Cruising RPM ZF8 vs 6MT

hoss_wagon · 12-01-2022, 05:56 PM

I've got an build in the order bank with a 6MT. I was dead set on going with the 6MT since this will likely be the last generation of M-car with a manual transmission, but after playing around with an RPM calculator I'm not so sure.

Right or wrong, I made the assumption that the M2 will have the same gearing as the 2022 G80 manual and auto cars. If so, when equipped with the 6MT, the engine would be turning 2,955rpm @ 80mph but with the ZF8 it would only be 2,025 rpm @ 80mph. 900 rpm is a pretty huge difference in my book and while I'm not buying it for mpg it makes me second guess my choice.

This car will be my daily driver 8-10 months out of the year and my commute is mostly interstate. I'm not sure I'll enjoy droning along at 3k rpm on the highway for an hour a day....

Anyone driven the 6MT G80 as a daily with mostly highway driving? I'd like to hear your perspective if you have.

Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?

StickyPickle · 12-01-2022, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoss_wagon

Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?

Nope

Bumpinjeep · 12-01-2022, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoss_wagon

Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?

No of course not. You have a chance to buy probably the last M car with a real transmission and you're thinking of getting an auto because the RPM may be lower when you're cruising on the freeway?
I'm going to be honest with you, do you know how absurd that sounds?
No, it's not going to drone.
Order the car with the 6 speed and thank us when it's delivered and you actually want to drive it.

trey100 · 12-01-2022, 08:01 PM

F80 M3 here and yes, about 3,000 rpm at 80 mph. Never impacted my fuel consumption though. I drove mix of country roads and highway and averaged 23.5 over the course of 80k+ miles.

Game · 12-01-2022, 08:02 PM

I'm sure it'll be louder. I don't think the G87 is an ideal daily driver.

BRAKE! · 12-01-2022, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

No of course not. You have a chance to buy probably the last M car with a real transmission and you're thinking of getting an auto because the RPM may be lower when you're cruising on the freeway?
I'm going to be honest with you, do you know how absurd that sounds?
No, it's not going to drone.
Order the car with the 6 speed and thank us when it's delivered and you actually want to drive it.

Yeah... OP, buying a manual should come down to one thing - feeling more connected to the car.

Short of that reason, there is no other reason to get a manual over auto. The auto does everything else much better (to be honest, if the G87 is anything like the G80, the auto probably suits this car better than the manual) - but of course, I'm still getting a manual

Moflow · 12-01-2022, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoss_wagon

I've got an build in the order bank with a 6MT. I was dead set on going with the 6MT since this will likely be the last generation of M-car with a manual transmission, but after playing around with an RPM calculator I'm not so sure.

Right or wrong, I made the assumption that the M2 will have the same gearing as the 2022 G80 manual and auto cars. If so, when equipped with the 6MT, the engine would be turning 2,955rpm @ 80mph but with the ZF8 it would only be 2,025 rpm @ 80mph. 900 rpm is a pretty huge difference in my book and while I'm not buying it for mpg it makes me second guess my choice.

This car will be my daily driver 8-10 months out of the year and my commute is mostly interstate. I'm not sure I'll enjoy droning along at 3k rpm on the highway for an hour a day....

Anyone driven the 6MT G80 as a daily with mostly highway driving? I'd like to hear your perspective if you have.

Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?

For what it's worth, that's about the RPM I cruise at when i'm going 80 in my F87.

You don't really notice the engine over the sound of the tires. Unless they add a ton of sound deadening to the G87, i suspect it'll be the same. Most of the NVH at 80 mph isn't coming from the engine, i6 engines are notoriously smooth even at 3K RPM.

DrJLag420 · 12-01-2022, 08:16 PM

I'm keeping my M240 for the daily grind. The ZF is nice and smooth with quick shifts and great fuel economy. I do miss rowing the gears sometimes. That's why my M2 will be a 6-speed manual. I will probably drive it to work once in a while. Mostly a toy. And I've always wanted an M2. I wouldn't pass up a chance to get the 6-speed seeing as they are becoming less available, but you gotta do you. Happy motoring. Cheers!

trey100 · 12-01-2022, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BRAKE!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bumpinjeep

No of course not. You have a chance to buy probably the last M car with a real transmission and you're thinking of getting an auto because the RPM may be lower when you're cruising on the freeway?
I'm going to be honest with you, do you know how absurd that sounds?
No, it's not going to drone.
Order the car with the 6 speed and thank us when it's delivered and you actually want to drive it.

Yeah... OP, buying a manual should come down to one thing - feeling more connected to the car.

Short of that reason, there is no other reason to get a manual over auto. The auto does everything else much better (to be honest, if the G87 is anything like the G80, the auto probably suits this car better than the manual) - but of course, I'm still getting a manual

Even though I would get the G80 in manual as well, I would say due to physical size (not weight), the G80 is not a bad fit for an auto. But the G87 proportions are still tidy enough that a manual seems right. In the G80 you have a comp model with AWD, so there is a potential upside in the auto. But here with the G87 I wouldn't even think twice about choosing the manual over the auto.

Albator_IIII · 12-01-2022, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trey100

F80 M3 here and yes, about 3,000 rpm at 80 mph. Never impacted my fuel consumption though. I drove mix of country roads and highway and averaged 23.5 over the course of 80k+ miles.

Not bad MPG. Good to know.

zero21 · 12-02-2022, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hoss_wagon

Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?

A little bit. Mostly because it seems needless and they could have played with ratios better as any engineering mind would gravitate toward problem solving. It's more of an annoyance than I originally considered.

But I'm still choosing it. That's the trade-off for dual personality vehicle - road car and track beast. And it won't be my daily! Haha

zero21 · 12-02-2022, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albator_IIII

Not bad MPG. Good to know.

22-23mpg times 12.5 usable gallons is like, meh, at best.

DBV · 12-03-2022, 08:57 AM

I had similar concerns before pulling the trigger on my '16 F80 and drove the DCT and Manual before buying. The extra gear in the DCT DID account for a bit more aggressive gearing on the manual to achieve the same speed. Ultimately though, I found the sound in the cabin (that's with the so-so sounding S55), as well as the feel at 80mph just fine in the manual. Enjoyably, I was cruising at around 2750-2900 in the manual, which actually let me sit right in the torque curve - allowing for nice thrust when flooring it in 6th.

Unless you're using the M2 as a freeway commuter or are one of the die hard "must have fastest version" buyers, I consider the difference negligible, as a whole.

KC87ZB · 12-03-2022, 04:36 PM

Are we sure that the final drive ratio is the same between the MT and AT? They frequently are not.

aerobod · 12-03-2022, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TR23-87

Are we sure that the final drive ratio is the same between the MT and AT? They frequently are not.

They are not the same, The manual is 3.462:1, the automatic is 3.154:1.

More spec info in the BMW press release: https://www.press.bmwgroup.com/globa...04444EN/568008

6th gear in the manual is 0.846 for a drive ratio of 2.929:1, 8th gear in the auto is 0.640 for a drive ratio of 2.019:1.

MmmmmM2 · 12-05-2022, 12:10 PM

Not that it has any relevance on anything here, but the DCT is at about 2,500 rpm at 80mph.

12-01-2022, 05:56 PM	#1
hoss_wagon Private 237 Rep 92 Posts Drives: 2019 X3 M40i, 2024 M2 6MT Join Date: Feb 2022 Location: STL MO iTrader: (0)	Cruising RPM ZF8 vs 6MT I've got an build in the order bank with a 6MT. I was dead set on going with the 6MT since this will likely be the last generation of M-car with a manual transmission, but after playing around with an RPM calculator I'm not so sure. Right or wrong, I made the assumption that the M2 will have the same gearing as the 2022 G80 manual and auto cars. If so, when equipped with the 6MT, the engine would be turning 2,955rpm @ 80mph but with the ZF8 it would only be 2,025 rpm @ 80mph. 900 rpm is a pretty huge difference in my book and while I'm not buying it for mpg it makes me second guess my choice. This car will be my daily driver 8-10 months out of the year and my commute is mostly interstate. I'm not sure I'll enjoy droning along at 3k rpm on the highway for an hour a day.... Anyone driven the 6MT G80 as a daily with mostly highway driving? I'd like to hear your perspective if you have. Does this info make anyone in a similar boat reconsider their transmission choice?
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12-01-2022, 08:01 PM	#4
trey100 Colonel 1129 Rep 2,564 Posts Drives: 2020 M2 Competition Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: New York iTrader: (0)	F80 M3 here and yes, about 3,000 rpm at 80 mph. Never impacted my fuel consumption though. I drove mix of country roads and highway and averaged 23.5 over the course of 80k+ miles.
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12-01-2022, 08:02 PM	#5
Game ------ 8133 Rep 10,611 Posts Drives: G80 LCI, G87 (sold) Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Chicago'ish iTrader: (25)	I'm sure it'll be louder. I don't think the G87 is an ideal daily driver. __________________
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12-01-2022, 08:16 PM	#8
DrJLag420 Lieutenant 842 Rep 511 Posts Drives: 2022 BMW M240i Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Private iTrader: (0)	I'm keeping my M240 for the daily grind. The ZF is nice and smooth with quick shifts and great fuel economy. I do miss rowing the gears sometimes. That's why my M2 will be a 6-speed manual. I will probably drive it to work once in a while. Mostly a toy. And I've always wanted an M2. I wouldn't pass up a chance to get the 6-speed seeing as they are becoming less available, but you gotta do you. Happy motoring. Cheers!
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12-03-2022, 08:57 AM	#13
DBV Captain 797 Rep 965 Posts Drives: G87 M2, G20 330d, Brabus Smart Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: Berlin iTrader: (0) Garage List 2023 BMW M2 [9.17] 2018 Brabus Smart [10.00] 2021 BMW 330d [10.00]	I had similar concerns before pulling the trigger on my '16 F80 and drove the DCT and Manual before buying. The extra gear in the DCT DID account for a bit more aggressive gearing on the manual to achieve the same speed. Ultimately though, I found the sound in the cabin (that's with the so-so sounding S55), as well as the feel at 80mph just fine in the manual. Enjoyably, I was cruising at around 2750-2900 in the manual, which actually let me sit right in the torque curve - allowing for nice thrust when flooring it in 6th. Unless you're using the M2 as a freeway commuter or are one of the die hard "must have fastest version" buyers, I consider the difference negligible, as a whole. __________________ @DBV_ Current: '23 G87 M2 6MT / '21 G20 330d / '18 Brabus Smart Gone: '21 G05 X5 M50d / '18 MB C63s (632hp) / '16 F80 M3 6MT (570hp) / '09 F01 750i / '16 Abarth 595 Competizione (202hp)
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12-03-2022, 04:36 PM	#14
KC87ZB First Lieutenant 446 Rep 352 Posts Drives: 2023 M2 Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: Kansas City iTrader: (0) Garage List 2023 BMW M2 [10.00]	Are we sure that the final drive ratio is the same between the MT and AT? They frequently are not.
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12-05-2022, 12:10 PM	#16
MmmmmM2 Colonel 2668 Rep 2,463 Posts Drives: 2021 M2C Join Date: Mar 2019 Location: Claremont, CA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2016 Mazda CX-5 [0.00] 2021 BMW M2C [0.00]	Not that it has any relevance on anything here, but the DCT is at about 2,500 rpm at 80mph.
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