[XC3LLR8]

I've been reading that Jesse DaBears is DaMan when it comes to tuning the JB4 for the B58, specifically for Supra's. Safer, smoother, and more responsive than the JB4 maps. So I emailed him today to ask if his tunes work on our cars and he quickly replied they do.

I'm thinking the Dual Maps option for E30 and 93, and then I'd use Map 1 or 2 if on a road trip and only 91 is available. Combine this with the xHP maps for the transmission and the M240i could become a whole new beast!

Anyone have any experience with these tunes?

https://1fastsupra.com/products/a90-...42410536698087

https://shop.rbttuning.com/products/...42740852654304

[Rdurty2]

Never heard of him. $700 for jb4 settings?! GTFO

Are you sure these aren’t back end flashes to be paired with the jb4?

You can get custom flash tunes cheaper

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Rdurty2

Never heard of him. $700 for jb4 settings?! GTFO

Are you sure these aren’t back end flashes to be paired with the jb4?

You can get custom flash tunes cheaper

He's a god in the Supra community. No, they are not back-end flashes, but rather a custom tune to be loaded under Map 6.

Supposedly, the difference between Map 2 and his tune is as drastic as going from OEM to Map 2, but safer, smoother, and more reliable. People that have used his tunes swear by them. Research him and let me know if anything I'm saying is not accurate.

[Rw-M240]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

I've been reading that Jesse DaBears is DaMan when it comes to tuning the JB4 for the B58, specifically for Supra's. Safer, smoother, and more responsive than the JB4 maps. So I emailed him today to ask if his tunes work on our cars and he quickly replied they do.

I'm thinking the Dual Maps option for E30 and 93, and then I'd use Map 1 or 2 if on a road trip and only 91 is available. Combine this with the xHP maps for the transmission and the M240i could become a whole new beast!

Anyone have any experience with these tunes?

https://1fastsupra.com/products/a90-...42410536698087

https://shop.rbttuning.com/products/...42740852654304

I have his tune on my g42 and it's runs amazing. Just have 91 tune since I don't have 93 in my area but it's way better then map 2/3. I've send over 15 logs to him and he's fine tuned everything so it runs great. Also have catless down pipe, milltek catback, bms intake and xhp stage 3. Complete differ car from stock.

[mike@x-ph.com]

I never worked with him, but he's got an excellent reputation on the Supra forums.

He's also a cool and respectful guy.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Rw-M240

I have his tune on my g42 and it's runs amazing. Just have 91 tune since I don't have 93 in my area but it's way better then map 2/3. I've send over 15 logs to him and he's fine tuned everything so it runs great. Also have catless down pipe, milltek catback, bms intake and xhp stage 3. Complete differ car from stock.

How exactly does it work - you pay for the tune you want and then he sends instructions on how to send logs, he then tunes based off of those logs and then sends you back an update?

[Rw-M240]

You send him a base log then he will send over a screen shot of what to put in and then you just repeat until the car feels good. Here is one of the ones he sent me.

[Jack@AUTOID]

Originally Posted by Rw-M240

You send him a base log then he will send over a screen shot of what to put in and then you just repeat until the car feels good. Here is one of the ones he sent me.

So he tells you the values to enter to tune the car via the JB4 app?

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Jack@AUTOID

So he tells you the values to enter to tune the car via the JB4 app?

Exactly

[Rw-M240]

Correct here is another example of the first base line map. Honestly the car feels about the same as map 2-3 mabe a bit faster but the power delivery is so smooth compared to the ots maps.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Rw-M240

I have his tune on my g42 and it's runs amazing. Just have 91 tune since I don't have 93 in my area but it's way better then map 2/3. I've send over 15 logs to him and he's fine tuned everything so it runs great. Also have catless down pipe, milltek catback, bms intake and xhp stage 3. Complete differ car from stock.

Did you ever try Map 4 with the EWG connected before going with Jesse's tune? 15 logs seems like a lot, and just wondering how it compared to Map 4. I'm currently running Map 4 with E30 and it runs great...but I guess "great" is subjective.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Rw-M240

Correct here is another example of the first base line map. Honestly the car feels about the same as map 2-3 mabe a bit faster but the power delivery is so smooth compared to the ots maps.

I'm assuming the boost at each of the RPM's in your screenshot is an additive?

[Rw-M240]

Yes map 4 didn’t run for some reason because of my aftermarket down pipe. And after all I have sent only 10 logs and the car is running the best it has. Also had to do a couple extra logs since I started this in summer and now it’s 0 degrees where I live. The outside temps really affect the jb4 maps I can tell.

[Rw-M240]

Correct that’s just how much it’s adding at those rpm’s not total boost pressure.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by Rw-M240

Yes map 4 didn’t run for some reason because of my aftermarket down pipe. And after all I have sent only 10 logs and the car is running the best it has. Also had to do a couple extra logs since I started this in summer and now it’s 0 degrees where I live. The outside temps really affect the jb4 maps I can tell.

What happens when summer rolls back around? Do you just pull up the data Jesse sent you in the summer and re-enter?

[PNTDG42]

you guys dont feel at all like you are splitting hairs going back and forth over boost control settings? Ramping the boost increase in is nice for smoother power delivery and less rod bending torque, but once you're dialed in there; what are you really changing by going back and forth so much? Seems like you must be running right up on the ragged edge of the fuel injection if weather is all it takes to start running too lean and experiencing knock retard or boost protection/reduction.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

you guys dont feel at all like you are splitting hairs going back and forth over boost control settings? Ramping the boost increase in is nice for smoother power delivery and less rod bending torque, but once you're dialed in there; what are you really changing by going back and forth so much? Seems like you must be running right up on the ragged edge of the fuel injection if weather is all it takes to start running too lean and experiencing knock retard or boost protection/reduction.

I've read a lot of feedback with Jesse's tunes in the Supra community, all 100% positive, but I must admit it concerns me a little now that I've read the tune mentioned here needed adjusting with weather. Maybe it was a minor change due to Jesse being a perfectionist?

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

I've read a lot of feedback with Jesse's tunes in the Supra community, all 100% positive, but I must admit it concerns me a little now that I've read the tune mentioned here needed adjusting with weather. Maybe it was a minor change due to Jesse being a perfectionist?

There is clearly a large disconnect between what people have been led to believe a JB4 is doing with a B58, and the reality of what it’s doing. It should be made more clear that this is not a tuner, and you don’t use it to tune the car.

It is being installed as a modern interpretation of a boost controller, as the original concepts of boost controllers would not work with full EWG engines.

Aside from turning up the boost; it’s other job is to make sure that the ECU is unaware that it has done so. IMHO this means that it is actually the opposite of tuning. Though this is most likely necessary otherwise it would with little doubt bump into some type of overboost protection strategy and become a mess.

You are running a bone stock tune. The reason your engine doesn’t come apart is because modern advanced failsafe strategies. Knock sensors and wideband o2 sensors are standing watch and reactively adjusting ignition advance and fuel injection. The ECU doesn’t see the extra boost; but it does see the side effects coming out the other end. It has short and long term tables where it remembers what it’s seen and what it took to reel it back in, so that hopefully next time it happens it’s accommodating the (would be) out of bounds conditions proactively.

What it all means in short; you crank the boost and let the engines failsafes take over the tuning. You can do this until you have either overextended the fuel injection system (either via duty cycle or fuel system flow by volume), or you have exceeded the failsafes maximum range of allowed adjustment.

If your car is running anything other than flawless under these conditions, you have led your pistons and/or connecting rods into very dangerous waters.

I like the idea of using your JB4 to softly ramp boost to reduce the onslaught of torque. That’s good. Can’t say I recommend pushing the failsafes to the brink though. It only works until it doesn’t.

[XC3LLR8]

Originally Posted by PNTDG42

There is clearly a large disconnect between what people have been led to believe a JB4 is doing with a B58, and the reality of what it’s doing. It should be made more clear that this is not a tuner, and you don’t use it to tune the car.

It is being installed as a modern interpretation of a boost controller, as the original concepts of boost controllers would not work with full EWG engines.

Aside from turning up the boost; it’s other job is to make sure that the ECU is unaware that it has done so. IMHO this means that it is actually the opposite of tuning. Though this is most likely necessary otherwise it would with little doubt bump into some type of overboost protection strategy and become a mess.

You are running a bone stock tune. The reason your engine doesn’t come apart is because modern advanced failsafe strategies. Knock sensors and wideband o2 sensors are standing watch and reactively adjusting ignition advance and fuel injection. The ECU doesn’t see the extra boost; but it does see the side effects coming out the other end. It has short and long term tables where it remembers what it’s seen and what it took to reel it back in, so that hopefully next time it happens it’s accommodating the (would be) out of bounds conditions proactively.

What it all means in short; you crank the boost and let the engines failsafes take over the tuning. You can do this until you have either overextended the fuel injection system (either via duty cycle or fuel system flow by volume), or you have exceeded the failsafes maximum range of allowed adjustment.

If your car is running anything other than flawless under these conditions, you have led your pistons and/or connecting rods into very dangerous waters.

I like the idea of using your JB4 to softly ramp boost to reduce the onslaught of torque. That’s good. Can’t say I recommend pushing the failsafes to the brink though. It only works until it doesn’t.

That was a very informative explanation, and exactly why most everyone prefers a true flash tune...but here we are.

And not meaning any disrespect, but it sort of reads like you're suggesting Jesse's tunes, or the JB4 in general, is not very safe. I've heard there's been lots of blown turbos with Map 3, which likely coincides with your explanation of the fail-safes being over-extended. However, for maps 1, 2, 4, and 5, plus 6 when done by someone that knows what they're doing, all my research suggests the JB4, and the Dinan, are great products with a tremendous track record. Will catastrophes sometimes happen? Of course, but that's part of the game. Heck, there's even risk in simply doing a dyno with a stock car.

Something else you made me wonder about is regarding the knock sensors. Does this mean our cars with piggyback tunes are essentially working non-stop off of knock detection? I sure hope not!

[PNTDG42]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

That was a very informative explanation, and exactly why most everyone prefers a true flash tune...but here we are.

And not meaning any disrespect, but it sort of reads like you're suggesting Jesse's tunes, or the JB4 in general, is not very safe. I've heard there's been lots of blown turbos with Map 3, which likely coincides with your explanation of the fail-safes being over-extended. However, for maps 1, 2, 4, and 5, plus 6 when done by someone that knows what they're doing, all my research suggests the JB4, and the Dinan, are great products with a tremendous track record. Will catastrophes sometimes happen? Of course, but that's part of the game. Heck, there's even risk in simply doing a dyno with a stock car.

Something else you made me wonder about is regarding the knock sensors. Does this mean our cars with piggyback tunes are essentially working non-stop off of knock detection? I sure hope not!

Mostly what I’m getting at; is that we are not tuning here. Pushing the boost to find the limits of your factory engine failsafes on your given fuel blend and then backing it up a little is not tuning, not where I come from. So largely I’m just talking because I am triggered by the loose use of a phrase I take more seriously

Yes by merely cranking the boost and make no adjustments to ignition or fuel injection to accommodate it, you are now leaning on your knock feedback strategy full time along with wideband o2 feedback. But the ECU does have trim tables where it “remembers” things so you aren’t just knocking like hell every time you floor it. Probably the first few times though, as it takes notice and learns.

I’m not saying jesses “tune” isn’t safe. Sounds like he’s watching the logs and finding how far your combo can go before you’re beyond the thresholds of protection. Sounds like that in essence is what you are paying for.. otherwise anyone can turn up boost more. Watching your logs for issues and bringing in the boost softer is all you can really do to make it safer though. You’re very limited in capabilities with just boost control, no matter how strategic.

[PNTDG42]

Also I’d like to add that there are piggybacks that genuinely can tune ignition and injection systems to varying degrees. In fact I am quite sure that the JB4 is even capable of it, based on things they advertise about it. But not as installed per their direction. It simply is not wiring up to nearly enough places to do much. I’m assuming there is something about the B58 and S58 that is incompatible with those features of the JB4 otherwise I’m sure they would use it. It’s not clear to me why they don’t, only that they aren’t, as is made very clear by how it installs.

[P_Chris]

I’m confused. I ran jb4 on other cars and Burger Motorsports will assist in settings or “tuning” for free. Never seen anyone pay for map 6 settings.