[Dinosoar]

Okay, let's kick off this topic...and oldie but a goodie; oil weight.

Most say just listen to BMW, but that 0-20 seems sooooo thin for hard driving in the Summer. Thoughts on a heavier weight? 5-30? Thicker?

[Ruebarb]

0-20 is becoming the new norm. My 2019 chevy runs 0-20. The 2021 listed 0-20 & 0-30. Interesting the 2022 only lists 0-20.

Been 0-10 F here, so 0-20 for me isn't even a question.

Few years back BWM racing was running 5-30.

https://www.bmwblog.com/2016/03/15/b...us-technology/

[Hendo741]

Alot of the Supra community runs liqui Moly 5w-30 in the 2nd generation B58 and swear by it.

[Dinosoar]

Yeah, Toyota is pushing 0-16!!! I fear this light oil trend is the manufacturers merely trying to push MPGs and as long as the engine survives the warranty, what do they care? I don't trust the "engineering" decision out of the manufactures with all the pressure to raise MPG standards.

I may change my oil twice a year; 0-20 for winter, 5-30 for summer. It'd have to be a DIY operation though, I ain't paying BMW to do that twice a year!

[XC3LLR8]

As of now this is the setup I plan to use, along with doing my own oil changes. I'd never use an oil that is designed for bumping fuel economy (0w20) over engine protection, but that's just my personal preference. Forced induction generates a tremendous amount of heat, and combine that with a sport-oriented car (lots of high RPM driving) and that 20 weight oil quickly becomes a 16 weight or less. I'd also consider a quality 0w30 or 5w30 weight, but the OEM 20 weight is coming out post haste.

[Good 4 2 reasons]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

As of now this is the setup I plan to use, along with doing my own oil changes. I'd never use an oil that is designed for bumping fuel economy (0w20) over engine protection, but that's just my personal preference. Forced induction generates a tremendous amount of heat, and combine that with a sport-oriented car (lots of high RPM driving) and that 20 weight oil quickly becomes a 16 weight or less. I'd also consider a quality 0w30 or 5w30 weight, but the OEM 20 weight is coming out post haste.

For the money, Castrol Edge Euro spec is hard to beat.

[tahoebimmer]

Did you consider 0w40, and if so why not use that over the 5w40? The Audi 4.0 TFSI V8's use that so I carry some around with me for the inevitable low oil warnings.😆

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by tahoebimmer

Did you consider 0w40, and if so why not use that over the 5w40? The Audi 4.0 TFSI V8's use that so I carry some around with me for the inevitable low oil warnings.��

0w will properly flow down to -22F, while 5w will flow down to -13F. If it never gets below 0F, then either is fine.

The Castrol pictured was selected because it contains the LL-01 rating. However, I'll likely not give those Long Life ratings much thought as I'll be changing my own oil, and doing it much more frequently than BMW service intervals (likely 5,000 to 7,500 miles).

[Good 4 2 reasons]

just did my first oil change at 2500 miles. I went with the b58 oil change kit from bimmerworld, it was 7 quarts of redline 5w30, filter, and crush washer delivered for $78 or something like that.

Everything went smoothly but boy its a pain waiting for the oil to warm back up just to take a measurement to make sure the level is right. I guess one nice thing about 0w20 was how quickly it flowed out of the drain pan.

I am wondering if maybe it didn't drain as well as I hoped. It was on ramps, so the engine was high and the rear of the car was on the ground. When I filled the oil, I used only half of the last quart but when I checked the oil level, it was at the max line, same as the car showed before the oil change. I was led to believe the fill was 6.5 liters or 6.9 quarts. I am wondering if I should have let the pain drip more, but it was slow, individual drips, I can't imagine draining more.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Good 4 2 reasons

just did my first oil change at 2500 miles. I went with the b58 oil change kit from bimmerworld, it was 7 quarts of redline 5w30, filter, and crush washer delivered for $78 or something like that.

Everything went smoothly but boy its a pain waiting for the oil to warm back up just to take a measurement to make sure the level is right. I guess one nice thing about 0w20 was how quickly it flowed out of the drain pan.

I am wondering if maybe it didn't drain as well as I hoped. It was on ramps, so the engine was high and the rear of the car was on the ground. When I filled the oil, I used only half of the last quart but when I checked the oil level, it was at the max line, same as the car showed before the oil change. I was led to believe the fill was 6.5 liters or 6.9 quarts. I am wondering if I should have let the pain drip more, but it was slow, individual drips, I can't imagine draining more.

One of the reasons I have 4 floor jacks, as I always want the car level when changing oil (and makes it easier rotating tires).

What's the orientation of the drain plug? If it's in the back-center of the pan, you likely got it all. If it's on the side or front of the pan, you definitely left some behind.

Red Line is excellent! Did they offer a 0w40 option?

Also, do you have the Cooling / Performance Wheel package? I'm wondering how much volume the extra oil cooler holds?

[Good 4 2 reasons]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

One of the reasons I have 4 floor jacks, as I always want the car level when changing oil (and makes it easier rotating tires).

What's the orientation of the drain plug? If it's in the back-center of the pan, you likely got it all. If it's on the side or front of the pan, you definitely left some behind.

Red Line is excellent! Did they offer a 0w40 option?

Also, do you have the Cooling / Performance Wheel package? I'm wondering how much volume the extra oil cooler holds?

Yeah I'll definitely put it on jacks for the next change so I can rotate the tires.

Drain plug is definitely in the rear of the pan.

No ZTK package I'm afraid, I couldn't justify it since I am not planning on tracking the car.

I felt like the price for Red Line was a good decision. I ran ravenol in my Golf but trying to find a LL-01 ravenol oil from blauparts was giving me a headache. I was tempted to just get the castrol but for a little extra I figured I would splurge on the red line.

I see they offer a 12 quart pack of 5w40, $12.50 a quart with free shipping.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/Red-Line...12-Quarts.html

[ryo-]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

Also, do you have the Cooling / Performance Wheel package? I'm wondering how much volume the extra oil cooler holds?

afaik, if the vehicle is jacked up evenly, the extra oil in the cooler does not matter as the oil will still be inside the cooler/lines. it might be a different story if only the front was jacked up but I am not sure if it actually makes a difference.

and if I am wrong, then damn I have been messing up my oil changes in my BRZ. I only filled it up with extra oil for my oil cooler once and been filling the stock amount ever since (then again the lines curve up to the filter so I doubt anything is leaving the cooler).

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by ryo-

afaik, if the vehicle is jacked up evenly, the extra oil in the cooler does not matter as the oil will still be inside the cooler/lines. it might be a different story if only the front was jacked up but I am not sure if it actually makes a difference.

and if I am wrong, then damn I have been messing up my oil changes in my BRZ. I only filled it up with extra oil for my oil cooler once and been filling the stock amount ever since (then again the lines curve up to the filter so I doubt anything is leaving the cooler).

I see your point, but wouldn't you prefer to have that old oil drained and replaced with fresh oil?

[Ghost.G42]

Just saw this video, super informative from Brian and LiquiMoly, from what I heard in this video I'll be sticking with 0w-20 but maybe with an additive.

[Good 4 2 reasons]

Originally Posted by Ghost.G42

Just saw this video, super informative from Brian and LiquiMoly, from what I heard in this video I'll be sticking with 0w-20 but maybe with an additive.

what you missed was the auto manufacturers with the snipers trained on the liquidmoly guy if he said anything earlier than the 10k OCI was unnecessary.

I imagine being a non-OEM oil manufacturer trying to thread the needle isn't an easy task. I don't see how he holds the position that OEM oil and OCIs are always perfect but at the same time you should buy the entire liquidmoly line of products.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Ghost.G42

Just saw this video, super informative from Brian and LiquiMoly, from what I heard in this video I'll be sticking with 0w-20 but maybe with an additive.

The U.S. Government, and manufacturers of large pickups, thanks you for playing on the CAFE playground.

[MateoTorgy]

For my wife's 2022 X3 B46, I'm using Liqui Moly Top Tec 6600 with a bottle of Ceratek.
If/when my 230i arrives, I'll be using Ravenol EFS with a bottle of Ceratek.
Both oils are approved LL-17 FE+ oils (meaning 0W-20 with ACEA C5's low-mid SAPS as required by our engines and emissions systems). The difference between the two is one is a Group III synthetic (Liqui Moly) and the other is a Group IV PAO (Ravenol).
My plan is to send in used oil samples of each to Blackstone Labs, with the same miles, to see if there's a significant difference between Group III and Group IV oils.

Other contenders were Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 0W-20 (ridiculously high viscosity index), Mobil 1 Euro ESP X2 0W-20 (not an approved LL-17 FE+ oil but it is an ACEA C5 oil with data sheet numbers that satisfy all LL-17 FE+ requirements, so I'm assuming this has something to do with BMW's disdain for Mobil 1, or vice versa).

I didn't consider BMW's branded Castrol because there are no published numbers, which is an automatic disqualifier in my cynical mind. It's the factory fill but it's not running more than 500 miles in either of our vehicles. Neither BMW nor Castrol have confirmed whether the BMW branded oil is Castrol Edge Euro 0W-20 LL-17 FE+ but, even if it is, the data sheet doesn't impress me.

[Good 4 2 reasons]

Originally Posted by MateoTorgy

For my wife's 2022 X3 B46, I'm using Liqui Moly Top Tec 6600 with a bottle of Ceratek.
If/when my 230i arrives, I'll be using Ravenol EFS with a bottle of Ceratek.
Both oils are approved LL-17 FE+ oils (meaning 0W-20 with ACEA C5's low-mid SAPS as required by our engines and emissions systems). The difference between the two is one is a Group III synthetic (Liqui Moly) and the other is a Group IV PAO (Ravenol).
My plan is to send in used oil samples of each to Blackstone Labs, with the same miles, to see if there's a significant difference between Group III and Group IV oils.

Other contenders were Motul 8100 Eco-Clean 0W-20 (ridiculously high viscosity index), Mobil 1 Euro ESP X2 0W-20 (not an approved LL-17 FE+ oil but it is an ACEA C5 oil with data sheet numbers that satisfy all LL-17 FE+ requirements, so I'm assuming this has something to do with BMW's disdain for Mobil 1, or vice versa).

I didn't consider BMW's branded Castrol because there are no published numbers, which is an automatic disqualifier in my cynical mind. It's the factory fill but it's not running more than 500 miles in either of our vehicles. Neither BMW nor Castrol have confirmed whether the BMW branded oil is Castrol Edge Euro 0W-20 LL-17 FE+ but, even if it is, the data sheet doesn't impress me.

What kind of pricing are you seeing for the Mobil 1?

Looks like Blauparts sells the Ravenol b58 oil change kit for around $85 each if you buy 2 kits at a time. Not a bad price for better quality PAO based oils.

[XC3LLR8]

Just a bit of meaningless trivia, but Royalty Exotic Cars of Las Vegas, who did a YouTube video of changing the oil themselves in their Bugatti rather than pay the dealership $16,000 for the privilege, uses Red Line oil in all their high-end supercars. This is a car where a set of tires cost $40,000 and every 4th set of tires requires new wheels which cost $160,000. My guess is the factory fill was Mobil 1, but that's just my guess.

My rule-of-thumb is to check what the factory fill is in a new Porsche 911 Turbo and go with that. This BMW LL-BS is for those that do 10,000+ miles oil change intervals and prefer low-SAPS for improved MPG over high-SAPS for engine protection. To each their own, but I'm not seeing a catalytic doomsday in Europe where they tend to prefer the higher SAPS specifications.

Window sticker for attention...

[MateoTorgy]

Originally Posted by Good 4 2 reasons

What kind of pricing are you seeing for the Mobil 1?

Looks like Blauparts sells the Ravenol b58 oil change kit for around $85 each if you buy 2 kits at a time. Not a bad price for better quality PAO based oils.

Amazon has the M1. Mobil 1 ESP X2 Full Synthetic Motor Oil 0W-20, 1 Quart, Case of 6 https://www.amazon.com/dp/B089ZS9X8C...NEJ648P3CV5XC2

Otherwise, I bought the Liqui Moly Top Tec 6600 from FCP Euro and I bought the Ravenol from Blauparts.com. Before ordering anything from Blau, first register for an account and, while doing so, subscribe to their newsletter. That will automatically earn you 500 points ($5) to use toward your first order.

[MateoTorgy]

Originally Posted by Dinosoar

Okay, let's kick off this topic...and oldie but a goodie; oil weight.

Most say just listen to BMW, but that 0-20 seems sooooo thin for hard driving in the Summer. Thoughts on a heavier weight? 5-30? Thicker?

BMW hasn't developed new oil specifications like LL-17 FE+ to reduce emissions, without regard to the engine's design. BMW has developed engines like the B48/58 to improve performance AND efficiency and they were designed for 0W-20 oil, from the oil filter, to the oil cooler, the bearings, and crankshaft, the cylinder head, the valve train, the cam shaft, the turbo, and all channels and ports in between. All designed specifically for 0W-20 oil. There's no hidden agenda or conspiracy to it. Therefore, don't use an oil weight heavier than that which is specified by the BMW engineers in white lab coats who have countless letters and abbreviations after their names.

Modern engines with their more exact tolerances have achieved near frictionless opposing component surfaces. It's exactly why the endless YouTube videos featuring "one-arm bandit" tests are so pathetic and profoundly stupid. The focus now is on flow and pressure. You guys are worrying about 0W-20 not being thick enough to mitigate wear when in fact you'll be promoting wear by using thicker oils like 5W-40 in these particular engines, by depriving your engine of oil when and where it needs it.

Beyond the engine, emissions systems are also specifically designed to accommodate or work in conjunction with the specified oil. SAPS and other contents, if not in the right amount, can kill (or poison) your catalytic converter.

These aren't your grandpa's tractors. The heavy in the summer and light in the winter... That logic worked with your dad's 1976 Ford LTD. To dismiss and ignore 2022 automotive and petrochemical engineering technology in deference to your "gut" or your "hunch" is, umm, slightly unwise in my opinion.

[Dinosoar]

Originally Posted by MateoTorgy

BMW hasn't developed new oil specifications like LL-17 FE+ to reduce emissions, without regard to the engine's design. BMW has developed engines like the B48/58 to improve performance AND efficiency and they were designed for 0W-20 oil, from the oil filter, to the oil cooler, the bearings, and crankshaft, the cylinder head, the valve train, the cam shaft, the turbo, and all channels and ports in between. All designed specifically for 0W-20 oil. There's no hidden agenda or conspiracy to it. Therefore, don't use an oil weight heavier than that which is specified by the BMW engineers in white lab coats who have countless letters and abbreviations after their names.

Modern engines with their more exact tolerances have achieved near frictionless opposing component surfaces. It's exactly why the endless YouTube videos featuring "one-arm bandit" tests are so pathetic and profoundly stupid. The focus now is on flow and pressure. You guys are worrying about 0W-20 not being thick enough to mitigate wear when in fact you'll be promoting wear by using thicker oils like 5W-40 in these particular engines, by depriving your engine of oil when and where it needs it.

Beyond the engine, emissions systems are also specifically designed to accommodate or work in conjunction with the specified oil. SAPS and other contents, if not in the right amount, can kill (or poison) your catalytic converter.

These aren't your grandpa's tractors. The heavy in the summer and light in the winter... That logic worked with your dad's 1976 Ford LTD. To dismiss and ignore 2022 automotive and petrochemical engineering technology in deference to your "gut" or your "hunch" is just really stupid.

Compelling arguments, all (except the "...really stupid" part). Agreed the oil is so integral to the design of the engines. And, I would trust BMW, generally, on their oil recommendations. However, to just say modern engines ONLY take their recommended oil is a strict standard. Ford recommends heavier weights (up to 20-50) for track duty with the clear inference that the 0-20 is not heavy enough for the harder and hotter use. I think it's a fine debate nonetheless, and I am increasingly warming to the idea of just keeping the factory oil recommendation year round, no matter how hard I work the throttle. However, summer track duty is very different than most other usage and I think it is a hard sell for a lot of guys when we know manufacturers are juggling multiple motivations for design and engineering philosophy. Am I saying I don't wholly trust BMW? Yeah, a bit. The oil is less of a concern for me, but I suspect, a bigger deal for the tuners and track guys on this forum.