them'!) despair when there's a currency fluctuation.

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by Andy198712

Who'd of thought the UK would be the cheapest place to buy a car!

At least the cost of living in Ireland is generally cheaper so it evens out! Oh wait it's actually the third highest in the EU...

[ChawenHalo]

Keep the 2013 320d. If you're not getting the driving thrill bit you can push a bit more, its a very well ballanced car more akin to front mid engined than FR.

Same in terms of cost. Its a bulletproof car and getting Something older will just give you more headackes and maintenance. False saving if you IMHO...

[ChawenHalo]

Keep the 2013 320d. If you're not getting the driving thrill bit you can push a bit more, its a very well ballanced car more akin to front mid engined than FR.

Same in terms of cost. Its a bulletproof car and getting Something older will just give you more headackes and maintenance. False saving if you IMHO...

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by ChawenHalo

Keep the 2013 320d. If you're not getting the driving thrill bit you can push a bit more, its a very well ballanced car more akin to front mid engined than FR.

Same in terms of cost. Its a bulletproof car and getting Something older will just give you more headackes and maintenance. False saving if you IMHO...

I might be inclined to agree if the only reason I was getting rid of the car was to save money, but it isn't. Granted I said in my OP that was the main reason, but in truth it's probably only around 50% of the reason, the other 50% being that I'm bored as fuck driving it!

Also in terms of the cost savings analysis, bear in mind how much more expensive cars are in Ireland (see discussion above re VRT). So my monthly outlay to have this car on a hire purchase is significantly more than what it would be in the UK, whereas maintenance costs are not comparatively higher in Ireland.

So what I'm saying is, even if maintenance costs on an older car might outweigh the cost of a newer car in the UK, that may not necessarily be the case in Ireland.

[ChawenHalo]

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

I might be inclined to agree if the only reason I was getting rid of the car was to save money, but it isn't. Granted I said in my OP that was the main reason, but in truth it's probably only around 50% of the reason, the other 50% being that I'm bored as fuck driving it!

Also in terms of the cost savings analysis, bear in mind how much more expensive cars are in Ireland (see discussion above re VRT). So my monthly outlay to have this car on a hire purchase is significantly more than what it would be in the UK, whereas maintenance costs are not comparatively higher in Ireland.

So what I'm saying is, even if maintenance costs on an older car might outweigh the cost of a newer car in the UK, that may not necessarily be the case in Ireland.

Could be worth trying any pre LCI 330 (i or d). Both are fantastic to drive with that classic straight 6, hydraulic steering and are pretty much bulletproof (I still run a 2.8 in the wife's Z3 Coupe, and my 2006 330d did 200k miles before it was nicked) issues are well known and easy to cure. A good saving can be had if you take it without I drive which in its CCC form has aged quite a bit TBH.

[wolly440]

Try an 2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta, they're pretty quick

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by ChawenHalo

Could be worth trying any pre LCI 330 (i or d). Both are fantastic to drive with that classic straight 6, hydraulic steering and are pretty much bulletproof (I still run a 2.8 in the wife's Z3 Coupe, and my 2006 330d did 200k miles before it was nicked) issues are well known and easy to cure. A good saving can be had if you take it without I drive which in its CCC form has aged quite a bit TBH.

True, funnily enough it seems like 330i's tend to be at least as expensive as 335i's generally? Why are they more reliable, pretty much because they're not turbocharged?

[CitizenKane]

Originally Posted by wolly440

Try an 2011 Alfa Romeo Giulietta, they're pretty quick

[IMG]https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net...-did-there.jpg[/IMG]

[ChawenHalo]

Originally Posted by CitizenKane

True, funnily enough it seems like 330i's tend to be at least as expensive as 335i's generally? Why are they more reliable, pretty much because they're not turbocharged?

An naturally aspirated (N/A) BMW inline / straight 6 with RWD and 3 series chassis is like strawberries and cream, a gift from the gods of mechanics. If you like your cars you need to have one at some point in your life. Simple. I've plenty of serious car owners (some of which now have very exotic and expensive machinery) and all have said a 330i was simply one of the best cars they've ever had.

Just last year I was on a track day where I'm one of the regulars. A fella I know who runs and Italia properly came up to talk about those engines for 45 mins. We ended up having coffee and missing a 20 mins session.

There is a reason why so ma,y of us wax lirical about BMW's in general and any 330i or older gen 328i are really at the heart of that reason.

Otherwise an mk6 or Mk7 golf GTI is a good fun too has no image association and is great all rounder.