[Zk1]

http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/27/b...harged-m-cars/

Who didnt see that comming a mile off then, I personally think the 335i engine tech was a sleeper hit for BMW and welcome the Massive Tourquey output of a bi turbo m motor. I just wished they did a 4L TT instead of the 335i. BMW turbos are awesome.

[dxb335d]

Heard this news a while back in autocar. As long as they keep pumping out the ponies ill be happy. I prefer turbocharded engines anyway, even though it will loose the essence of the M/// unfortunately. But at least we will have some torquey M's now.

[gIzzE]

It will be a real shame when it happens, but it was inevitable really.

[Steve A]

they have to use turbo charging to keep emmissions down however i dont hink M will loose it very high revving nature.

They will once agin up the game.

next M5 will be a 5 litre V8 twin turbo that revs to 8500 rpm and give 25mpg

or then again i might have just had 1/2 a bottle of smirnoff

[beemerbird]

Doesn't surprise me at all tbh. Soon as I read what Audi were upto with forced induction and Mercs existing Kompressor system, then it was only a matter of time.

Surely there will be rather impressive amounts of power and torque available though. Suppose it depends on how you like 'your power being delivered'.

[gIzzE]

Haven't Merc gone the other way though??

They have gone to NA engines with the new AMG 63 cars.

[beemerbird]

Yes Merc have, so maybe they have some formula for controlling emissions Or are EU emissions relevant to higher volume production ie like the BMW M series, or will it apply to ALL engines regardless of volume of production of units?

[gIzzE]

No, Mercedes emissions are terrible!!

I guess they just think that most people won't care, they just want to build the best car they can??


The new S4 is sub 225g/km for the DSG car, so that helps with tax, but to be fair the old S4 is such a bag of shit handling wise that a FI V6 could only improve the car, and in an Audi FI actually suits it.

Problem with forced induction is they are quite boring to drive compared with working a NA engine. Which is why I think some find diesels so dull compared with petrols, it is not the fact one takes diesel and one takes petrol, it is more the fact that one revs high and needs to rev high to get it going and the other doesn't, it is all there from the get go and runs out quickly too.

Same with the 330i vs 335i, the 335i is faster, but the 330i is more fun.

Be interesting to see what the M division do with FI.

[creepy coupe]

The two main advantages with forced induction is emissions, and the fact you can build a base engine and then offer it in many power outputs with little or no mechanical changes, except maybe a bit of mapping. also the more gadget laden and heavier cars get, the more drivers what low down torque, which is as we know something you get from modern turbo engines.

[Porscha!]

Well if it means BMW are still able to make M cars due to ever increasing obsession with emissions then good on them

I've never owned a turbo / supercharged car so don't know enough about them to say whether I would enjoy driving one or not, from my own experiences they feel really powerful after nothing nothing bang, but a little false, sure some of the new ones don't feel like that at all though.

Low down torque is not a bad thing especially in a heavy car, for a really revvy engine with little torque you need a light car and not many modern cars are light!

[creepy coupe]

[QUOTE=Porscha!;3717231]I've never owned a turbo / supercharged car so don't know enough about them to say whether I would enjoy driving one or not, from my own experiences they feel really powerful after nothing nothing bang, but a little false, QUOTE]


Try a modern turbo powered car, they really are good Porscha.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by gIzzE

No, Mercedes emissions are terrible!!

I guess they just think that most people won't care, they just want to build the best car they can??


The new S4 is sub 225g/km for the DSG car, so that helps with tax, but to be fair the old S4 is such a bag of shit handling wise that a FI V6 could only improve the car, and in an Audi FI actually suits it.

Problem with forced induction is they are quite boring to drive compared with working a NA engine. Which is why I think some find diesels so dull compared with petrols, it is not the fact one takes diesel and one takes petrol, it is more the fact that one revs high and needs to rev high to get it going and the other doesn't, it is all there from the get go and runs out quickly too.

Same with the 330i vs 335i, the 335i is faster, but the 330i is more fun.

Be interesting to see what the M division do with FI.

I dont see how its more fun, its more tiring. More frustrating most of the time having to wring the neck out of a N/A high revving unit.

I like the shove of a turbo engine.

[gIzzE]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

I dont see how its more fun, its more tiring. More frustrating most of the time having to wring the neck out of a N/A high revving unit.

I like the shove of a turbo engine.

Fine, that is what you like, but for many the high revving NA engine is what makes an M car so special.

This is also the reason why some choose the Alpina B3 bi-turbo over the M3, some pople find forced induction better for them.
It is far more relaxed, a lot more civilised and a lot less work.

If I could only have one car I would choose a 335i or a 335d from BMW or an E55 from Mercedes, fast but easy and relaxed.

As I have two I have a Merc E320 for everyday wafting around and the M3 for when I want to hoon it about and 'drive'.

If I could only keep one of those cars it wouldn't be the BMW, because it is hard work, most of the time it is great, but sometimes when I am tired if I have to take the M3 or do think "I wish I still had the 335i".
So I do agree with you Carlos, and I think that more people will prefer say a 335 over an M3 more of the time, but those that want the M car will always want the M car, they don't wnat it easy.

[dxb335d]

I mean, id love an M3, and with a turbo or two slapped on it.

I love the tunability and love the shove.

[Zk1]

Originally Posted by Steve A

they have to use turbo charging to keep emmissions down however i dont hink M will loose it very high revving nature.

They will once agin up the game.

next M5 will be a 5 litre V8 twin turbo that revs to 8500 rpm and give 25mpg

or then again i might have just had 1/2 a bottle of smirnoff

Two words Steve "Damn right" you'd be downing litres of smirnoff to get that after thrashing it on m mode.

Saying that though it's the only car i lust after at the moment, i love the M5 and M6 and M3, and the E39 M5, and the E30 M3, and the E36 M3 coupe.
Actually I'd really like all of them , excluding the M1 cos its uglies.

[Zk1]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

I mean, id love an M3, and with a turbo or two slapped on it.

I love the tunability and love the shove.

Who doesnt love shove ?

[beemerbird]

Maybe some of this is simply a case of what we are all used to? The earlier attempts at turbos from my memory, seem to have suffered with the old turbo lag curse. This now seems to be more or less a thing of the past together with direct injection?

Say a manufacturer sticks a turbo on an engine, then potentially there is going to be further opportunities for tuners to tinker with boost pressure and ECU's!

I can totally see and relate to others points of view on N/A and turbo engines. Some days you really can't be arsed to rev, rev, rev.......... would always be nice to have 'the shove' though on tap.

[Zk1]

ditto beemer bird, ditto

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by beemerbird

Maybe some of this is simply a case of what we are all used to? The earlier attempts at turbos from my memory, seem to have suffered with the old turbo lag curse. This now seems to be more or less a thing of the past together with direct injection?

Say a manufacturer sticks a turbo on an engine, then potentially there is going to be further opportunities for tuners to tinker with boost pressure and ECU's!

I can totally see and relate to others points of view on N/A and turbo engines. Some days you really can't be arsed to rev, rev, rev.......... would always be nice to have 'the shove' though on tap.

direct injection wont decrease turbo lag. Variable vane turbos and the like eradicate it. Also the use of small turbos on stock vehicles.

Turbocharged engines have been around for donkeys years... Some worse than others for lag, does not make them slow. I LIKE lag.

[beemerbird]

Direct injection is for fuel efficiency amongst other things Carlos. I did know about the principles of modern turbos combined with electronics to minimise turbo lag, but thanks for pointing it out.

Knew you'd enjoy the 'lag' somehow. I must be getting old then. Is that why you like the 911 turbos so much - there's a slight pause then 'wham' kick up yer arse.

[dxb335d]

Driven a few cossies and loved the lag. wait wait wait WHOOOOOOSH.

Same with a 200sx which had 310HP.

[booforty]

Interesting article

I love my V8 and the noise it makes

Think I'm gonna hold onto my beast for a good few years