[NOOOOOO]

I have a 2006 330xi thats been sitting for a while since it wont start. Cranks just fine and occasionally jumps upwards of 200-300 rpm but it never came to life. I replaced the crankshaft sensor and have been keeping the battery charged. Any ideas?

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by NOOOOOO

... 2006 330xi thats been sitting for a while since it wont start. Cranks just fine and occasionally jumps upwards of 200-300 rpm but it never came to life. I replaced the crankshaft sensor and have been keeping the battery charged...

Welcome to the Forum!
YESSSSSS, we have "Ideas", and sometimes they are worth what's paid.

Questions:
1) Do you have a Scan Tool or Diagnostic Software to read Fault Codes in DME Fault Memory? If so, please state Make/Model of Tool, and all codes read.

2) Do you have a Multimeter to read Voltage at certain points that we can identify?

3) When (Month/Year) did engine LAST Start & Run? Was there any issue with engine performance on that occasion?

4) Is there any SOUND from the Fuel Pump when you open the door (if already unlocked), or when you press START Button to turn on ignition, WITHOUT pressing Brake/Clutch to engage Starter?

5) Do you have some "Patch Cables", wires with alligator clips or terminals, that you can use to "Hotwire" Fuel Pump?

6) What are Last-7 Characters of VIN, so we can lookup ISTA wiring diagrams?

With answers to those questions, we can suggest "Next Steps". If you have a Windows Laptop, I would suggest investing ~ $50 US or LESS in a K+DCAN Cable to connect laptop to USB II Socket, and several hours time downloading & installing INPA (Free BMW Factory-Level Diagnostic Software). If you let us know you are interested in doing that, we can provide links to Download sites.
George

[NOOOOOO]

Thank you for the welcome! The forum has already been quite a life saver for me on several occasions. To answer all the questions...
1. I do not have a specific scan tool but i do have a k+dcan cable and a laptop with all the inpa and ista software already on it.

2. No multimeter on hand but i can easily borrow or buy one

3. I dont exactly remember but closest estimate is november of last year. There was a bad misfire of cylinder 5 and 6 which was solved with a new outer DISA valve but it returned the same day i got the car back from the mechanic. And after a couple weeks it quit starting entirely.

4. I dont think its a fueling issue as ive had fuel spray everywhere when i attempted to start the car after the crank sensor replacement. (Stupid me forgot to plug the fuel line all the way into the rail)

5. No patch cables. Not sure where to get them.

6. The vin i will provide once i get back home as i am working currently.

[Mantraxalos]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Welcome to the Forum!
YESSSSSS, we have "Ideas", and sometimes they are worth what's paid.

I had to laugh at that one.

[NOOOOOO]

Last 7 of the vin
KV61089
Hopefully that helps

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by NOOOOOO

... 1. I do not have a specific scan tool but i do have a k+dcan cable and a laptop with all the inpa and ista software already on it...

AAAAND the reason you're NOT using INPA/ISTA is?????

If your computer and K+DCAN cable both work, and the car is NOT buried in a snowbank somewhere, I would suggest beginning with viewing, Saving, & POSTING the following 2 INPA Screens as shown & explained in the attached pdf: "INPA Tutorial Quickstart":
1) INPA > Functional Jobs > F2 Identification; that shows EACH of the Modules in the vehicle, at least those which are "communicating".

2) INPA > Functional Jobs > F4 Error Memory, ALL Modules; ~ 20 different Modules should report, hopefully only several with any faults.

I realize INPA is in German (at least the Technical "Labels" and Details), but the numbers are in English and we can help if you just post your screens. Diagnosis with INPA or ISTA is a "Process", but with either, you START with a readout of ALL Fault Codes and what Modules are "Communicating".

I can explain HOW to do the same thing using ISTA if there is some reason that INPA is NOT "Functional".

Please let me know what specific help is needed to just post those two (three since F4 Error Memory is 2 screens) INPA ScreenPrints here. The pdf is intended to explain How to (1) Setup your cable, (2) Navigate INPA, & (3) Save ScreenPrints to post here, but what makes sense to ME may NOT to you -- Feel FREE to "critique".

If you have an Aversion to all things German, use ISTA (but WHY a 330xi?), using Selection Sequence:
1) Operations Menu button, top-left;
2) Read Out Vehicle Data Tab in 3rd row;
3) Click Complete Identification button, bottom-right;
4) Control Unit Tree appears (after 'a bit' ;-); list ANY RED control units (NOT communicating);
5) Click Display Fault Memory button at bottom-right;
6) List of Fault Codes by Module appears; SAVE that screen;
7) Double-click any line showing a fault code to get DETAILS/Description on that Fault.

Save any screens showing Module or Fault Information, and post here so we can ALL learn something, and suggest "Next Steps".
George

[floorit]

Get the codes, that’s your best starting point. Could be anything from fuel pump, ekpm3 module, valvetronic motor dead or not getting power, eccentric shaft sensor, etc. Gotta pull the codes first to know what you’re looking for.

[NOOOOOO]

I followed the INPA instructions and got a few screenshots of the error page. Hopefully they narrow something down, it's a bit discouraging to look at.

[dpaul]

Originally Posted by NOOOOOO

I followed the INPA instructions and got a few screenshots of the error page. Hopefully they narrow something down, it's a bit discouraging to look at.

Don't be discouraged.

Most of these are not relevant to a no-start condition and most of the ones that are may be left over from error states that are no longer present or just spurious, the result of low voltage conditions during previous ignition on states or during storage.

First, make absolutely sure your battery is up to snuff. Use that multimeter that George asked you to obtain - resting voltage should be >12.0v, cranking voltage >10.0v. Measure with the positive on the jumper terminal in the engine compartment and negative on a chassis ground

Then, IMHO, your next move should be to clear the errors and then see which will come back after you try to start the vehicle.

Alternatively, get the freeze frame data from each relevant module and eliminate from consideration the ones that are not currently present. Example: INPA->E90->Engine->N52->F4 (Read/Clear Errors)->F3 (error memory with freeze frame data). If the error is current, the description will say "Fehler momentan vorhanden"; if it is not it will say "Fehler momentan NICHT vorhanden". The most important modules in this case are likely DME, FRM, maybe DSC.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by NOOOOOO

I followed the INPA instructions and got a few screenshots of the error page. Hopefully they narrow something down, it's a bit discouraging to look at.

Discouraging would be "Crank, NO Start" and NO CODES.
Next Step is:
Read Error Memory (Fehlerspeicher), WITH Freeze Frame Data.

Menu Path: INPA > Engine (Left Listbox) | N52 (MSV70) in Right Listbox > F4 Read Error Memory (Fehlerspeicher) > F3 Error Memory with Freeze Frame Data

A series of screens (Scroll/Page Down) will appear with approximately ONE full screen for each fault code. Save ScreenPrint of each Screen/page. The Devil is in the DETAILS. One thing we are looking for here is voltage readings in the FF Data, indicating electrical faults. I know it's a hassle, but if you save & post ALL of the FF Data related to each code, we'll probably get some clues of WHAT to test NEXT. You will Likely need a Multimeter when we proceed to "Next Round". Cheapest thing you can find is OK -- we're just going to do basic Voltage Readings.

Don't let the German scare you if you don't "Deutsch sprechen". Google Translate does a credible job of translating Technical German, at least if you KNOW what the Tech Terms mean in English. We can do a decent job of translating EITHER.

When you have MULTIPLE codes in the DME Module, the FIRST thing to look for is a Power Supply issue, such as DME Main Relay NOT being activated, or similar relay issue. That is particularly so if the car was starting and running normally several months ago, and then suddenly won't fire when cranked. Could also have water in the E-box (where DME is located), corroded/wet connectors, etc.

Nothing in the DME Codes suggests to me that the Module itself is FUBAR, but rather than guess, we'll await your FF Data for each DME (Engine Control module MSV70) Fault Code.
George

[NOOOOOO]

I've read both of your replies. I ran out of juice while trying to get codes but there's an error that comes up when I attempt to get the codes. Might need some configuration guidance. Anyways I have the battery box hooked up as I type so I'll be working with a full battery tomorrow. It currently reads 10 resting amps, which is strange because it was reading 12.4 a few days ago. I'll check again once it's fully charged. Thanks again for sticking with the thread to help out so far.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by NOOOOOO

... there's an error that comes up when I attempt to get the codes...

Check your COM 1 Port & Latency 1 msec settings, as described in the "Tutorial" pdf attached to Post#6 above. To Check that setting (or RESET it), you just need to have the USB cable end attached to USB port of your Laptop. Do NOT want to have large end attached to car. Those settings can get RESET by Windows Updates. If you STILL get that Error Message after RESETTING Latency, just click "YES" several times and see if you get communication.

You were able to connect to the vehicle and read Fault Codes in ALL Modules using INPA > Functional Jobs > F4, so if your COM 1 settings have NOT been changed (such as by Windows Updates), you SHOULD be able to communicate with the DME Module.

I assume you got the MSV70 Main Menu Screen, and then got the F4 Error Memory Selection Screen, but the Error Message appeared when you selected F3? That indicates your INPA Installation on your laptop is working correctly. You would get that far WITHOUT being connected to your vehicle. The Error Message ONLY appears when your computer "Queries" the DME. If there were NO connection at all, the Error Message would be slightly different (INITIALIZATION ERROR). So your Error Message (DATA TRANSMISSION DISTURBED) suggests a COM setting error.

I assume you are using BimmerGeeks Version of INPA? If clicking on the F3 selection in the Toolbar does NOT give anything but Error Message, try using F3 Function Key instead. If neither of those "fixes" work, try selecting DME > F4 > F1 (Short Fault) or F2 Detail. Those are two Task Bar Boxes preceding F3 FF Data.

Please let us know what you find,
George

[NOOOOOO]

I have done a clean install of all the software and yes, the
usb latency is set to 1. Everything on my computer is fine byt yes as you have stated i get the error popup when i press F3. Also yes I am using the bimmergeeks version how could yoj tell? Ill try again tonight with a full battery and send the screenshots.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by NOOOOOO

I have done a clean install of all the software and yes, the usb latency is set to 1. [Have you checked to see if it is STILL set to Latency = 1 msec, AFTER the Error Message? As stated, Windows Updates will OFTEN reset that to 16 or such. I just checked my laptop after submitting the previous post, and sure enough -- MS had changed it to "Com 3 & Latency 16" (Instead of COM 1, Latency 1). I've made it a habit to check that EVERY TIME before connecting.]
Everything on my computer is fine but yes as you have stated I get the error popup when i press F3...

If you get the same Error Message with Battery Voltage > 12.0, try selecting F5 Status in MSV70 Main Menu, and then see if you can connect with ANY of the F5 > F1 Digital screens. Don't be afraid to experiment with viewing F4 & F5 INPA Screens. You are ONLY viewing Data, NOT changing anything (unless you CLEAR/ Löschen Error Memory. If you CANNOT read Live Data in DME using F5 Status, then save any Error Message and post it here. SOMEONE may be able to help.
George

[NOOOOOO]

Resting battery voltage is now at 13.4. I got INPA to communicate successfully to the car thankfully. Here are the detailed errors I pulled. Maybe these will tell all.

[dpaul]

Remember the exhortation about "vorhanden" and "nicht vorhanden"?

My quick read is that these are the relevant codes:

2CF9 DME: throttle valve potentiometer 1
2CFA DME: throttle valve potentiometer 2
2D08 DME: throttle
2AA8 DME: DISA control circuit

They are for the most part about the throttle and most likely a connector problem although there are other possibilities.

Remove the connector (X6390) at the throttle and look for corrosion, spray it with good quality contact cleaner then re-seat it. Could be you want to do the same at the DME.

Not sure of the DISA fault is related or not. There is also a valid error for the radiator blind but that isn't going to cause a no-start condition

Let's see what George thinks!

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by NOOOOOO

Resting battery voltage is now at 13.4. I got INPA to communicate successfully to the car thankfully. Here are the detailed errors I pulled. Maybe these will tell all.

If you're in a rush to get to my recommended "Next Step", and don't care about the details, just skip to "Thoughts" several pages down.

If your battery voltage is 13.4V after Charger has been disconnected for ~ 15 minutes, please tell us what make/model battery you are using.
"Surface Charge" is a momentary residual of the battery being charged with voltage > 12.8V, and that Surface Charge should subside in 30 minutes or less after disconnecting charger, to something in 12.6 to 12.8V range for "Fully-charged" 12 Volt Battery.

Please tell us if you needed to change anything about your computer settings or technique to get INPA to read FF Data, or was it just low battery preventing proper DME function?

"I think" I'm confused about the CORRECT English Translation of the German Technical term: Drosselklappenpotenziometer
Drossel = Throttle
Klappen = Flaps/Valves (Plural)
Yet: Drosselklappenpotenziometer = Throttle Potentiometer (per Google Trans)
WHERE did the "Flaps/Valves" go???
Bentley Manual suggests those two codes mean Accelerator Pedal Module Sensor Faults:
P0123 | 2CF9 | Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch 'A' Circuit High
P0222 | 2CFA | Throttle/Pedal Position Sensor/Switch 'B' Circuit Low

I agree with "dpaul"s analysis ENTIRELY, EXCEPT I'm changing my mind on which "Potentiometer"s are the source of fault. Previously, I had always believed that "Drosselklappe" referred to the DME-controlled "butterfly valve" in the Throttle Body, as shown in the "Air Supply" wiring diagram dpaul attached to prior post. The ONLY way your codes make any sense to me however is IF those 2 faults relate to Signals (A & B) the Accelerator Pedal Module sends to the DME. See Bentley Manual for discussion of Accelerator Pedal Module & Throttle Housing (EDK), beginning at 130-16, page 269 of the pdf version.

That is the "Drive-by-wire" system used with NO mechanical Accelerator Pedal Linkage to a Throttle Butterfly Valve in the Throttle Body. When you add the fact that the PRIMARY thing controlled by the DME, depending on those 2 signals received from the Accelerator Pedal Module, is the Intake Valve Lift per the VVT & Eccentric Shaft, a LOT of folks have weird concepts of HOW the "Throttle" system actually works. My concepts are STILL evolving.

Thoughts:
Since you have INPA, and hopefully it is NOW connecting with DME, and capable or reading "Live Data", here are my suggested "Next Steps" to help us learn WHAT is functioning correctly when:
1) Accelerator Pedal is in "On Idle" position (NOT pressed), and also when
2) Accelerator Pedal is pressed ~ halfway to floor.
Those tests are done with Ignition ON, but Engine OFF, to determine what signals the DME is receiving (Live Data) from the Accelerator Pedal Module. View the suggested screens, save ScreenPrints, and Attach here. There will be additional "Next Steps". Remember: "It's a Process".

1) INPA > DME > F5 Status > F1 Digital > F3 Status of Functions; the "Status Idle" circle at top-left should be filled/black. If you press pedal to floor (ENGINE OFF for those whose engines WILL Start ;-) Idle circle should NOT be filled, and others (kickdown, max load) may/should fill.

2) INPA > DME > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F4 Measured Values Group 4; that screen shows Voltage of signals received by DME from the TWO Accelerator Pedal Module Potentiometers. The three bar graphs we are interested in are the first three at top of Left Column:
A) Versorgung Fahrwertgeber 1 (Also to its right: Versorgung Fahrwertgeber 2); = Voltage Supply Pedal Sensor 1/2;
B) Spannung Pedalwertgeber 1 = Voltage signal from Pedal Sensor 1
C) Spannung Pedalwertgeber 2 = Voltage signal from Pedal Sensor 2

As explained in Bentley, those two voltages are supposed to be different, but Sensor 1 Voltage should be ~ TWICE the value of Sensor 2. On my N52KP, at idle, Sensor 2 Voltage is .34V and Sensor 1 Voltage is .68V. When Pedal is pressed (Ignition ON, Engine OFF ;-) BOTH voltages increase, but 2 to 1 ratio (approximately) SHOULD be maintained.

3) INPA > DME > F5 Status > F2 Analog > F3 Measured Values 3 AND F6 Measured Values 6 BOTH contain "Fahrpedalwert" bar graphs. EACH of those should read "0%" when Accelerator Pedal is NOT pressed (On Idle) and should increase in % value as pedal is pressed. No need to attach copies of those unless you have questions about them. Just so you check to see if there is ANY change with Pedal position.

Please let us know what you find,
George

[NOOOOOO]

I will try out dpaul's suggestion and go through the plug tomorrow or later this week when it isn't miserably cold. The pedal position seems to read correctly according to INPA. The voltage and percentage values reflect the same way it was stated they should. However, when I go to the digital status, the "status idle" circle is never black no matter what position the pedal is in. I have attached 2 images. First one is with no pedal input at all.
P.s. no setting change was needed. I had the cable switch in the wrong position and the battery was way too low for the DME to spit out any info. Also my battery voltage according to INPA is 11.5 volts. Hopefully it's only due to temperature.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by NOOOOOO

I will try out dpaul's suggestion and go through the plug tomorrow or later this week when it isn't miserably cold. The pedal position seems to read correctly according to INPA. The voltage and percentage values reflect the same way it was stated they should. However, when I go to the digital status, the "status idle" circle is never black no matter what position the pedal is in. I have attached 2 images. First one is with no pedal input at all...

Your FIRST Screen, where Accelerator Pedal is in "On Idle" position, but the top-left circle for "Status Idle Speed" is NOT filled, is KEY.

That is NOT an indicator of "Speed" of anything. There is NO Engine speed -- 0 RPM). That is an indication of whether the Accelerator Pedal Module signals, as received by the DME, show the pedal in "On Idle" position or NOT. Your screen shows that the voltage from one or both of the 2 Pedal Sensors, as received by the DME, is NOT consistent with correct voltage signal for "On Idle" position.

Your "Drosselklappenpotenziometer" Fault Codes (2CF9 & 2CFA are PRIMARY codes here) suggest BOTH signals received by DME from Pedal Module are out of range (1 High, 2 Low). See the BMW Fault Code Lookup "Fault Information" sheets for those two codes, linked below.

The challenging thing about using INPA is to get the CORRECT translation & CONCEPT of what a particular bar graph Value is actually showing. I have BOTH an "All German" Version, and also the BimmerGeeks version, with SOME of the "Labels" and most of the "Menus" translated to English. While the translation in the BimmerGeeks Version is generally correct, there ARE some misleading terms used from time-to-time. THIS MAY BE one of those times.

The German "Label" for that top-left circle is "Status Leerlauf", which is translated by Google Translate: "Idle Status" WHY is that important? If the DME CANNOT get a reliable indication of Accelerator Pedal position, it SHOULD NOT start or continue to run the engine, as operator control of engine speed CANNOT be assured. I'm NOT personally-familiar with the BMW programming "Algorithm" of the DME, but I can certainly see WHY they MIGHT have provided for "NO Start" when NO proper Pedal Sensor signals received.

Here are links to Fault Information sheets for 2CF9, 2CFA, & 2D09:
https://bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagView?d...EANgA3ADAANAA=
https://bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagView?d...EANgA5ADAANAA=
https://bmwfault.codes/XMLDiagView?d...kANgA0ADAANAA=

I can understand the confusion about whether the "Drosselklappen" reference refers to the Throttle Body "Valve" or "Flap". I was/am also confused by that reference. However, I can see NO reason that a fault related to the "Throttle Valve" at the Intake SHOULD cause the engine to NOT fire when cranked. As explained above, I CAN see a VALID REASON for the DME NOT to fire an engine when there is NO Reliable Pedal Sensor Signal.

I will provide additional INPA ScreenPrints related to diagnosis of Accelerator Pedal Sensor issue (and how to view the alternative "Throttle Valve position" as well) in later Post.

Until then, please let us know if you have had any water/ice in driver footwell in area of Accelerator Pedal Module. I will also provide ISTA ScreenPrints of the Accelerator Pedal wiring, Connector Views at Pedal & DME, and Procedure for Pedal Module R&R.

Most importantly on your end at the moment:
What Mileage is shown on your odometer?
All your 5 Fault Codes which are "Currently Present" (Fehler Momentan Vorhanden) show a "most recent" mileage of 250416 km. That is the mileage, to nearest 8 km or 5 miles, at which the fault code was saved. 250,416 km = 155601 miles. I know this seems trivial, but your reporting of Odometer reading would help/confirm our understanding of your data.

If the "Crank, NO Start" issue is caused by the Pedal Sensor Signal Faults (which appears clear to me, unless there are other DME Faults NOT posted ;-), then the "Next Step" should be to use INPA to display actual Voltage signals received by DME at various Pedal positions (DME > F5 > F2 > F4), and to test the wiring.
George

[NOOOOOO]

The mileage is still 155601 miles. No water or ice that I know of in the pedal area, I always kick my boots off before getting in and i have bmw original all weather mats so the fitment is good. The strangest thing to me is that the pedal signal does match what you described in your car. The 2 to 1 ratio is maintained throughout the entire travel. I'll try to get a voltmeter within the next few days so I can test wires if I need to.

[NOOOOOO]

Sorry for the lack of a response as of late. I have been slammed with work for the holiday and I had barely any time to do anything. I'll be posting up the data needed once I have some time. Thanks

[NOOOOOO]

I went ahead and got screenshots of the INPA pedal position voltages with the bar graph. First photo is no pedal input, then halfway, then all the way down. Hopefully it helps. I'll go get a voltmeter if I will need one soon. Another odd thing I didn't mention is that sometimes during my attempts to start the car, it would lose all electrical power and wouldn't even spit out the key unless I disconnected and then reconnected the positive terminal on the battery. Hope to hear back soon. Thanks.