[S6K]

I am in the market for a pure stage 2 turbo and after doing some browsing I am curious on what is the most popular fueling set up. It appears that there is the option between running a HPFP such as the XDI-35, e85 with a LPFP and PI, or a stage 3 snow kit with a LPFP. Due to the fact that the closest e85 is about ~25 miles from my location, I am leaning towards a snow meth kit with a Walbro LPFP but I am curious if just upgrading the HPFP right out of the gate is a better decision. Correct me if I am wrong but there is now more affordable options than the XDI-35 that are also reliable? In the older threads that I dug up it seemed like the XDI-35 was pretty much the only option, but I see now other HPFPs are on the market such as the Spool FX-150. Would running the snow kit be a more economical path to 480-500whp? Basically, what is the "go to" fueling set up that most people have the best experience with. I also created this thread partially because I struggled to find a thread that discussed the different fueling options without hopping around from thread to thread, I think this thread could be very helpful to people in my position that are looking to go PS2. Thanks in advance, I really appreciate it.

[Munchi435i]

Keep it simple and go with upgraded HPFP, run e40ish custom tune.

[R1d3r]

I'm interested as well what could be the best option for PS2

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by kdevito757

I am in the market for a pure stage 2 turbo and after doing some browsing I am curious on what is the most popular fueling set up. It appears that there is the option between running a HPFP such as the XDI-35, e85 with a LPFP and PI, or a stage 3 snow kit with a LPFP. Due to the fact that the closest e85 is about ~25 miles from my location, I am leaning towards a snow meth kit with a Walbro LPFP but I am curious if just upgrading the HPFP right out of the gate is a better decision. Correct me if I am wrong but there is now more affordable options than the XDI-35 that are also reliable? In the older threads that I dug up it seemed like the XDI-35 was pretty much the only option, but I see now other HPFPs are on the market such as the Spool FX-150. Would running the snow kit be a more economical path to 480-500whp? Basically, what is the "go to" fueling set up that most people have the best experience with. I also created this thread partially because I struggled to find a thread that discussed the different fueling options without hopping around from thread to thread, I think this thread could be very helpful to people in my position that are looking to go PS2. Thanks in advance, I really appreciate it.

The "go to" fueling setup is upgraded HPFP. It's the simplest in that it does not require additional systems/controllers to be added as in the case with WMI or PI. The key question upfront is how good your pump gas fuel quality is and if you are willing to mix ethanol all the time. If your pump gas isn't great and you dont want to deal with mixing ethanol, WMI might be the way to go with stock HPFP and stock LPFP. If you want to mix some ethanol all the time (E30-E50), get a upgraded HPFP and keep stock LPFP. If you want to try and go full E85 with PS2 (uncommon and probably not my recommendation), you will need stage 2 HPFP, likely a LPFP and EKP. Alternatively for full E85 you could go PI and in that case you 100% need LPFP and EKP.

Let's break it down by component:

LPFP - You basically don't need this unless you are running PI, especially for your power level. The small asterisk would be if you wanted to try and push full E85 out of a stage 2 HPFP at 500+whp, but its uncommon to go full E85 as you get the majority of the benefits of ethanol without some drawbacks by going to E30-E50. You certainly dont need it with stock HPFP, so I don't know why you think you would need a LPFP with a meth kit, especially if you are using the meth for supplemental fueling. Also note if you do go upgraded LPFP and are demanding a lot of fuel from it, you will likely need to upgrade your EKP or you will probably fry the stock one.

HPFP - Most popular and simplest option since you just install the pump and the DME retains control of everything. You really only need this if you are going to get a ethanol mix tune with the PS2. If you are going to stick to pump gas + WMI with the PS2, there really isnt a need to get a HPFP with your target power level. If you are going to get HPFP and go ethanol mix tune, you probably want to install an ethanol sensor while you are in there. Yes, there are numerous options now. XDI was the monopoly for a while, now there is spool, dorch, etc.

PI - essentially the most complex in terms of both the install/supporting parts required and the control. You will need the LPFP (and EKP generally), the PI hardware (injectors, fuel rail, lines, etc), and the PI controller, and then a custom tune. Doable, but not he easiest nor the most popular.

WMI - somewhat popular, requires of course the full meth kit (tank, lines, nozzle, controller, etc) and generally speaking a custom tune to fully take advantage of it, although you can always spray meth on a OTS map and just take all the negative fuel corrections. You will need a custom tune to get to your power level though, unless BM3 comes out with a stage 2+ OTS race gas map for PWG or something. This is probably the route to go if you dont want to deal with mixing ethanol, then you can get the WMI kit and retain stock LPFP and HPFP. The HPFP should do OK even with PS2 on pump gas, although you might be near its fueling limit and relying on the WMI to some extent for fueling.

So basically, decide what fuel you want to run and go from there.

[S6K]

Wow thejeremyman9 thank you so much for this detailed write up... I'm sure this will help a lot of people. For my individual purposes, I plan on just sticking to pump 93 so the WMI route seems like my best bet. As far as my reasoning for the upgraded LPFP I spoke to another member (@grndtour_f30 on instagram) who said I would need the LPFP if I plan to hit around 500whp with ps2 and meth. I think as of now I plan on doing a custom tune through Wedge. From my understanding the HPFP will essentially be maxed out supplying the pump gas. After reading your reply and thinking through it I'm not really too sure why an upgraded LPFP would be necessary with the WMI route.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by kdevito757

Wow thejeremyman9 thank you so much for this detailed write up... I'm sure this will help a lot of people. For my individual purposes, I plan on just sticking to pump 93 so the WMI route seems like my best bet. As far as my reasoning for the upgraded LPFP I spoke to another member (@grndtour_f30 on instagram) who said I would need the LPFP if I plan to hit around 500whp with ps2 and meth. I think as of now I plan on doing a custom tune through Wedge. From my understanding the HPFP will essentially be maxed out supplying the pump gas. After reading your reply and thinking through it I'm not really too sure why an upgraded LPFP would be necessary with the WMI route.

If you are going to stick to pump gas, you don't need a upgraded LPFP. With pump gas, WMI might be the way to go as long as you are comfortable with adding in all the components required to run it.

Given that the WMI install doesn't really overlap with a PS2 install (in terms of labor savings), you might just want to install the PS2 first and go from there. The main consideration will be how good your 93 is - not all 93 is created equal. Some people have poor quality 93 to the point they cant even run 91 octane maps without poor timing (around NY seems to be common), other people can run the 93 map with nearly flawless timing (FL seems to be common for this). How good your 93 is will determine how much power you can make with the PS2 without the WMI. You might be able to make mid 400s without a problem on completely stock fuel system without WMI. Then you can decide if you want to push higher with WMI, gaining the extra octane (more timing) and extra fueling (more boost).

Edit: if you have logs right now for your current setup running your 93 pump gas post them up.

[yoandry]

With 93 on stock fulling you will be around 17psi, anything + will crash the hpfp.

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by yoandry

With 93 on stock fulling you will be around 17psi, anything + will crash the hpfp.

With PS2 you mean? With stock turbo you can get up close to 20psi on pump gas with stock HPFP. PS2 will be flowing more and be more efficient at a given boost level though.

[yoandry]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

With PS2 you mean? With stock turbo you can get up close to 20psi on pump gas with stock HPFP. PS2 will be flowing more and be more efficient at a given boost level though.

Yes, ps2 of course.

[rjd_F30]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

The "go to" fueling setup is upgraded HPFP. It's the simplest in that it does not require additional systems/controllers to be added as in the case with WMI or PI. The key question upfront is how good your pump gas fuel quality is and if you are willing to mix ethanol all the time. If your pump gas isn't great and you dont want to deal with mixing ethanol, WMI might be the way to go with stock HPFP and stock LPFP. If you want to mix some ethanol all the time (E30-E50), get a upgraded HPFP and keep stock LPFP. If you want to try and go full E85 with PS2 (uncommon and probably not my recommendation), you will need stage 2 HPFP, likely a LPFP and EKP. Alternatively for full E85 you could go PI and in that case you 100% need LPFP and EKP.

Let's break it down by component:

LPFP - You basically don't need this unless you are running PI, especially for your power level. The small asterisk would be if you wanted to try and push full E85 out of a stage 2 HPFP at 500+whp, but its uncommon to go full E85 as you get the majority of the benefits of ethanol without some drawbacks by going to E30-E50. You certainly dont need it with stock HPFP, so I don't know why you think you would need a LPFP with a meth kit, especially if you are using the meth for supplemental fueling. Also note if you do go upgraded LPFP and are demanding a lot of fuel from it, you will likely need to upgrade your EKP or you will probably fry the stock one.

HPFP - Most popular and simplest option since you just install the pump and the DME retains control of everything. You really only need this if you are going to get a ethanol mix tune with the PS2. If you are going to stick to pump gas + WMI with the PS2, there really isnt a need to get a HPFP with your target power level. If you are going to get HPFP and go ethanol mix tune, you probably want to install an ethanol sensor while you are in there. Yes, there are numerous options now. XDI was the monopoly for a while, now there is spool, dorch, etc.

PI - essentially the most complex in terms of both the install/supporting parts required and the control. You will need the LPFP (and EKP generally), the PI hardware (injectors, fuel rail, lines, etc), and the PI controller, and then a custom tune. Doable, but not he easiest nor the most popular.

WMI - somewhat popular, requires of course the full meth kit (tank, lines, nozzle, controller, etc) and generally speaking a custom tune to fully take advantage of it, although you can always spray meth on a OTS map and just take all the negative fuel corrections. You will need a custom tune to get to your power level though, unless BM3 comes out with a stage 2+ OTS race gas map for PWG or something. This is probably the route to go if you dont want to deal with mixing ethanol, then you can get the WMI kit and retain stock LPFP and HPFP. The HPFP should do OK even with PS2 on pump gas, although you might be near its fueling limit and relying on the WMI to some extent for fueling.

So basically, decide what fuel you want to run and go from there.

So it sounds like if you want to stick to pump gas and run no Ethanol, you have to run WMI? Is there a way to run PS2 on pump without WMI, just doing pump upgrades?

[yoandry]

Originally Posted by rjd_F30

So it sounds like if you want to stick to pump gas and run no Ethanol, you have to run WMI? Is there a way to run PS2 on pump without WMI, just doing pump upgrades?

You can just upgrade the hpfp, no need for wmi. The downside is that you wont get the cool effect that wmi gives you beside octane. Ofcourse, unless you are in cold state/country.

[Logicoeur]

One thing I haven't seen is anyone run a larger turbo like PS2, but on completely stock fueling. No pump upgrades, no additional octane. Am I just missing the threads/posts? What would numbers look like with just pump fuel (Eg. 93)?

[S6K]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

One thing I haven't seen is anyone run a larger turbo like PS2, but on completely stock fueling. No pump upgrades, no additional octane. Am I just missing the threads/posts? What would numbers look like with just pump fuel (Eg. 93)?

MHD has a OTS map for PS2 that claims up to 460whp on 95oct/102ron for EWG RWD models. Assuming good 93 would produce around 430-440rwhp on a maxed out stock HPFP.

[S6K]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

If you are going to stick to pump gas, you don't need a upgraded LPFP. With pump gas, WMI might be the way to go as long as you are comfortable with adding in all the components required to run it.

Given that the WMI install doesn't really overlap with a PS2 install (in terms of labor savings), you might just want to install the PS2 first and go from there. The main consideration will be how good your 93 is - not all 93 is created equal. Some people have poor quality 93 to the point they cant even run 91 octane maps without poor timing (around NY seems to be common), other people can run the 93 map with nearly flawless timing (FL seems to be common for this). How good your 93 is will determine how much power you can make with the PS2 without the WMI. You might be able to make mid 400s without a problem on completely stock fuel system without WMI. Then you can decide if you want to push higher with WMI, gaining the extra octane (more timing) and extra fueling (more boost).

Edit: if you have logs right now for your current setup running your 93 pump gas post them up.

Thanks for this info. Car is at the shop rn getting new spark plugs and then I will record some logs this weekend.

[S6K]

so yoandry when your bio says HDI-35 pending you are planning to run an ethanol mix? From my understanding if you have PS2 + WMI then the only reason to install a HPFP would be to run e30/e50/e85 to make closer to 550whp along with the WMI correct?

[Munchi435i]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

One thing I haven't seen is anyone run a larger turbo like PS2, but on completely stock fueling. No pump upgrades, no additional octane. Am I just missing the threads/posts? What would numbers look like with just pump fuel (Eg. 93)?

I was running stock fueling with PS2 and MHD OTS PS2 93 pump tune for over a year. I would say its closer to 430whp not the 460whp that someone posted about. Perhaps he meant 460 to the crank.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

I was running stock fueling with PS2 and MHD OTS PS2 93 pump tune. I would its closer to 430whp not the 460whp that someone posted about. Perhaps he meant 460 to the crank.

EWG?

[S6K]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

I was running stock fueling with PS2 and MHD OTS PS2 93 pump tune. I would its closer to 430whp not the 460whp that someone posted about. Perhaps he meant 460 to the crank.

"Up to 460whp" is the number provided by MHD with 95oct/102ron. Around 430 makes sense on 93.

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by kdevito757

Electronic Wastegate version of the N55 motor. The EWG version has slightly larger exhaust turbine and a 4" downpipe compared to a 3.5" on the PWG (pneumatic wastegate)

I am asking if he is EWG, not what EWG is lol.

[S6K]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

I am asking if he is EWG, not what EWG is lol.

Yeah I realized that after I responded to you and deleted the comment

[Munchi435i]

Originally Posted by Logicoeur

I am asking if he is EWG, not what EWG is lol.

Yes EWG

[Logicoeur]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

Yes EWG

Shoot. As PWG AND xdrive I'd probably fall below the 400 mark.