[LakeSurfer]

Hello,
I have an 11 E93 M3 that I picked up several months ago and I'm curious about the services intervals displayed on the I drive.

I did spark plugs, oil and a few other things the day I bought the car. At that time I noted the dates and milage that the I drive displayed. It's now been several months and 3,000 mild later but the information stayed the same.

Example I changed the oil and it said 8,000 miles to the next change. Drive it 3,000 miles and it still says 8000 miles. Can this be reset or is the system not working properly? Or what am I doing wrong? All the other service intervals are unchanged since initial purchase.

Thanks in advance.

-Mark

[ctuna]

The oil service recall for what is called condition based service
is not something I would follow and don't .
Also this is kind of dumbass design because its a software down
counter and apparently cannot be reset once it goes to zero.
I don't reset my counter because I know I only have 39 resets in
it. See thread at the bottom of the page. (until it says to )

If you are looking for a schedule that will actually maintain your car
in pretty good condition it would be something more like an old school
schedule where you change your oil and filter at least once a year
or 5 to 7.5k and your fluids and filters at 30 to 60k depending on what they
are.

Look up the Mike Miller schedule.
(in georges links)

georges links
https://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/at...9&d=1539905743

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...=1#post8782350

[Efthreeoh]

Did you reset the CBS?

The oil monitor is not a simple as a software down counter; some of the other CBS items are simple count down routines. The oil life monitor takes in a whole lot of different metrics such as fuel consumption, cold starts, engine temperature profiles, engine speed profiles, etc. It also uses actual oil quality measurements via the oil sensor. But the CBS doesn't work as designed unless you reset the maintenance events when completed. For example if the CBS for the M3's engine tells you when the spark plugs are due for a change at 100,000 mile intervals, the CBS needs to be reset to start the count over. It's the same for inspection notifications.

Brakes are like the engine oil monitor and are based off of a wear rate of the pads collected from the pad wear sensor.

[ctuna]

Apparently you are not reading what it says .
It doesn't say it doesn't compute a change things based on the Sensor.
Or the two year down counter that is programmed in.
It just says you only get so many resets before it doesn't work
anymore which is after you have reset the oil service indicator
39 times.

And you did not read about the TSB to fix this by essentially disabling
the entire oil recall system once the down counter has reached its limit.

Read this

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=926864

https://www.e90post.com/forums/attac...1&d=1387631022

[LakeSurfer]

Perhaps I'm not understanding how the system is supposed to work but the problem is, nothing has changed. If the system uses several parameters to determine the oil quality, then it's telling me that my oil is like new after 3,000 miles of driving? The brake life left on front and rear hasn't changed either

-Mark

[ctuna]

https://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=260074

This system has been the source of a lot complacency anguish
and consternation for BMW owners. You either buy into or you don't.

Also when you go to check your oil level be aware the gauge only
read the top quart our of 7 quarts of oil . And it takes about 10 to 20
minutes of driving before it updates the gauge. If you are adding oil
you have to drive the car for 10 to 20 minutes before it will take
reading. Some people that are not aware of this overfill there car.

If you let the CBS rule your oil changes you will be doing 16 k plus oil changes and may be risking sludge build up.

Note that toward the end of the e90 lifecyle they went to 10k max oil changes.

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

Originally Posted by LakeSurfer

Perhaps I'm not understanding how the system is supposed to work but the problem is, nothing has changed. If the system uses several parameters to determine the oil quality, then it's telling me that my oil is like new after 3,000 miles of driving? The brake life left on front and rear hasn't changed either

-Mark

It will eventually catch itself up. When I first reset my oil change interval in May it gave me around 13,000 miles and 2 years. It's now dropped to 8,000 miles and 1 year, right on target for when I was planning to change my oil again. I typically drive 12,000 miles per year, so it's pretty close. By the time May 2020 rolls around it'll probably be within 1,000 miles.

Your brakes are an estimate based on mileage and a few other factors, but the most important one is the two-stage sensor. Once the first stage is hit, the maintenance mileage will decrease drastically and be a fairly realistic expectation of when you'll need to change your brakes.

My rears were changed about 3 years ago. It had given me something like 60,000 miles on the counter. It's around 13,000 now.

[LakeSurfer]

I wasn't planning on using the prescribed intervals as I usually do routine maintenance way way early anyway. It would be nice though if it would work properly opposed to being so abstract. I guess there's to much liability in just doing a simple countdown? In a high performance car I would expect a little more realistic engineering instead of an over engineered complex useless system. Thank god for depreciation. I think I'd be pissed at a few of the "Features" had I payed the new $85k sticker price.

I would much rather have a dipstick then the digital only readout. My first oil change I over filled the oil by a half quart but only found that out after the 15 minute warm up and then I drained out to much and found that out again after another 15 minute warm up. It's a learning curve but I've got it under control now, somewhat.

Thanks fellas

-Mark

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ctuna

Apparently you are not reading what it says .
It doesn't say it doesn't compute a change things based on the Sensor.
Or the two year down counter that is programmed in.
It just says you only get so many resets before it doesn't work
anymore which is after you have reset the oil service indicator
39 times.

And you did not read about the TSB to fix this by essentially disabling
the entire oil recall system once the down counter has reached its limit.

Read this

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=926864

https://www.e90post.com/forums/attac...1&d=1387631022

I read what it said... I wrote it six years ago; that is my thread and a copy of the TSB I got from the dealer when I took my car in to diagnose why the oil life monitor stopped working.

What is not clear is if the issue applies to the M3. It may be just an N52 issue.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by LakeSurfer

I wasn't planning on using the prescribed intervals as I usually do routine maintenance way way early anyway. It would be nice though if it would work properly opposed to being so abstract. I guess there's to much liability in just doing a simple countdown? In a high performance car I would expect a little more realistic engineering instead of an over engineered complex useless system. Thank god for depreciation. I think I'd be pissed at a few of the "Features" had I payed the new $85k sticker price.

I would much rather have a dipstick then the digital only readout. My first oil change I over filled the oil by a half quart but only found that out after the 15 minute warm up and then I drained out to much and found that out again after another 15 minute warm up. It's a learning curve but I've got it under control now, somewhat.

Thanks fellas

-Mark

I've posted ad nauseam about how the CBS works, how the e-dipstick works, and that my car has lasted to 384,000 so far basically following the CBS. The system works quite well actually. You over filled the engine because you used an antiquated method for changing the oil for an engine that has a mechanical dipstick. For the BMW engines without a mechanical dipstick, you drain the oil, change the filter, and refill with 7 quarts. That's it, no guess work.

Granted, BMW did a lousy job explaining how the CBS works and gave no information about how to change the oil and the different oil fill procedure. When the E90 came out there was no easily found technical information about how to service it. I figured out how the e-dipstick mostly through my own through observation and later when BMW technical data surfaced about the N52.

Again, when you did the recent services, did you reset the CBS? The brake interval estimate is not changing because you are driving the car differently than the previous owner. The mileage estimate is based on set parameters built into the brake wear algorithm and the time and mileage when the 2-stage pad wear sensor breaks the first stage. Once the sensor breaks the second stage (loop of wire), the pad change notification comes on. Brake system maintenance is pretty simple on the E9X. 24-month brake fluid flushes and wait for the pad notification to illuminate. If the brake system has been correctly maintained in accordance with BMW requirements, meaning no previous owner has screwed with it by electrically tying off the sensors or not correctly resetting the system, it works nearly flawlessly. BMW has been using brake pad wear sensors since the 1980's. The E90's brake pad wear system is just a bit more sophisticated.

[LakeSurfer]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've posted ad nauseam about how the CBS works, how the e-dipstick works, and that my car has lasted to 384,000 so far basically following the CBS. The system works quite well actually. You over filled the engine because you used an antiquated method for changing the oil for an engine that has a mechanical dipstick. For the BMW engines without a mechanical dipstick, you drain the oil, change the filter, and refill with 7 quarts. That's it, no guess work.

Granted, BMW did a lousy job explaining how the CBS works and gave no information about how to change the oil and the different oil fill procedure. When the E90 came out there was no easily found technical information about how to service it. I figured out how the e-dipstick mostly through my own through observation and later when BMW technical data surfaced about the N52.

Again, when you did the recent services, did you reset the CBS? The brake interval estimate is not changing because you are driving the car differently than the previous owner. The mileage estimate is based on set parameters built into the brake wear algorithm and the time and mileage when the 2-stage pad wear sensor breaks the first stage. Once the sensor breaks the second stage (loop of wire), the pad change notification comes on. Brake system maintenance is pretty simple on the E9X. 24-month brake fluid flushes and wait for the pad notification to illuminate. If the brake system has been correctly maintained in accordance with BMW requirements, meaning no previous owner has screwed with it by electrically tying off the sensors or not correctly resetting the system, it works nearly flawlessly. BMW has been using brake pad wear sensors since the 1980's. The E90's brake pad wear system is just a bit more sophisticated.

7 quarts? Yikes! Considering the S65 in the M3 holds around 9 liters, roughly 9.5 quarts, id say 7 is a major fail. Changing oil to a car for the first time, second time or even the 100th time is always guess work to me. I don't know exactly how much oil remained in the engine after it was drained and therefore i wouldn't know exactly how much to add unless i took the time to measure the old oil but i dont and i wont. This is a little extreme as you should get very close after you do it the first time. Either way with a mechanical dipstick all you need to do is add oil, fire it up and check the stick and adjust according. I may be slightly OCD but I like to have the oil level right in the middle. This way I know for certain if i'm burning oil or not. because i consistently fill to the exact same level. But with the BMW its a little more tricky with getting it to full operating temp before I have the slightest idea of where the oil is.

That being said, it should be self explanatory to figure out the system and the fact that you've explained it to nausea tells me its faulty, very faulty. i bought the car with 36,000 miles on it and instantly changed the oil. I did not reset anything because there was nothing to reset. the car did say to change oil in 8,000 miles. I drove the car 3,000 miles and it still shows to change it in 8,000 miles. now if the system reset is at 17,000 miles for an oil change and the system uses oil logging data to determine oil life left then why wouldn't it reset itself? Why would you ever need to reset it?

It does appear that the dates are screwd up as well. the last oil change via carfax was 5/14/2018 at 33k miles and the iDrive shows a date of next due at 5/14/2020 add the 8k miles and it would be due at 47k miles.

at the end of the day it doesn't really matter as i do oil at 5,000 miles regardless what anyone says. its only $100 and takes an hour, plus its fun for me sooooo...... I win either way.

Perhaps the CBS is a good system, it just doesn't function the way i would want it to nor expect it to.

-Mark

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by LakeSurfer

7 quarts? Yikes! Considering the S65 in the M3 holds around 9 liters, roughly 9.5 quarts, id say 7 is a major fail. Changing oil to a car for the first time, second time or even the 100th time is always guess work to me. I don't know exactly how much oil remained in the engine after it was drained and therefore i wouldn't know exactly how much to add unless i took the time to measure the old oil but i dont and i wont. This is a little extreme as you should get very close after you do it the first time. Either way with a mechanical dipstick all you need to do is add oil, fire it up and check the stick and adjust according. I may be slightly OCD but I like to have the oil level right in the middle. This way I know for certain if i'm burning oil or not. because i consistently fill to the exact same level. But with the BMW its a little more tricky with getting it to full operating temp before I have the slightest idea of where the oil is.

That being said, it should be self explanatory to figure out the system and the fact that you've explained it to nausea tells me its faulty, very faulty. i bought the car with 36,000 miles on it and instantly changed the oil. I did not reset anything because there was nothing to reset. the car did say to change oil in 8,000 miles. I drove the car 3,000 miles and it still shows to change it in 8,000 miles. now if the system reset is at 17,000 miles for an oil change and the system uses oil logging data to determine oil life left then why wouldn't it reset itself? Why would you ever need to reset it?

It does appear that the dates are screwd up as well. the last oil change via carfax was 5/14/2018 at 33k miles and the iDrive shows a date of next due at 5/14/2020 add the 8k miles and it would be due at 47k miles.

at the end of the day it doesn't really matter as i do oil at 5,000 miles regardless what anyone says. its only $100 and takes an hour, plus its fun for me sooooo...... I win either way.

Perhaps the CBS is a good system, it just doesn't function the way i would want it to nor expect it to.

-Mark

7 quarts is sump refill capacity for the N52/54/55 straight 6 used I the E9X, which is what I was referring to. So the point is if the S65 in the M3 takes 9 quarts for oil change, then that is the amount with which you refill the engine. Being OCD and using the e-dipstick is not a good combination. If you are one of those owners that tops off the oil level every time the (mechanical) dipstick reads 2MM below max fill, then you are going to have issues owning the M3. The distance between the low mark and top mark on the dipstick indicates the safe range of an oil level to operate the engine with. Mechanical dipstick engines have always been like that, it just no one ever reads the owner's manual. Every car owners manual tells the owner the the marks on the dipstick indicate the safe oil level and to keep the oil level between the marks.

I'm typing on my phone so I'm not going to go into detail how the oil sensor works now. But I posted about a year ago in explicit detail how the oil sensor/CBS works. Find that thread, read it, and then you'll understand why adding oil or changing oil does not automatically reset the system. In short, the oil change algorithm uses time as one of the variables to calculate the change interval. Resetting the CBS restarts the time variable.

The reason the CBS says 5/2020 is because the short mileage interval is 24 months in Europe. That means if within 2 years you don't drive the car long enough distance to trigger the CBS notification based on mileage, you revert to the biennial oil service interval. In the US the low miles change interval is annual rather than every two years.

But really, learn the new system and don't expect it to mimic what you are used to. The CBS concept is different, but gives the same results, you just use a different process to get there. It's not faulty, it's different. BMW doesn't explain it well because 99% of BMW owners are not involved in the maintenance process of their car and just take it to the dealer. As an enthusiast, you should adapt to the hardware you've acquired and not expect it to conform to what you know as norms. That's not a flame, I'm trying to help you understand your car.

I understand your frustrations with the newness of this to you. I came to the E90 from an E30. But once I figured out the CBS concept, I've adapted to it. At 384,000 on my E90, I can say I have it well figured out.

[ctuna]

Seems the oil recall interval in the CBS is the same here.
2 years even though the warranty manual says change once
a year. And you could demand that as part of the warranty
if you knew about despite some dealers say to follow the CBS.

[LakeSurfer]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

7 quarts is sump refill capacity for the N52/54/55 straight 6 used I the E9X, which is what I was referring to. So the point is if the S65 in the M3 takes 9 quarts for oil change, then that is the amount with which you refill the engine. Being OCD and using the e-dipstick is not a good combination. If you are one of those owners that tops off the oil level every time the (mechanical) dipstick reads 2MM below max fill, then you are going to have issues owning the M3. The distance between the low mark and top mark on the dipstick indicates the safe range of an oil level to operate the engine with. Mechanical dipstick engines have always been like that, it just no one ever reads the owner's manual. Every car owners manual tells the owner the the marks on the dipstick indicate the safe oil level and to keep the oil level between the marks.

I'm typing on my phone so I'm not going to go into detail how the oil sensor works now. But I posted about a year ago in explicit detail how the oil sensor/CBS works. Find that thread, read it, and then you'll understand why adding oil or changing oil does not automatically reset the system. In short, the oil change algorithm uses time as one of the variables to calculate the change interval. Resetting the CBS restarts the time variable.

The reason the CBS says 5/2020 is because the short mileage interval is 24 months in Europe. That means if within 2 years you don't drive the car long enough distance to trigger the CBS notification based on mileage, you revert to the biennial oil service interval. In the US the low miles change interval is annual rather than every two years.

But really, learn the new system and don't expect it to mimic what you are used to. The CBS concept is different, but gives the same results, you just use a different process to get there. It's not faulty, it's different. BMW doesn't explain it well because 99% of BMW owners are not involved in the maintenance process of their car and just take it to the dealer. As an enthusiast, you should adapt to the hardware you've acquired and not expect it to conform to what you know as norms. That's not a flame, I'm trying to help you understand your car.

I understand your frustrations with the newness of this to you. I came to the E90 from an E30. But once I figured out the CBS concept, I've adapted to it. At 384,000 on my E90, I can say I have it well figured out.

Damn 384,000? nice work weather thats in KM or MPH, its impressive.

I agree that I should adapt, thats why these cars have a premium price after all. Its just so hard to trust any electrical sensor as golden. I blew up a motor cycle engine due to a bad sensor. partially my fault but i relied to heavily for things to work far better than they did. I like the physical, mechanical proof to back up systems though.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain as it does motivate me further to understand what im dealing with.

So in order to reset anything it has to be "coded" through carly app or wait until you get a message, because I technically changed the oil way early?

-Mark

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by LakeSurfer

Damn 384,000? nice work weather thats in KM or MPH, its impressive.

I agree that I should adapt, thats why these cars have a premium price after all. Its just so hard to trust any electrical sensor as golden. I blew up a motor cycle engine due to a bad sensor. partially my fault but i relied to heavily for things to work far better than they did. I like the physical, mechanical proof to back up systems though.

I appreciate you taking the time to explain as it does motivate me further to understand what im dealing with.

So in order to reset anything it has to be "coded" through carly app or wait until you get a message, because I technically changed the oil way early?

-Mark

You can call up the CBS menu with the turn signal stalk and reset each menu item. The procedure is to put the car in ignition mode (push start button but with no foot on the brake), then hold down the mile reset stem in the cluster, wait for the triangle to come up, then release the stem. The CBS menu comes up. It works this way for non-idrive versions. I drive maybe slightly different. How to do it in idrive is on E90 Post somewhere. Or better is with a BMW scan tool.

The oil sensor is a very simple device. It rarely breaks nor gives false readings.

With engine oil, people have their preferences. With the S65, which is prone to have big-end bearing issues, I'd go with a change schedule you are comfortable with. The M3 subforum can fill you in.