[Paul@Austin]

And it is a 07 Camry.... That's right... a Toyota CAMRY!! For all of those that say that BMW does not need a bump in HP and the next gen. of engines will come with a steep price tag, think about this… you are now going to get toasted off the line by a 90 year old grandmother on her way to water aerobics class!

For the last 6 months there has been debate on the timing and pricing of the engine upgrade from the 3 Series Sedan. The talk has been that the 325i will be come the 328 with 240 HP +/- and the 330 will become the 335 with 300+ HP. I don’t see how BMW can charge more that $2K more for the new engines (now I am thinking they will be at parity). I also can’t see BMW holding off on upgrading the Sedan until MY'08 (MY’07 with a Sept build looks inevitable).

P.S. I know there is a hell of a lot more to a car than HP, but I never thought I would see the day that a low end family car can smoke a BMW 330 off the line! :mad:

[Oz]

I'll say this again like always...Horsepower isn't everything on buying a car. BMW is about the complete package, not just the 0-60 speed. If you want horsepower, I believe you can buy a Mustang GT for a cheaper price..

[Mr. BMW]

Originally Posted by Paul@Austin

And it is a 07 Camry.... That's right... a Toyota CAMRY!! For all of those that say that BMW does not need a bump in HP and the next gen. of engines will come with a steep price tag, think about this… you are now going to get toasted off the line by a 90 year old grandmother on her way to water aerobics class!

For the last 6 months there has been debate on the timing and pricing of the engine upgrade from the 3 Series Sedan. The talk has been that the 325i will be come the 328 with 240 HP +/- and the 330 will become the 335 with 300+ HP. I don’t see how BMW can charge more that $2K more for the new engines (now I am thinking they will be at parity). I also can’t see BMW holding off on upgrading the Sedan until MY'08 (MY’07 with a Sept build looks inevitable).

P.S. I know there is a hell of a lot more to a car than HP, but I never thought I would see the day that a low end family car can smoke a BMW 330 off the line! :mad:

Don't forget, that 268HP is coming out of the front wheels. Can you say TORQUE STEER??

[bavarian19]

Who cares... its still a toyota

[dom1]

As most people have said in other forums, BMW is much more than off the line acceleration. There are much faster cars our there but I bet the Camry or any of the others don't handle as well (new Lexus). Also, the Camry will only be offered in an automatic so it may not be faster than the 330i. I did check that their weight is similar and the drag coefficient is better in the Toyota. I think it would be an interesting race.

You do have a point, it's kind of pathetic that BMWs are so expensive and not give you better performance for your money. Camry's performance should never ever be close to a BMW's.

All that said, I love every mile that I've done in my car.

[akhbhaat]

I keep hearing how BMW offers the "complete package," but nobody says what they mean by "complete package." If horsepower isn't everything, what is?

I had to pay extra for a CD player, cruise control and sunroof in my E46. Is that what you mean by complete package?

[E90Fleet]

Well, we know for shure there is European E92 is a 325i

So dont know why USA would get a 328i

[Oz]

Originally Posted by akhbhaat

I keep hearing how BMW offers the "complete package," but nobody says what they mean by "complete package." If horsepower isn't everything, what is?

I had to pay extra for a CD player, cruise control and sunroof in my E46. Is that what you mean by complete package?

BMW Handling, Design, and customization that many other car companies do not offer

[mundo74]

Originally Posted by Paul@Austin

And it is a 07 Camry.... That's right... a Toyota CAMRY!! For all of those that say that BMW does not need a bump in HP and the next gen. of engines will come with a steep price tag, think about this… you are now going to get toasted off the line by a 90 year old grandmother on her way to water aerobics class!

For the last 6 months there has been debate on the timing and pricing of the engine upgrade from the 3 Series Sedan. The talk has been that the 325i will be come the 328 with 240 HP +/- and the 330 will become the 335 with 300+ HP. I don’t see how BMW can charge more that $2K more for the new engines (now I am thinking they will be at parity). I also can’t see BMW holding off on upgrading the Sedan until MY'08 (MY’07 with a Sept build looks inevitable).

P.S. I know there is a hell of a lot more to a car than HP, but I never thought I would see the day that a low end family car can smoke a BMW 330 off the line! :mad:

same sentiments here Paul@Austin. check out an old thread http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14345 I tell you, to everyone down playing HP, I guess they would not mind BMW getting rid of the N52 and giving them a 120HP M20 eta or the 181HP M50/52. In every generation BMW has always given more and not less HP. So I guess more HP # matters to them too. I stopped trying to outpull the avearge Accords and maximas a long time ago!

[ase2dais]

Originally Posted by Paul@Austin

… you are now going to get toasted off the line by a 90 year old grandmother on her way to water aerobics class!

thats is correct.
... in fact I found out that my neglected 03 accord EXv6 sitting in front of the house has 240HP, more than my 325i.
... I decided to dust it off, put brembo brakes and 17" wheels/tires, so I can catch grandmother on her way to her water aerobics

[BMW0]

If you like the camry go for it! I like the E90 and so I bought it. I wish they offered the N54 engine back then when I ordered my car. Oh well, I can't have everything the way I want it, and thats cool.

[wyrm11]

Most people realize that HP isn't everything, but it's foolish to ignore the numbers AND the fact that in the US, consumers pay attention to the HP numbers.

BMW knows this and has acknowledged the need to up the HP in the very important, and ultra competitive US market. There's no point in denying the need. BMW acknowledges it, why can't BMW fans?

[windnsea00]

Well if your a numbers type of person, more power is on the way for E90's. I have always noticed BMW's figures don't really tell the truth. Down low it's common for I6 BMW's to be a bit laggy (other than the M52's of the past) but once you get these I6's churning, matched with BMW's excellent gear ratios, they really go! Even in our 325iT which is no beast off the line but on flat ground on the freeway, it will pull pretty quickly from 80+ (obviously designed for the Autobahn )

[Oz]

Originally Posted by wyrm11

Most people realize that HP isn't everything, but it's foolish to ignore the numbers AND the fact that in the US, consumers pay attention to the HP numbers.

BMW knows this and has acknowledged the need to up the HP in the very important, and ultra competitive US market. There's no point in denying the need. BMW acknowledges it, why can't BMW fans?

I acknowledge that BMW needs to incrase their HP numbers but I think BMW really competes and does well because of the BMW name, luxury, and handling

It would be nice for my E90 to have more HP but I won't go out now and buy a new Camry just because it has more HP. Does the new Camry have the handling and performance a 3 series has?

[CirrusSR22]

BMW could put in a bigger engine, a HEAVIER engine, a less refined engine. The Toyota engine IS heavier than the N52. It would throw off the 50/50 balance, making it a worse handling/driving car; which is BMW's number 1 objective.

More bamboozling by HP numbers....

IMO anything over >250 HP is quite worthless on American roads. So what if your car will do 150 mph. At 100mph, you lose your license for six months. Peel out, you'll get a ticket.

------------------------------------


Read this article Jay Leno wrote:

"There was a movie a couple of years ago called The Incredible Lightness of Being. I liked the title because it reminded me of Lotus' attitude to making cars, and more recently of the Miata, or MX-5 as you call it. It's all about less being more.

I like the Miata because it's the only sports car in which they haven't used horsepower to solve all the problems. With almost every other car, when they have trouble with it, or it just isn't selling, they just add gobs of horsepower to it.

'You've got the Mercedes coupe moving a little slow? You come out with the CL65 with 604hp. Bad handling? Put a Hemi in it.'

With the Miata, that doesn't really seem to the issue. Although the power's gone up a bit over the years, it's one of the few cars you can drive where power doesn't seem to be the issue. It's one of balance.

Because cars are so powerful now, there aren't many cars where you need to use all the power all the time to keep it on the boil. When you drive a new Porsche or Corvette or any of those cars, anything past a third throttle to a half throttle and you're in jail. With the Miata, you can whip the gearbox around, bring the a$$ end around and slide it a little bit and have a great deal of fun with it. And if you do manage to damage it, there's a Mazda junkyard less than 3 miles from me.

My Miata was my late brother's. He got it in '96 and, like most people, I had that 'haridresser car' kind of reaction. 'What did you buy that for? Why didn't you get an MGA Twin Cam or something? Something that will leak oil and catch fire?'

Like a lot of people, I came late to the Miata party, and had that incredible snobbery: 'Oh sure it's got twin cams, but it's not the same twin cams as Lotus!' And then Pat got the car. He put a supercharger on it, sway bars and some handling stuff. And every time I went home I loved driving it more and more.

Now that I have inherited it, I drive it quite a bit. I use it when - and this sounds dumb - I use it when I have to park my car somewhere. For me, cars tend to be a great form of recreation. You take a Porsche Carrera GT or a Ford GT, you go out and go in a huge circle, you go 150 miles on windy roads up through the hills, and then you always come back to the same destination, then you lock it in the garage. It's not a car you can actually park on the street and leave.

It's a bit like taking an attractive woman in a mini-skirt into a club. If you go to the restroom, you're constantly looking out the door making sure no other guys are talking to her and you hurry up and get back there. But with the Miata, it's a car you can actually drive, and park, and people may throw it a cursory glance but no one will hit on it.

In the last column, I talked about MG. Of course, if MG had made the Miata it probably would have saved them, but I don't think they could have made it.

I think the English and Americans have that great 'we know what we're doing' snobbery. It's a bit like trying to talk to a doctor. Most private planes that have crashed have been flown by doctors, because you can't tell them anything. If a doctor gets in a plane, and you say 'Now that control...', you get 'I'm a doctor! I know what I'm doing!'

It's the same thing with building a sports car. I'll give you an example. About a month-and-a-half ago, a group of Toyota engineers called me up, and they said they want to build a Toyota super-car. Could I show them some of my cars and tell them what I like and don't like? Can you imagine a British company going 'Hello, we'd like to find out what you like and don't like...'

So now there's a new MX-5. I think it's very nice. Like everything else, it's a little wider but I think the sense of balance, the sense of proportion, is still there. I haven't driven it yet, but I'm sure by using lightweight materials and all that type of thing they've kept that. I mean, this is a cash cow isn't it? It's the most popular sports car in the world.

The great thing about the Miata is that to us who lived with the first model this is a refreshed version. But to a whole new generation of people, it will be the only version they know. Heritage is wonderful for guys of a certain age, but to another generation it's ancient history. This is the sports car of record and the only difference is they work hard to keep it that way." - Jay leno

[lux.sh]

bmw knows they are losing in hp race(they did say they will not lose in hp war).
bringing the 335, but that'll cost a premium to get it.

I do feel E90 is getting behind. I didn't feel this with the E46. They were at least keeping up with other cars.

[Paul@Austin]

Originally Posted by dom1

Also, the Camry will only be offered in an automatic so it may not be faster than the 330i.

Not true, it does come in a stick. The torque steer in that thing must be ridiculous!!

[mundo74]

The Miata is a two seater that is light. Try carrying three other passengers in the E90. The reality is BMW will have to make more power to catch up to G35 and IS350 and sadly Camry and Accord. It can't play the Ostrich, bury its head in the sand and hopes no one notices. You can only talk about balance total package and the likes for so long. Remember we who care about the engineering aspects are not the majority of BMW buyers. These people would not know or care that their car uses electrical water pumps and variable disp oil pumps......

[Ghunger]

I think it's funny how these debates always come up. If it's not about one car it's about another. Newsflash! There are a lot of good car companies out there that are making great cars and there are qualities about each of them that make them stand out. Most of us are here cause BMW just happens to have a combination of features we prefer.

[Pazzuzzu]

any dyno numbers on the 330i, I think BMW lie about HP and put out more than they say.

[england1987]

I agree that horsepower isn't everything. Its a combination of horsepower, torque, braking power, handling, weight to power ratio, traction, drive wheels(front/rear), weight distribution, etc...... However, part of the car being the ultimate driving machine means that it will beat a camry/lexus in a straight line race. As a performance machine, the 330i should have more power. It should be easily able to compete with a lexus with regards to horsepower and speed. Thats why I am waiting for the 335i and 306hp.

[ALPINE6SPD]

Originally Posted by Paul@Austin

Not true, it does come in a stick. The torque steer in that thing must be ridiculous!!

Stick only available on the 4 cyl model. Also the acceleration is at lease a half second slower to sixty than a 330i. Estimated time is 6.5 to sixty. Go buy a camry if thats wat you like.