[dmirish]

Hi Guys,

long time lurker, first time poster.

I'm searching for a 3 series 2008 coupe to buy in the UK and import into Ireland. It needs to be 6 months old and have about 6000k on it for import rules. My questions are really about current market in the UK, have done a lot of searches on here and see people being offered 18k for 320d msports etc. However haven't seen such low pricing on the car sites. What do you think realistic prices on cars below are via UK BMW main dealers.

08 320d manual msport with leather £23,480,
08 320d msport auto with leather £25000
08 325i msport auto with leather £25000

I basically want a 320d or 325i msport in silver or grey with black or grey leather.

Should there be much room to move on these prices? I'm budgeting 10-15% discount on advertised prices, is that too much? Or too little in current market?

Anywhere else to get a 2008 model, there are very few 08s outside of the dealer network at the moment so it looks like I will have to deal with them?

I'd prefer an auto, but the import taxes in Ireland are all based on the CO2 emissions, so for example the import tax on the manuals above is only about £5500 while on the autos it is more like £8000. So unless I can get a really good deal with no overhead for an auto will probably stick with manual.

[dmirish]

Any ideas guys? Not familiar with the market in the UK and a couple of calls to dealers ths morning haven't helped either.

One dealer has an auto 320d for 2k more than others and says that it is their best price! Is it possible to deal over the phone with dealers in the UK or will it not lead to meaningful negotiation?

My plan was to negotiate a deal, pay a CC deposit and then fly over the next day or so with a sterling draft. A lot of people from Ireland do similar so I thought they would be used to the idea.

I'm in the UK this week for a couple of days, should I try to get to a dealer to talk face to face?

[robbie99]

Can't answer your question about the current UK market but I wouldn't rule out newer cars. You'll have far more cars to choose from and they won't be much more expensive than a 6 month old one. You won't have to pay the UK VAT - see here... http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/consumers-vehicle.htm#2. When you do the sums the extra Irish VAT to pay will be less than €1k which could be worth it for a lower mileage car. The greater choice of cars will give you more scope in negotiating with a dealer. A 6k miles car from a dealer is more likely to have been used as a loaner (and driven like it's been stolen) rather than a supervised demo car. Also, your conscience will be better served by directing the VAT into the Irish exchequer!

[dmirish]

Originally Posted by robbie99

Can't answer your question about the current UK market but I wouldn't rule out newer cars. You'll have far more cars to choose from and they won't be much more expensive than a 6 month old one. You won't have to pay the UK VAT - see here... http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/vat/consumers-vehicle.htm#2. When you do the sums the extra Irish VAT to pay will be less than €1k which could be worth it for a lower mileage car. The greater choice of cars will give you more scope in negotiating with a dealer. A 6k miles car from a dealer is more likely to have been used as a loaner (and driven like it's been stolen) rather than a supervised demo car. Also, your conscience will be better served by directing the VAT into the Irish exchequer!

thats one way of looking at it Robbie, however the more recent cars are generally dearer so along with the extra VAT, it makes quite a difference. Of course I haven't ruled out a newer one and paying the extra VAT if the price is good enough.

[dmirish]

hmm, not too much help around.

Robbie, do you know how the dates work on the 6 month rule?

Is it 6 months from first date of registration in the UK to when you become owner?

Or is it 6 months from the first date or registration to the date you VRT it?

[robbie99]

6 months from date of first registration to the date of purchase invoice.

[dmirish]

Originally Posted by robbie99

6 months from date of first registration to the date of purchase invoice.

cheers man, found a nice june one, which will be 6 months up on guess when?

25th December!

Is that an omen????

[robbie99]

Go on, treat yourself, buy it now! You'll have it for Christmas and 6 weeks of driving it with your neighbours thinking it's brand new! If you got it for a good price then it's only an extra €800 or so. Very simple form this is to fill in!

[dmirish]

Originally Posted by robbie99

Go on, treat yourself, buy it now! You'll have it for Christmas and 6 weeks of driving it with your neighbours thinking it's brand new! If you got it for a good price then it's only an extra €800 or so. Very simple form this is to fill in!

will depend on the price I can get really. If it is good enough I'll go ahead, if not I'll wait. Things are only getting cheaper as you wait anyway, the wait could save a lot more than the 1k!

[NFS]

The glasses guide figures for an 08 320d msport coupe with 10K miles are here:

http://www.virtual-showroom.co.uk/sc...C08&mileage=10

The prices you have are £2-3K below book, so a decent starting point.

I can't see anyone picking up a 6 month old 320d for £18k.

For that money you would be looking at an 18-24 month old car, even in the current market.

The 320d has held value better than most because it is the most popular and because its cheap to run.

[dmirish]

Originally Posted by NFS

The glasses guide figures for an 08 320d msport coupe with 10K miles are here:

http://www.virtual-showroom.co.uk/sc...C08&mileage=10

The prices you have are £2-3K below book, so a decent starting point.

I can't see anyone picking up a 6 month old 320d for £18k.

For that money you would be looking at an 18-24 month old car, even in the current market.

The 320d has held value better than most because it is the most popular and because its cheap to run.

Thanks for that, from further investigation I think you are bang on. It looks like 22 or 22.5k is the best I can do at the moment.

However there are a lot of places that seem to not be willing to go past 25k, so it does look like there has been a split in the market between dealers holding out for a good price and those that have realised that selling as soon as possible is the main thing. I'm also struggling a bit trying to deal over the phone so have a feeling I amn't getting the price I would be if there in person.

There are an awful lot of similarly spec'd cars out there. One of the issues I've having is different prices coming up on AUC site, autotrader site and the garages own sites. Looks like that some of the lower prices are only on the garages own sites for some reason, or are hidden from the searches on the others somehow.

As mentioned above I'm thinking of giving it a month or into early jan to see if there a bit more movement. My target is currently 21k.

It is funny how the UK market appears to be following what happened in Ireland. 9 months ago it was similar to the above, but the dealers all gradually started to knock more and more off their stock values. However they seem always to be behind the market and a lot of high end cars have been sitting on their forecourts for those 9 months.

Now most people can't get credit here and couldn't buy the cars even if they wanted to.

[NFS]

The dealers pricing often seems to be more related to the amount they paid for the car than it's market value. That's probably why you see some of them holding out for £25k.

I guess the government bank guarantee might be why credit is scarce in Ireland. Still pretty available here, but people are not buying because they are worried about their jobs.

I reckon the used prices will bottom in the spring and we will see a lot of dealers going bust.

[dmirish]

Originally Posted by NFS

The dealers pricing often seems to be more related to the amount they paid for the car than it's market value. That's probably why you see some of them holding out for £25k.

I guess the government bank guarantee might be why credit is scarce in Ireland. Still pretty available here, but people are not buying because they are worried about their jobs.

I reckon the used prices will bottom in the spring and we will see a lot of dealers going bust.

Could be, the banks here are being hit hard on stock price so are trying to build liquidity by not lending.

We had same issues with dealers here, holding out for at least what they paid for too long and missing the chance of gettng anywhere near what they did pay. The cars depreciate and buyers are rarer month on month.

It's understandable though, as soon as one drops their price they are all forced to follow quite quickly. As lot of them don't want to take the loss as they have the cars on the balance sheet as assets at a lot higher than they are actually worth. Selling them at the loss can put them at risk, but all they are doing is postponing the worst of it.

Anyway, thats an aside, all I care about is getting the best value for my money and not paying over the odds in a falling market.

[fullmonty]

I know you said you wanted a 320d but if a 320i is an option then this M Sport Coupe at a main dealer in Preston looks to be a good buy at £22,995 for a 58 plate (September 2008) with only 261 miles. No extras other than black sapphire metallic paint and interior is standard blue cloth / anthracite alcantara.

http://www.bmw.co.uk/bmwuk/auc/car_d...WA72050PZ62909

[dmirish]

cheers for that, I need one 6 months old for VAT rules though and am actually keen to get one that old and with a fe more miles on it for better pricing and spec for around the same price..

[dmirish]

Hi Guys,
Still looking, struggling to make a move as am seeing wildly different pricing and some stunning prices on 07 models at non-BMW dealers. eg 335d mpsorts for 18k, 320d se for 15k, 06 335d se for 15k etc. Not seeing similar value in 08s.

Most BMW dealers are only offering me 5% off list prices which doesn't get them to where the market seems to be valuing them. Anyone have recent experiences?

eg this car, 320d msport auto at vines of gatwick £24,450.

What would people say is it's actual value in current market? Will the dealers begin to offer better value in the new year or will 08 models find there way to other outlets and be priced a lot better? Again any help for you guys who are more familiar with uk market would be appreciated.

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/...00850324974361

[edowen]

it is probably worth the price of a flight to come over face to face and do a deal. Dealers are often reluctant to deal over the phone.

[dmirish]

good point, puts you in a poor bargaining position when they know you have flown in just to try and make a deal on the car though. Wouldn't really want to have to walk away!

[NFS]

Originally Posted by dmirish

Hi Guys,
Still looking, struggling to make a move as am seeing wildly different pricing and some stunning prices on 07 models at non-BMW dealers. eg 335d mpsorts for 18k, 320d se for 15k, 06 335d se for 15k etc. Not seeing similar value in 08s.

Most BMW dealers are only offering me 5% off list prices which doesn't get them to where the market seems to be valuing them. Anyone have recent experiences?

eg this car, 320d msport auto at vines of gatwick £24,450.

What would people say is it's actual value in current market? Will the dealers begin to offer better value in the new year or will 08 models find there way to other outlets and be priced a lot better? Again any help for you guys who are more familiar with uk market would be appreciated.

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/...00850324974361

The majority of 08 models are still in the BMW dealer network. That's keeping prices artificially high.

There is some stock management going on here. Car supermarkets are selling on cars for main dealers and BMW UK in order keep their cashflow going.

I think that are making little or no profit on these sales, but they are at least covering their overhead.

Meanwhile, they are putting the easier to sell stuff on the forecourt and trying to manage prices as much as possible. 320d m-sport is about the optimum model for this, because it's so popular.

Average trade in value for that car would have been £21,500

They would have paid something like £ 20k for it, so there is a deal to be done around £22-23k.

[dmirish]

Originally Posted by NFS

The majority of 08 models are still in the BMW dealer network. That's keeping prices artificially high.

There is some stock management going on here. Car supermarkets are selling on cars for main dealers and BMW UK in order keep their cashflow going.

I think that are making little or no profit on these sales, but they are at least covering their overhead.

Meanwhile, they are putting the easier to sell stuff on the forecourt and trying to manage prices as much as possible. 320d m-sport is about the optimum model for this, because it's so popular.

Average trade in value for that car would have been £21,500

They would have paid something like £ 20k for it, so there is a deal to be done around £22-23k.

thanks for that, 320d msport seems like the one that the best value is on alright as there are so many of them around. I'm holding out for 21-22 as you say. They only seem to be getting cheaper and the euro hit a another record high against sterling today. Looks like it will be the new year at this stage before I can close a good deal.

[robbie99]

Originally Posted by dmirish

Hi Guys,
Still looking, struggling to make a move as am seeing wildly different pricing and some stunning prices on 07 models at non-BMW dealers. eg 335d mpsorts for 18k, 320d se for 15k, 06 335d se for 15k etc. Not seeing similar value in 08s.

Most BMW dealers are only offering me 5% off list prices which doesn't get them to where the market seems to be valuing them. Anyone have recent experiences?

eg this car, 320d msport auto at vines of gatwick £24,450.

What would people say is it's actual value in current market? Will the dealers begin to offer better value in the new year or will 08 models find there way to other outlets and be priced a lot better? Again any help for you guys who are more familiar with uk market would be appreciated.

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/ni/...00850324974361

I think you can easily have that car for a couple of hundred above 22k. 22k is 10% off advertised price. What I would do is ring up and be honest with the dealer about your situation. You ARE going to buy a 320d and it's only a matter of when and meeting your budget. You can only afford 22k and you'll wait long enough for an 08 car to drop to this price. The fact that you're phoning is of no disadvantage. All dealers do actually want to sell their stock! If you're honest about your situation the salesrep will pick up that you're no tyrekicker! Nothing wrong in explaining why it will work out cheaper for you tax wise, exchange rate, better wartanty etc. You genuinely want to buy. You actually have an advantage over UK buyers in that it's just as easy for you to buy your car in London as it is to buy in Glasgow. As soon as the right spec car comes in at the right price you have the cash to buy it straight away. Do make clear that you won't have a trade-in and are prepared to put down a credit card deposit over the phone. When musing to the salesrep about your plans for buying and bringing the car back to Ireland, make it known that it would be nice to do a deal by Christmas but this is not a deal breaker. If anything, waiting until after New Year for collection may work out better for you as Irish VRT should be less then. This is the key thing for getting a deal done. AFAIK, dealers have quarterly targets and I think salesreps might get their bonuses/commision at the end of each quarter. End of this month is the best time you'll get for getting a discount until end of March comes around. You don't have to buy by Christmas but if it meets your budget you will. Good luck!

[dmirish]

great post robbie thanks, they wouldn't move as much as I wanted so I just left them to it. unlikely it will sell and since sterling has been dropping like a stone I'm saving like €500 ever few days by doing nothing! I'd be nearly €1k better off buying this week than last week and I think it will move more. May try again on other cars later in week though.