[johnung]

Engine Log Gurus,
Please take a look at these logs. I did a lot of maintenance including new plugs and coils, and I flashed the latest tune version of BootMod3 N55 EWG Stage2 93 Octane v7.1 I'm rusty on reading logs so any input is appreciated.

I just located a source for E85 so I was going to try running the Stage2 E30 tune, but wanted to check engine health before messing with fueling. I have the impression that I just need to put about 5 gallons of E85 in the tank, fill the rest with 93 octane, and flash the new tune. 2015 335i

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fcc...729b3ef8b843ef

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fcc...729b3e6af88165

[Munchi435i]

Lots of timing corrections throughout each log. Rail pressure takes a slight dip after 4500rpms. There are 2 knock events in each log with the last log showing back to back knocks. I would not suggest running so much E85 as you mentioned and make sure you test both your pump gas and E85 before calculating mix. Most people add 3 gallons or so of E85 to 93 octane when aiming for E20-E25. If you are aiming to use the Ethanol maps start off adding a few gallons of E85, log and then keep progressing from there.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

Lots of timing corrections throughout each log. Rail pressure takes a slight dip after 4500rpms. There are 2 knock events in each log with the last log showing back to back knocks. I would not suggest running so much E85 as you mentioned and make sure you test both your pump gas and E85 before calculating mix. Most people add 3 gallons or so of E85 to 93 octane when aiming for E20-E25. If you are aiming to use the Ethanol maps start off adding a few gallons of E85, log and then keep progressing from there.

Thanks! I changed plugs and coils and it seemed to be running well on v6.4 of the BootMod3 Stage2 N55 EWG 93 Octane tune. But I didn't take a log before I flashed the newest version 7.1.

I think it makes sense to flash back to v6.4 and take some logs. If the timing clears up, then it's something with v7.1.

If there are still timing issues, then I'll try 93 octane from another station. If that doesn't fix the timing issues, then maybe something with the plugs.

They are NGK 97506 gapped down to 0.022" just as I've been using all along with Stage2.

[Munchi435i]

Your strategy sounds good to me. Do you often use the same gas station for your pump 93? Also, you could add 1-2 gallons of E85 to clean up your timing. My biggest concern is the two knock events in your log. Also, your HPFP takes a slight dip mid rpm. Im sure someone more advanced will chime in with a more in depth review.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

Your strategy sounds good to me. Do you often use the same gas station for your pump 93? Also, you could add 1-2 gallons of E85 to clean up your timing. My biggest concern is the two knock events in your log. Also, your HPFP takes a slight dip mid rpm. Im sure someone more advanced will chime in with a more in depth review.

Yes, I always buy my 93 octane gas at the same station, but I share the car with my wife so she's checking statements to see if she bought gas somewhere else recently. She does not think so.

I could also flash the same BootMod3 v7.1 but in the 91 octane version, and record some logs to see if these events clear up. Same with the older BootMod3 v6.4 in 93 octane and 91 octane versions.

Car only has 40k miles and has a perfect Blackstone oil report. These log events are unusual. I need to figure out what caused it: bad gasoline, something with the new tune upgrade, new plugs or their installation, new Eldor coils, etc. Unfortunately there is more than one variable that changed recently.
Thanks again!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by Munchi435i

Lots of timing corrections throughout each log. Rail pressure takes a slight dip after 4500rpms. There are 2 knock events in each log with the last log showing back to back knocks. I would not suggest running so much E85 as you mentioned and make sure you test both your pump gas and E85 before calculating mix. Most people add 3 gallons or so of E85 to 93 octane when aiming for E20-E25. If you are aiming to use the Ethanol maps start off adding a few gallons of E85, log and then keep progressing from there.

+1 for all of this basically.

Your boost target/control also looks a bit strange compared with other v7.1 logs. The boost target takes a while to reach its normal, flat value (nothing you can do about that, just looks different). However the boost control is also a little weird. In the first log you have a small throttle closure around 2500 rpm and then a bigger one around 3600 rpm even though you are only overboosting slightly. In other BM3 logs there is no throttle closure with even up to 2 psi overboost. In the other log you have 4 throttle closures including 3 back to back and boost is oscillating. I thought i have seen that before in other people's logs and it went away after some adaptation time.

How many miles did you put on tune after flashing, before logging these? You might want to try resetting adaptations and/or giving more time.

As mentioned above timing isnt great, and you have knocks. It seems consistent in both logs where around 4700 rpm you get a knock (or two) and have significant timing corrections. Although it does recover a little, it's still enough for me to recommend using the 91 map if you can't find better quality fuel.

The HPFP dip is also a little unusual for a pump gas map at only ~16.5 psi if you arent adding any extra ethanol (which it doesnt seem like based on knocks/timing).

Also, you didnt provide your full mod list, which is usually helpful in providing context and interpreting the logs.

Oh and 5 gallons of E85 will be way too much. As mentioned above get a test kit (fuel it kit with 2 containers ideally), test both your pump and E85, read the E30 fueling thread if you havent already for some good discussion and tips on how to mix. All the recent logs from people using BM3 stage 2 E30 are showing that you really can't go above E25 or so without HPFP crash, and if you are already getting dips in pressure, i doubt you will be able to go above 3-3.5 gallons to the rest pump gas.

Bottom line is that your knock/timing is the main concern, and it seem most likely to be from fuel quality. I know many people in the NY/tri state area run the 91 map with pump 93 due to poor quality.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

+1 for all of this basically.

Your boost target/control also looks a bit strange compared with other v7.1 logs. The boost target takes a while to reach its normal, flat value (nothing you can do about that, just looks different). However the boost control is also a little weird. In the first log you have a small throttle closure around 2500 rpm and then a bigger one around 3600 rpm even though you are only overboosting slightly. In other BM3 logs there is no throttle closure with even up to 2 psi overboost. In the other log you have 4 throttle closures including 3 back to back and boost is oscillating. I thought i have seen that before in other people's logs and it went away after some adaptation time.

How many miles did you put on tune after flashing, before logging these? You might want to try resetting adaptations and/or giving more time.

As mentioned above timing isnt great, and you have knocks. It seems consistent in both logs where around 4700 rpm you get a knock (or two) and have significant timing corrections. Although it does recover a little, it's still enough for me to recommend using the 91 map if you can't find better quality fuel.

The HPFP dip is also a little unusual for a pump gas map at only ~16.5 psi if you arent adding any extra ethanol (which it doesnt seem like based on knocks/timing).

Also, you didnt provide your full mod list, which is usually helpful in providing context and interpreting the logs.

Oh and 5 gallons of E85 will be way too much. As mentioned above get a test kit (fuel it kit with 2 containers ideally), test both your pump and E85, read the E30 fueling thread if you havent already for some good discussion and tips on how to mix. All the recent logs from people using BM3 stage 2 E30 are showing that you really can't go above E25 or so without HPFP crash, and if you are already getting dips in pressure, i doubt you will be able to go above 3-3.5 gallons to the rest pump gas.

Bottom line is that your knock/timing is the main concern, and it seem most likely to be from fuel quality. I know many people in the NY/tri state area run the 91 map with pump 93 due to poor quality.

Thanks for the review and input. I'm hoping that this was just a freak bad tank of gas and not something to do with my two month old plugs or BM3 v7.1 which I recently upgraded to from v6.4

To answer your questions:

I did not reset Adaptations after flashes, but I will do so in the future if that is recommended. For the Stage2 93 v7.1 flash, I did drive it around for several days before collecting those 93/v7.1 logs.

What constitutes knock in the logs? Is there a parameter? Sorry if it's a stupid question, it's a pain to type this on my phone but not really be able to look at logs without booting up the bigger laptop screen

Partial Mod List: 2015 335ix automatic with N55 EWG, 40k miles, Fabspeed HJS catted DP, Wagner Competition EVO1 FMIC, ER CP, aFe drop-in airfilter into M Performance Intake, Turbosmart Plumb Back BOV, Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe.

Two months ago my NGKs with 20k miles were replaced with the same NGK 97506 also gapped down to 0.022". (Bought NGKs from FCP Euro so I assume not counterfeit)
Eldor coils were installed at same time. Car had been running BMS Stage2 93 v6.4 since last year. Plugs/coils made obvious improvement in power and gas mileage increased 2-3 mpg, which told me plugs were definitely shot.

All of these logs were taken on the same tank of 93 octane from the station where I always get my gas.

Over the past few days on same tank of 93 octane I also took logs with: v7.1 91 octane tune, and my previous V6.4 93 octane tune. Log links below.

The tune used was BootMod3 N55 EWG Stage2 91 v7.1 (with 93 Octane in tank)

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fce...0b43638aeb4d8e

This is a log from 12/08/2020 Tuesday
BootMod3 Stage2 91 Octane v7.1 but with 93 octane in the tank.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fcf...90c65d5e546b54

Below is BootMod3 St2 93 v64 120820

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fcf...90c65d5e546b88

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by johnung

Thanks for the review and input. I'm hoping that this was just a freak bad tank of gas and not something to do with my two month old plugs or BM3 v7.1 which I recently upgraded to from v6.4

To answer your questions:

I did not reset Adaptations after flashes, but I will do so in the future if that is recommended. For the Stage2 93 v7.1 flash, I did drive it around for several days before collecting those 93/v7.1 logs.

What constitutes knock in the logs? Is there a parameter? Sorry if it's a stupid question, it's a pain to type this on my phone but not really be able to look at logs without booting up the bigger laptop screen

Partial Mod List: 2015 335ix automatic with N55 EWG, 40k miles, Fabspeed HJS catted DP, Wagner Competition EVO1 FMIC, ER CP, aFe drop-in airfilter into M Performance Intake, Turbosmart Plumb Back BOV, Pure Turbos Inlet Pipe.

Two months ago my NGKs with 20k miles were replaced with the same NGK 97506 also gapped down to 0.022". (Bought NGKs from FCP Euro so I assume not counterfeit)
Eldor coils were installed at same time. Car had been running BMS Stage2 93 v6.4 since last year. Plugs/coils made obvious improvement in power and gas mileage increased 2-3 mpg, which told me plugs were definitely shot.

All of these logs were taken on the same tank of 93 octane from the station where I always get my gas.

Over the past few days on same tank of 93 octane I also took logs with: v7.1 91 octane tune, and my previous V6.4 93 octane tune. Log links below.

The tune used was BootMod3 N55 EWG Stage2 91 v7.1 (with 93 Octane in tank)

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fce...0b43638aeb4d8e

This is a log from 12/08/2020 Tuesday
BootMod3 Stage2 91 Octane v7.1 but with 93 octane in the tank.

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fcf...90c65d5e546b54

Below is BootMod3 St2 93 v64 120820

https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fcf...90c65d5e546b88

My understanding is that BM3 automatically resets relevant adaptations when you flash a tune change. Not sure to what extent this happens when swapping octanes on the same map or versions of the same map. In any case, driving more than 50 miles from the flash is plenty of adaptation time, regardless of reset.

Knock Detected is a parameter in the log. Note is 0 or 1, so easy to miss if the scale on the Y axis is large.

Starting with this log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fcf...90c65d5e546b88

Boost control is fine. Timing isnt great, but not horrible either. Small dip in HPFP pressure. Boost control is fine. WGDC is fine. You have a knock right at the beginning of the pull, which results in a whole bunch of timing corrections, but it recovers a bit.

Then this one: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fcf...90c65d5e546b54

Weird boost control and 3 throttle closures in a row. Seen that a few times before in BM3 logs, dont know why it happens. Usually goes away. Timing is more consistent across cylinders. No knock. Timing on cyl 3 falls far behind the others.

Then this one: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fce...0b43638aeb4d8e

Same weird boost control and throttle closures. Maybe the 91 map? THREE knocks!!! Lots of timing corrections, including going negative. If this was the same tank of gas as the other 91 octane map logged the next day (log above), dont know what to say. IATs and conditions seem very comparable between the two logs... I assume nothing else was changed? Except putting more miles on the 91 octane map between this one and the log above? The subsequent log on the 91 map certainly looks a lot better.

[johnung]

Originally Posted by thejeremyman9

My understanding is that BM3 automatically resets relevant adaptations when you flash a tune change. Not sure to what extent this happens when swapping octanes on the same map or versions of the same map. In any case, driving more than 50 miles from the flash is plenty of adaptation time, regardless of reset.

Knock Detected is a parameter in the log. Note is 0 or 1, so easy to miss if the scale on the Y axis is large.

Starting with this log: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fcf...90c65d5e546b88

Boost control is fine. Timing isnt great, but not horrible either. Small dip in HPFP pressure. Boost control is fine. WGDC is fine. You have a knock right at the beginning of the pull, which results in a whole bunch of timing corrections, but it recovers a bit.

Then this one: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fcf...90c65d5e546b54

Weird boost control and 3 throttle closures in a row. Seen that a few times before in BM3 logs, dont know why it happens. Usually goes away. Timing is more consistent across cylinders. No knock. Timing on cyl 3 falls far behind the others.

Then this one: https://www.bootmod3.net/log?id=5fce...0b43638aeb4d8e

Same weird boost control and throttle closures. Maybe the 91 map? THREE knocks!!! Lots of timing corrections, including going negative. If this was the same tank of gas as the other 91 octane map logged the next day (log above), dont know what to say. IATs and conditions seem very comparable between the two logs... I assume nothing else was changed? Except putting more miles on the 91 octane map between this one and the log above? The subsequent log on the 91 map certainly looks a lot better.

Thanks for reviewing. I really appreciate it. They were baffling me and now I know that I wasn't crazy. All these logs were on the same tank of 93.

I'm down to 1/4 tank left. Next I guess that I'll flash the 91/v7.1 tune and fill up with 93 from the station that also sells E85. Hopefully this 93 is better quality. Then I'll take some more logs next week. Thanks again!

[thejeremyman9]

Originally Posted by johnung

Thanks for reviewing. I really appreciate it. They were baffling me and now I know that I wasn't crazy. All these logs were on the same tank of 93.

I'm down to 1/4 tank left. Next I guess that I'll flash the 91/v7.1 tune and fill up with 93 from the station that also sells E85. Hopefully this 93 is better quality. Then I'll take some more logs next week. Thanks again!

If all else fails, look into mixing some E85