[adc100]

I know since your average BMW user is all about the best for his/her vehicle. I thought I would pass on this information. The Fram offers 20 micron filtering @99% and unless you go to a dual filter bypass you won't get that with any other brand.

Again just passing it on I spent my life doing at least 25% of my work in tribology as a Maintenance Engineer.

Thought you might be intgerested in this info:

https://www.machinerylubrication.com...ose-oil-filter

[ShocknAwe]

Fram? Ehhhh...

Why not use Mann OEM, cheap as dirt, high QC and proven. I think I pay $8 per filter.

[Efthreeoh]

The OEM MANN HU-816x is rated at 20 microns as well.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1535873

[adc100]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The OEM MANN HU-816x is rated at 20 microns as well.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1535873

They don't specify the efficiency for obvious reasons. Its probably 50%. Huuuge difference. There is no filter that I know of that is 20 microns at 99%. If I can find one that's better I will use it.

[N54Yankee]

Fram had a horrible rep not long ago and it was well deserved scorn. I’ll never buy fram again.
All the vehicles I care about and plan on keeping get Mobil 1 oil and filters.

[ShocknAwe]

It doesn't matter how well it filters under ideal conditions if the filter comes apart under standard oil pressure and temperature.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

It doesn't matter how well it filters under ideal conditions if the filter comes apart under standard oil pressure and temperature.

Considering billions and billions are sold..they are no more likely to fail than any other filter. I have changed hundreds of filters in my life..many were Fram. We are talking Urban Legend to the Max

https://theeffectiveguide.com/fram-oil-filter-review/

BTW..I have cut bunches of oil filters up in the past..they are not made any worse than others.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by adc100

Considering billions and billions are sold..they are no more likely to fail than any other filter. I have changed hundreds of filters in my life..many were Fram. We are talking Urban Legend to the Max

https://theeffectiveguide.com/fram-oil-filter-review/

BTW..I have cut bunches of oil filters up in the past..they are not made any worse than others.

By all means, go install it.

[N54Yankee]

Originally Posted by adc100

Considering billions and billions are sold..they are no more likely to fail than any other filter. I have changed hundreds of filters in my life..many were Fram. We are talking Urban Legend to the Max

https://theeffectiveguide.com/fram-oil-filter-review/

BTW..I have cut bunches of oil filters up in the past..they are not made any worse than others.

I once had a boat who’s engine was damaged by a fram oil filter failure. Required getting towed back to shore (23 miles). There are many thousands of similar failures due to cheap paper Fram filters. Your link is one guy named Kevin with a blog acct. I don’t know this Kevin guy but I do was stuck offshore in the Gulf of Mexico by Fram.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by adc100

Considering billions and billions are sold..they are no more likely to fail than any other filter. I have changed hundreds of filters in my life..many were Fram. We are talking Urban Legend to the Max

https://theeffectiveguide.com/fram-oil-filter-review/

BTW..I have cut bunches of oil filters up in the past..they are not made any worse than others.

Good God, who wrote that marketing crap? Poorly written. Fram makes an oil filter that lasts 75,000 miles for a light duty automotive application (vs. heavy truck application)? The one filter shown has a 5,000-mile duty cycle? LOL. The MANN filter for the N52/54 lasts easily 3 times that mileage. You say the MANN filter "probably" has a 50% efficiency rating. Where does the frame say it has a 99%?

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Good God, who wrote that marketing crap? Poorly written. Fram makes an oil filter that lasts 75,000 miles for a light duty automotive application (vs. heavy truck application)? The one filter shown has a 5,000-mile duty cycle? LOL. The MANN filter for the N52/54 lasts easily 3 times that mileage. You say the MANN filter "probably" has a 50% efficiency rating. Where does the frame say it has a 99%?

Don't feed the troll. /Cough/ "engineer"

[GuidoK]

Fram also doesnt have the best of names here in Europe I'm afraid....

Mann, Knecht or Bosch are here usually the choice of experts (bosch has some specialty filters like HEPA grade (or the EU equivalent) interior filters; good for people with allergies or respatory issues).
Mann being an overall good aftermarket filter, Knecht (Mahle group) usually the OEM manufacturer.

I usually use Mann. Sometimes Febi (known rebrander) when Mann or Knecht is ridiculously expensive as Febi usually uses OEM stuff. There are some other rebranders here of carparts that also use OEM stuff, but that usually requires some digging
These rebranders are probably not active in the US (febi probaby isnt either).

Just dont use a shit filter and be sure to swap filters each interval. Personally I think certain manufacturers intervals on some filters are too long. Don't forget interior filters (usually a pain to get to) and fuel filters especially with diesel engines

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Fram also doesnt have the best of names here in Europe I'm afraid....

Mann, Knecht or Bosch are here usually the choice of experts.
Mann being an overall good aftermarket filter, Knecht (Mahle group) usually the OEM manufacturer.

I usually use Mann. Sometimes Febi (known rebrander) when Mann or Knecht is ridiculously expensive as Febi usually uses OEM stuff. There are some other rebranders here of carparts that also use OEM stuff, but that usually requires some digging
These rebranders are probably not active in the US (febi probaby isnt either).

Just dont use a shit filter and be sure to swap filters each interval. Personally I think certain manufacturers intervals on some filters are too long. Don't forget interior filters (usually a pain to get to) and fuel filters especially with diesel engines

Febi is absolutely available in the US. Always a solid choice as a backup for me if the primary OEMs are too pricey.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by adc100

See the video
https://www.fram.com/products/consum...ic-oil-filter/

Just trying to help here. Use whatever filter you feel is best. No skin off my dck


Them:

So was I trying to help; the OEM filter is also rated at 20 microns and presented the information stating such. You basically called BS (with no proof), so it kinda did sound like skin off your dck.

[chetrickerman]

For the record, the Fram filters got a bad rap because they used cardboard end caps on the filters, which do come apart. BUT the fram XG (synthetic media) filters use steel end caps like most other good brands and I have had great experience with those.

Thank you for the info OP.

It would be interesting to find out the actual efficiency of the OEM filters at 20 microns. Yes a filter may be rated at 20 microns, but that rating may only be at 50%, or 90% efficiency of 20 micron particles.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

For the record, the Fram filters got a bad rap because they used cardboard end caps on the filters, which do come apart. BUT the fram XG (synthetic media) filters use steel end caps like most other good brands and I have had great experience with those.

Thank you for the info OP.

It would be interesting to find out the actual efficiency of the OEM filters at 20 microns. Yes a filter may be rated at 20 microns, but that rating may only be at 50%, or 90% efficiency of 20 micron particles.

It would. My engine longevity experience says it most likely has a high beta rating. Advanced Auto parts shows efficiency rating of 99 at 38 microns. It shows "99mc" for efficiency, which indicates the unit of measure is not correct, so one can question the validity of Advanced's information.

[G35POPPEDMYCHERRY]

yall better be using MOBIL gas as well. shit got synergy bro

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

It would be interesting to find out the actual efficiency of the OEM filters at 20 microns. Yes a filter may be rated at 20 microns, but that rating may only be at 50%, or 90% efficiency of 20 micron particles.

You can also ask the question, how fast does a filter clog when the filtersize gets too small?
Whats worse, a clogged filter or a less effective filter? This is of course more about the filter size issu like the link in the TS hints at than filter efficiency, but more on that later in my views below. (I quote you but my post is not solely directed to your post but more to the whole oil filter debate, so not everything written here is not directed personal to your post)

I have difficulty with some of the intial link claims, where they relate particle size in oil to size between piston rings.
As a rule of thumb, the oil is not really an issue for piston rings, as there is an oil scraper ring first. That removes ALL the oil, or so is its function. If that wasnt the case, your engine becomes an oil burner. So oil never reaches the piston rings.
The reason why oil is shot up the piston (underside) is for cooling of the piston and lubrication of the skirt (that tolerance is huge), NOT for lubricating the piston rings. Thats also the reason piston rings are made of very special material (certainly not oil lubricated bearing material).
So the piston ring size tolerance can never be a valid argument for particle size in oil.
Rodbearing, camshaft bearing etc et however CAN.
On those type of bearings, tolerance is usually 25-35µm, so those size particles and above are important
So if a filter removes typical 20µm+ (doesn't even have to be in single pass) thats fine imho. The rest (smaller stuff) is just extra clogging material.
And I say that it doesnt have to be single pass, because an engine also doesnt work that way. Most people dont know this, but lots of oil filter housings (certainly all bmw oil filter housings) have a bypass on the filter.
This is a failsave on a clogged/collapsing filter (a clogged filter would otherwise starve the engine of oil, destroying it in a few miles).
But the filterhousing and its bypass isn't constructed in such a way that the bypass only opens when the filter is clogged! Its open all the time.
My guess is, that this is done to minimize pressure difference on the filter, as that is the main reason a filter can impact on itself, clogging the canals (it doesnt even have to be clogged itself', impacting on itself, even when the filter is 100% clean is enough).
It is constructed in a way of course that a large partion of the oil is sent to the filter and a smaller part goes through the bypass,unless I totally misunderstood the filterhousing as I examined it.
I build my own custom filterhousing (altering one from another car/enginetype) on my z4 to make certain features possible, and in my view that separation between the 2 canals was done based on flow (canal size) rather than pressure (no pressure valve, the only valve present is a one way valve that sits in the filterhousing is there to prevent drainback to the sump as the pressure is kept on the system by another valve, I think in the head, like in that fram video its silicone and integrated in the filter, with bmw its metal and integrated in the oil filter housing).

And, that TS link somehow also gives the impression that other brands dont have filters that filter sub 20µm because they cant make them that way.
I'll let you in on a secret: a normal coffee filter (cost $0,02) is a perfect 5µm single pass filter.
Making a very fine filter is no challenge.
Making the right filter is.

So I'm very sceptical about stuff that deviates from OEM, because of bigger is always better (or here smaller is always better), because it aint.
A company like knecht, who both develops specifically oil filters and makes high end oil filter housings knows what they're doing. (a bmw M oilfilterhousing is made by knecht, in germany, and a normal bmw filterhousing is not as complicated of design and is made in italy by an italian OEM)
So unless a particular type of engine has a real wear problem where the wear problems for sure point to contaminated oil, I wouldnt change the filter capacity spec etc.

As counterreaction tot the above: lots of M engines have a wear problem on conrod bearings But as its not present in crankbearings or camshaftbearings with the same spec, its not instigated by particle contaminents in the oil. Also the wearpatterns dont point to contamientissues but rather cavitation and such.

What that fram video means by exceeding OEM spec. In what way as that is extremely important.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by chetrickerman

For the record, the Fram filters got a bad rap because they used cardboard end caps on the filters, which do come apart. BUT the fram XG (synthetic media) filters use steel end caps like most other good brands and I have had great experience with those.

Thank you for the info OP.

It would be interesting to find out the actual efficiency of the OEM filters at 20 microns. Yes a filter may be rated at 20 microns, but that rating may only be at 50%, or 90% efficiency of 20 micron particles.

You are welcome. Yea..the fiver/cardboard encps I believe are still used. I doubt that the failure rate among any commercial filters are different. Obviously all will suffer failures. I believe Amsoil has a 20 micron filter @ 99%. The rest just play games.

Take care.

[adc100]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

You can also ask the question, how fast does a filter clog when the filtersize gets too small? .

Most filters are paper media type so that is a concern. High end filters like Ultra have fiberglass depth media which will not plug as a practical matter (research it don't take my word for it)

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by adc100

Most filters are paper media type so that is a concern. High end filters like Ultra have fiberglass depth media which will not plug as a practical matter (research it don't take my word for it)

Every filter clogs up eventually as these filters have no cleaning system that transports the cake.
Surface area is a key factor here.
Also Fram doesn't dare to extend that life as they state not to overdue the manufacturers recommended service interval.
They only say it'll last 20k miles with synthetic, which is the service interval of every modern car nowadays (my 10 year old volvo has that....)
Once there comes a manufacturer that has an engine with 30k recommended interval, Fram'll change their claims that it'll last 30k miles.
The max. filterlife to which fram attaches their quality claim isn't so much the result of the filter used but a result of the quality of the engine and how much it pollutes itself.
Thats the logical conclusion of both claims Fram makes.

I'm sure its a very good filter (although fram has made rubbish from the gutter) but it doesnt exceed OEM filter specs imho. not that they dare to put that on paper and guarantee it at least..

[adc100]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Every filter clogs up eventually as these filters have no cleaning system that transports the cake.
Surface area is a key factor here. .

Its not possible to calculate "surface area" of a depth media. It is solid retension ability and that varies dpending on the size of the particle. Lke I said cheap filters are "paper". Their surface area can be calculated.