[The Choosey begger]

Some jobs a simple mistake can be deadly!

[P1]

Seems like the cockpit was largely intact after impact.

[Dang3r]

An A306 isnt easy to fly and to handle, this plane wont forgive you the same mistake twice in a row.
The cockpit seems to be intact, but the impact forces are enormous, the belts wont prevent you from those, the seats are going sometimes outta their rails, crashing glaspanels and torned metal could deadly hurt you...there are a lot of very dangerous items into a cockpit - aside of the human factors.

[The Choosey begger]

So sad, moments before impact the Captain asked Did i hit something and then Oh God!

[ASAP]

This is why it's important that modern airliners have built in safety systems to prevent this from happening... in an A330, you would have a million callouts and warnings during the approach.

[sspade]

Not a pilot but interested...

So when the initial discovery was made that they were too high for the approach... should the pilot have said fuck this and aborted the landing... pulling up and out of danger to "do another circle and try again" ???

Im just trying to wrap my mind around why he decided to push forward and keep increasing the decent rate... basically driving the plane into the ground... like WTF...

Pretty sad but if my line of thinking is correct - you have to swallow your pride and pull up right? Or is that like a bad mark against his record?

Just wondering.

[The Choosey begger]

Originally Posted by sspade

Not a pilot but interested...

So when the initial discovery was made that they were too high for the approach... should the pilot have said fuck this and aborted the landing... pulling up and out of danger to "do another circle and try again" ???

Im just trying to wrap my mind around why he decided to push forward and keep increasing the decent rate... basically driving the plane into the ground... like WTF...

Pretty sad but if my line of thinking is correct - you have to swallow your pride and pull up right? Or is that like a bad mark against his record?

Just wondering.

What made it difficult for them, most of the time those guys do the ILS approach. It provides the localizer and glide slope.
It's coupled to the autopilot. The autopilot will fly the plane safely on the proper course and glide path to the missed approach point.
In this case the main runway with the ILS approach was closed so they were using the runway with the localizer only.
The FO should've been tracking the descent on the right glide path throughout the approach fixes, she failed to do so.
They should've crossed the final approach fix at a minimum safe alitude for the fix, they were way below.

You have to establish the proper rate of descent and then make small adjustments to stay on the right glide path.

Their rate of descent was all over the place, it should've been berween 500-700 fpm but at some point they're coming down at 1,500 feet per minutes.


A lot of pilots are so used to doing ILS approaches without it they're lost, rusty. You gotta stay on top of it, things are happening fast.

[sspade]

Originally Posted by anglo

What made it difficult for them, most of the time those guys do the ILS approach. It provides the localizer and glide slope.
It's coupled to the autopilot. The autopilot will fly the plane safely on the proper course and glide path to the missed approach point.
In this case the main runway with the ILS approach was closed so they were using the runway with the localizer only.
The FO should've been tracking the descent on the right glide path throughout the approach fixes, she failed to do so.
They should've crossed the final approach fix at a minimum safe alitude for the fix, they were way below.

You have to establish the proper rate of descent and then make small adjustments to stay on the right glide path.

Their rate of descent was all over the place, it should've been berween 500-700 fpm but at some point they're coming down at 1,500 feet per minutes.


A lot of pilots are so used to doing ILS approaches without it they're lost, rusty. You gotta stay on top of it, things are happening fast.

Ah, okay - that makes more sense to a novice like me. If Im the pilot, the minute I find out that Im not landing on the preferred highway with the preferred technology... Im having a quick one to one with the First Officer telling them to wake the fuck up and be on their game.

Jesus. Scary stuff...

I still think at the last second (wayy before they hit the earth)... Im saying fuck this and pulling up... especially when my FO isnt doing her fucking job...

Is this reasonable or what?

[eluded]

Pilots have a top ten most dangerous job. Lots of them relying on automation. They forget to use their skills.

[Dang3r]

As discussed before, main thing was a messed up crew resource management (CRM). CPT and F/O were joking around instead of proper acting like pros.
We do funny things behind the door but all at its right place and not during tricky approaches.
What makes it more difficult, the A306 is a big bird which reacts more slower than an agile A320 and if you're starting to pitch it down to the nose to catch your necessary height for final by also decreasing engine power, dropping slats and flaps, the critical speed would be reached immediately.
I think the aircraft was equipped with either PW4000 or CF6-80 engines, both need a second to spool up to full power after hitting the throttles and if you're watching the simulated approach (which was dropping a bit to the end) you would notice the throttle corrections made by the fly guy and watch the N1 rpms at top of the center panel how slow they increase, that matches nearly the reality.
The radio altimeter (the blue vertical band) was running quickly at the end and before entering the final phase of landing a minimum height has to be set and after reaching a yellow light is appearing plus a chime to warn you at crossing it. I hadnt seen this during approach, maybe the fly guy had forgot this to activate.
So in the conclusion this accident was a lack of CRM, professional acting and a let-go to the systems. Sad though, but a serious warning to all other crews.