[LuvMyE92]

Clipped from an online story:

“We’ll never go back to the level of inventories that we held pre-pandemic because we’ve learned we can be much more efficient,” GM CEO Mary Barra told reporters last year.

BMW Chief Financial Officer Nicolas Peter told the Financial Times last fall that the automaker plans to “clearly stick with … the way we manage supply to keep our pricing power at the current level.”

Mercedes-Benz parent Daimler AG has the same idea. “We will consciously undersupply demand level,” Daimler’s CFO Harald Wilhelm told FT.

Ford CEO Jim Farley has suggested that the company may move closer to a build-to-order business model, though he recently promised dealerships Ford would not sell cars directly to customers, like Tesla does.

This is not good news for those of us who are used to the old days, when you could buy nearly anything - often including an M car - for a substantial discount. And BMW raised prices last year (at least they did on my car!) which isn't helping.

[Burrcold]

If that's the case, whatever brand decides to go back to actually having inventory, will gain a TON of market share. Maybe enough so that it will force other manufacturers to move back to holding inventory.

I don't mind if dealers want to hold lean volumes, but at the very least they need to a have a tester of almost every model on hand and GREATLY reduce the lead-time from sale to delivery. This BS of waiting a year+ for a car isn't going to be sustainable. Guaranteed delivery within 3 months or sooner, and this "new model" could work.

[Germanauto]

I went to Porsche the other day in a bright blue Porsche. Wanted to inquire about Boxster/S allocations. Salesguy was chilling, wearing sunglasses thinking he's Tom Cruise, arrogantly states 12 months, best you're gonna do is MSRP, then went back to browsing the net. No interest beyond that in getting to know my desires as a potential customer, offering to test drive the used one on the lot, etc.

Unfortunate that this is the new normal. These dealers have become even worse, and we the consumers are getting ripped off.

[BMWILUVU]

Is price gouging still going on strong? Glad they're talking about eliminating dealerships.

[Anderson11]

With $3700.00 MY price increases I would say Nicolas gets an A+ in his pricing class........

"BMW Chief Financial Officer Nicolas Peter told the Financial Times last fall that the automaker plans to “clearly stick with … the way we manage supply to keep our pricing power at the current level.”

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I went to Porsche the other day in a bright blue Porsche. Wanted to inquire about Boxster/S allocations. Salesguy was chilling, wearing sunglasses thinking he's Tom Cruise, arrogantly states 12 months, best you're gonna do is MSRP, then went back to browsing the net. No interest beyond that in getting to know my desires as a potential customer, offering to test drive the used one on the lot, etc.

Unfortunate that this is the new normal. These dealers have become even worse, and we the consumers are getting ripped off.

I've had similar sales guys at Porsche. The cars basically sell themselves anyway, so I'm not sure why they put some of these morons on the payroll.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I went to Porsche the other day in a bright blue Porsche. Wanted to inquire about Boxster/S allocations. Salesguy was chilling, wearing sunglasses thinking he's Tom Cruise, arrogantly states 12 months, best you're gonna do is MSRP, then went back to browsing the net. No interest beyond that in getting to know my desires as a potential customer, offering to test drive the used one on the lot, etc.

Unfortunate that this is the new normal. These dealers have become even worse, and we the consumers are getting ripped off.

There was a time car salesman had to work to sell you a car now the customer have to work to buy a car.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

I've had similar sales guys at Porsche. The cars basically sell themselves anyway, so I'm not sure why they put some of these morons on the payroll.

This dealer is in a privileged area so they've always kinda been pricks. But I do recall their salespeople putting more effort and being more cordial in the past.

I agree there isn't much use for salespeople now. An unnecessary middleman that makes the process 100x more stressful. If I'm unable to negotiate a deal, then they've lost their entire reason for existing!

[zx10guy]

Can you blame the dealers and manufacturers? The consumer did it to themselves so there has to be accountability there which I'm not seeing at all. It's easy to blame the big bad corporation or dealer when people are stupidly fueling much of this. Want to put a stop to this. Don't buy a car you don't NEED.

[Equilibrandt]

Pure greed, I'd assume.

- Probably put up record profits if you look at the data on a per-car basis. ADM markup on nearly every car, new or used, //M or base model X3. And 99% of consumers are willing to pay ADM; don't misconstrue the sentiment here on an enthusiast forum as public opinion - the buyers here are the 1%.
- Significantly fewer cars on the lot gives the illusion of exclusivity and forces most buyers into a 'better buy now, before it's gone' mindset
- Significantly fewer cars on the lot mean less cars to maintain, service, wash, and detail, cutting down on daily labor
- Significantly fewer cars on the lot mean that customers take cars that ARE on the lot as-is, and often won't try to Goldilocks around looking for the perfect exterior color + interior color + packages. They'll just take what they can get, which benefits both the manufacturer and the dealers.

I don't see how it'll ever go back to normal when they're making insane profit on every sale they make, regardless of which model they sell. That's one reason why I'm such a large advocate for the supposed 'hybrid-online' sale model where I can order direct.

It's paramount to remember that most dealerships probably make the vast majority of their profit in the Parts/Service/Warranty/Maintenance Department, not New and Used Car Sales Department. If people are snapping up cars quickly and still bringing them back for oil changes and brake jobs (which are the cash cows for service centers), why would you stock a full lot and take the risk of a bunch of random models sitting around for months?

[allinon72]

Wait until demand is cut in half as the slack in the market is taken up, they'll go back to pumping out cars and pushing them onto dealers like they did a few years ago. Whether the dealers want them or not. That's the only way to make their metrics look good in a downturn. NOTHING is going to change until the dealership model is abandoned for good...which will be never. I could see companies going bankrupt several times over before that happens.

[Marmugmotleocay]

Salesman told me the M3 competitions are a year and a half out.

[NickyC]

Very bad news.

Not going to lose sleep over it however, our species is terrible at predicting the future so I'll just assume things will go back to a happy medium in a few years.

[10"]

what's really silly is that dealers have not changed, it's this addiction to consumerism and people acting like mindless sheep that has become worse.

Take Porsche for example, which has become the ultimate "bro" brand in the past few years. Every loser frat boy trying to buy a Porsche to score cool points has resulted in a sort of hysteria based around consumerism.

if everyone just relaxed and enjoy the car they have a bit instead of translating their unhappiness into consumer-based projection things would easily return back to a reasonable state.

[chassis]

Don’t believe news articles. The market is softening and correcting before our eyes. New car production is up, inventory is up and preowned prices are down. A dealer salesperson agreed with me yesterday that the market is slowing down.

If you are patient you will find what you want. If you something very specific or need it right now, you will pay the price or wait.

Local MB dealer is flush with inventory. Same with VW and Ford dealers near me.

[BMWCCA1]

When you look at price increases in everything on the planet over the past few years, is it any surprise that BMW has finally taken an increase in their 2023 model-year prices? Do you not think their cost in production, shipping, and supplies have increased just like your eggs, gas, and lumber?

[zx10guy]

Another thing about all this dealer hate is I highly doubt manufacturers will actually put any significant teeth behind going fully direct. There's just too much infrastructure and processes built around having the dealer as part of the product chain. What people are being myopic about is not seeing the other things a dealer does for a manufacturer.

I highly doubt any long established manufacturer is going to want to take on dealing with carrying inventory of their vehicles. Not only does this have significant ramifications with needing pure warehousing square footage, this also means the manufacturer has to now take on hiring and managing the delivery point where the customer picks up the car and final sales paperwork. All of that is overhead they don't deal with right now. Not to mention the cash flowing situation with holding on to unsold inventory that hasn't been diverted to a dealer as an intermediary.

Service. Another major overhead issue. Now the manufacturer has to hire qualified mechanics, get service bays, and all the other mess that comes with running a service facility. Look at what has happened with Tesla. There have been confirmed reports at the height of this pandemic of people having to wait a month and a half to get their car into service and this was at one of the largest markets being NYC. Do you think things are going to be better in rural areas? I can hear the dealer haters now. Well, I work on my own car and don't need a dealer. Wrong. What are you going to do when there is a recall? The Takata air bag fiasco is an example of this. Do you think any of the manufacturers would be able to handle the huge numbers of cars needing new airbags under the recall?

I understand the need for dealers. It's unfortunate I have to deal with the whole pricing negotiation. I hate negotiating and would rather just have the whole model shift to MRP (manufacturer retail price) instead of MSRP (manufacturer suggested retail price). Although I have done decent deals on vehicles I've purchased despite hating the negotiating aspect.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

There have been confirmed reports at the height of this pandemic of people having to wait a month and a half to get their car into service and this was at one of the largest markets being NYC.

And last I knew, BMW Manhattan was a company-owned dealership. Who else could afford a presence in Manhattan?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Another thing about all this dealer hate is I highly doubt manufacturers will actually put any significant teeth behind going fully direct. There's just too much infrastructure and processes built around having the dealer as part of the product chain. What people are being myopic about is not seeing the other things a dealer does for a manufacturer.

I highly doubt any long established manufacturer is going to want to take on dealing with carrying inventory of their vehicles. Not only does this have significant ramifications with needing pure warehousing square footage, this also means the manufacturer has to now take on hiring and managing the delivery point where the customer picks up the car and final sales paperwork. All of that is overhead they don't deal with right now. Not to mention the cash flowing situation with holding on to unsold inventory that hasn't been diverted to a dealer as an intermediary.

Service. Another major overhead issue. Now the manufacturer has to hire qualified mechanics, get service bays, and all the other mess that comes with running a service facility. Look at what has happened with Tesla. There have been confirmed reports at the height of this pandemic of people having to wait a month and a half to get their car into service and this was at one of the largest markets being NYC. Do you think things are going to be better in rural areas? I can hear the dealer haters now. Well, I work on my own car and don't need a dealer. Wrong. What are you going to do when there is a recall? The Takata air bag fiasco is an example of this. Do you think any of the manufacturers would be able to handle the huge numbers of cars needing new airbags under the recall?

I understand the need for dealers. It's unfortunate I have to deal with the whole pricing negotiation. I hate negotiating and would rather just have the whole model shift to MRP (manufacturer retail price) instead of MSRP (manufacturer suggested retail price). Although I have done decent deals on vehicles I've purchased despite hating the negotiating aspect.

There’s no need for dealers though. All functions they perform could be handled by corporate shops, even the ones you described. I am sure the automakers could make a bit more money this way. The problem is the lobby and state laws. It can easily be done but when you have to fight, and win, 40+ fights to make it worthwhile to do it at scale, it’s dead before it can start.

[Westside Guy]

Originally Posted by Marmugmotleocay

Salesman told me the M3 competitions are a year and a half out.

They told that to a friend of mine back in January but he got his allocation a month ago and his M3 Competition is now in production. Don't believe everything you hear from a dealer and always go to another one if you have any doubts.

[Blue87]

Originally Posted by chris719

There’s no need for dealers though. All functions they perform could be handled by corporate shops, even the ones you described. I am sure the automakers could make a bit more money this way. The problem is the lobby and state laws. It can easily be done but when you have to fight, and win, 40+ fights to make it worthwhile to do it at scale, it’s dead before it can start.

Part of what you wrote is the point I believe he is making. Auto manufacturers could setup maintenance shops and incur those costs, but the juice is probably not worth the squeeze since they already have a structure in place that uses privately owned dealership s. I don't think Tesla is producing and selling the number of vehicles the other larger manufacturers are.
This would take a significant amount of time for BMW, Ford etc to develope and might not be worth the investment at this point.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by Blue87

Part of what you wrote is the point I believe he is making. Auto manufacturers could setup maintenance shops and incur those costs, but the juice is probably not worth the squeeze since they already have a structure in place that uses privately owned dealership s. I don't think Tesla is producing and selling the number of vehicles the other larger manufacturers are.
This would take a significant amount of time for BMW, Ford etc to develope and might not be worth the investment at this point.

I think that without the state laws all over, they would be interested.