[FrozenGT]

I remember since I was a kid from the early 90s BMWs have always been plagued by reliability issues. I was thinking.. I know why.

BMWs have always been the value segment when it comes to performance cars. they’re not as expensive as Porsche but more expensive than the competitors.

The reason being is because Bmw had to figure out a way to keep cost down, but without losing performance. Meaning BMWs used a lot of cheap plastic and a lot of other materials to keep weight down. but at the same time, trying to give buyers the most performance for the buck but sacrificing reliability..

Porsche, on the other hand, went all out on performance and luxury and they charged you for it.

Bmw , unfortunately did not have the money I believe in the past decade to build a reliable car at the same time maximum performance with quality in mine, which is hard to do and this is why a lot of Japanese competitors, including Lexus had a hard time in the performance area without sacrificing their liability.

This is my take on things I currently on a 2020 F82 M4 heritage along with a 2022 X3 M40i before that I had a 2020 M2 competition.

I personally have not experienced any reliability issues. .

['Cane]

BMW has been among the top for reliability (among the premium brands) for a while. Here is JD Power for 2023. Personally, I’ve had 10 BMWs over the last 20 years and all have been problem free.

https://www.jdpower.com/business/pre...ility-studyvds

[CanAutM3]

I’ve had 4 ///M cars over 20 years, all purchased new. Looking back, they became less and less reliable with each successive generation.

[2011ninja]

Lol!!!!

[MinMax]

Should also consider how people drive or mod these bmw performance cars too that results in reliability issue.

[vbb]

What a strange thread.

[V1L3]

Tesla didn't throw a monkey wrench into shit. If a BMW isn't luxury then a Tesla is a mid 90s Ford. Just because their range topping Model S goes zero to a billion in under 2 seconds, doesn't make the rest of their offerings compare.

A Model 3 and Model Y Performance until recently sold for damn near 65K. For that you got instant torque that got you to 60 in 3.1 and then the cars fell on their face. If you are already driving at highway or interstate speeds, a Honda Accord would pull on you.

3s and Ys, Tesla's most sold vehicles, are offered in like 5 or 6 colors, have no HUD, no driver positioned speedometer, and everything must be accomplished with a giant iPad bolted to the dash. You want to operate you windshield wipers? Touch. You want to control the angle of your vents? Touch and drag. You want to pop open your glove box? Touch. You want to connect to Android Auto or Apple Carplay...lol NOPE! All this tech and you can't integrate your phone.

Ever buy a "luxury" car that have new owners carrying around a checklist of problem areas to inspect upon delivery of a car? Seriously, look it up. To this day these cars suffer from severe panel gap and unpainted/protected surfaces. A freaking steering wheel came off of one recently while an owner was driving. So, yup Tesla and their giant monkey wrench that isn't being used to torque down steering rack bolts.

Insurance is a crap shoot. If you go with any of the mainstream companies, they will charge you a big premium, because they still don't know their heads from their ass with Tesla. If you are lucky or unlucky enough to live in Texas or California, then you have access through Tesla insurance which is far cheaper....

Until your Model 3 Performance narcs on you. Yup, Big Brother is watching you while you speed, brake aggressively, or turn with too many Gs. Then your premium goes through the roof...no speeding ticket or accident required.

How do I know all of this? I was a customer. A Tesla isn't a luxury car, in fact it barely qualifies as a car. It's an appliance, like a wifi connected washing machine with wheels.

And just like an appliance maker, the moment Black Friday or Presidents Day sales comes around Tesla will knock 20% off of a product that a bunch of their customers paid full price for a week prior.

You see any luxury brands doing that shit?

Edit - And self drive is a gimmick. Until every car manufacturer has integrated it in a way that they can communicate with one another, and use something more than cameras (which Tesla switched back to in order to cut costs) to see the world around them... it will stay a gimmick. Can't even convince the coal rolling Good 'Ole Boys in the southeast (of the US) to even try an EV. You think they are going to give Skynet the wheel? Only Jesus gets that honor in those parts.

[skim]

All my BMWs have been bullet proof (well e36 with interior bits all falling off but mechanically nothing went wrong), but my sister's e92 was a different story. The damn waterpump and thermo kept on going out every 2 years or so, the belt extender thing gave out in the extended position so getting in and out was as if the car had a bucket seat, you had to tilt your upper body forward and ass in first. Despite all that, she loved the car, drove that for more than 10 years before getting a tesla.

[02M3ForMe]

Originally Posted by CanAutM3

I’ve had 4 ///M cars over 20 years, all purchased new. Looking back, they became less and less reliable with each successive generation.

Opposite experience for me; they’ve gotten more reliable and robust with each generation and my anecdotal ownership experience is in line with this trend.

I think this may be the first M3 generation without a serious known flaw. S58 has been used in lots of products and haven’t heard about any issues with engine bearings, cooling system, throttle actuators, timing components, etc.

Of course, you may have experienced something different in your specific case.

[FrozenGT]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

I think there’s a decent amount of people who wouldn’t even look at a base Porsche with anything more than disappointment. I am not one of those people lol, but they are definitely out there and I don’t disagree with them that a stripper cayman or 911 is… a bit disappointing, especially for the money. Imo, you got to put at least a good $20k into any Porsche in extra options to make it nice.

If this is what you meant by going all out on performance/luxury - but they charge you for it, I agree.

I agree with you on BMW too, it has always, always been the value minded performance car to me. It compares well to Porsche, on a dollar for dollar basis, but Tesla really put a wrench in BMW’s general automotive pecking order.

BMW is not a luxury car to me either. I think the only people who believe that are blue collar workers who don’t make a lot of money. BMW has never been a luxury brand to the people I’ve known. It’s just a normal car maker with the exception that their cars go fast, and that’s really what the whole deal is/was. Then again, I don’t consider a Ford raptor a luxury vehicle either… but some people may, just based on the cost alone.

You buy a BMW if you want a fast car and can’t afford/don’t want to pay the P-car/Exotic tax. Or, at least you used to.

That’s why Tesla is so damaging to BMW in particular. A lot of those Tesla buyers would have been BMW buyers. Tesla stole the speed crown and BMW has been, imo, scrambling to redefine itself because it can no longer compete on the one metric that really was important to it, ultimate speed at a bargain [...]

Thanks for that! It’s very interesting 🤔

So who does Audi and MB compete with?

[V1L3]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

You sound ridiculous, and angry… peak fanbois right here. I don’t even like teslas.

However,
If you don’t think that Tesla has eaten into BMW’s market share (and primarily BMW) in a big uncomfortable way… you just don’t think.

Your post is a barely intelligible reactionary bile fest. Stop being so hurt.

Tesla sales are up 40% yoy.
BMW sales are down 5% yoy.
There’s many different ways to say the same thing but it’s evident, Tesla is hurting BMW.

All the crying, name calling, and tooth gnashing changes nothing. But, I hope BMW can turn it around. I think they can.

I posted that last night while drinking through my phone (truly incoherent and off topic). However, I noticed that...

I didn't call anyone a name, and I certainly didn't call anyone out, but it's interesting that you responded like I did. What you haven't done is dispute any of what I said about Teslas... because it's the truth.

Tesla sales are up? Yup. Tesla sales are also getting chipped into by VW in Europe and by Ford and GM in the states... severely:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnb...in-europe.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...are/index.html

If BMW sales are down as you say, Tesla would NOT be the only culprit... not when their rivals are managing just fine. Could be the huge price increases on cars between the generations. Weren't F80s and F82s far cheaper in their debut? Could be the controversial look of several of their cars. Could be the controversial look of the new interior; how many iDrive 8 vs iDrive 7 posts have you seen?

No, man, I'm not a "fanboi" of a car brand (especially since I change cars out as often as some people change underwear). But, I do know when I've driven a pile of shit. So my irritation last night was for Tesla, and not you.

Sorry if you felt that way, but I stand by my drunken and somewhat off topic Tesla (rant?) because I believe it.

[Forzanerazzurri]

https://www.autoblog.com/2023/02/16/...d-report-card/

[Likeanowl]

So bmw’s in my experience have been pretty bullet proof. Over the years I’ve had a few minor issues (even though my anxiety tells me they’re major), but for the most part they have been pretty damn solid.

HOWEVER…. In 2022 a new massively detrimental issue has been revealed for all G8x platforms and it’s utterly terrifying in my opinion….





Kid with bike. Kid with bike will utterly annihilate any G8x without warning. Once kid with bike occurs, all hope is lost. Just scrap it because you have no chance if recovery. That is… unless kid with bike is covered under warranty. But this has been up for debate for quite some time now.

Be careful everyone. This is a massive known issue and so far, nobody has come up with a fix for it. Beware!!!!

[madpistol]

BMW has always been a drivers car, an while that might have softened a bit over the years, the current generation 3 and 4 series are very much drivers cars. They are no longer as visceral and connected as they used to be, but it can also be argued that they are far more refined and livable than they used to be... which means bigger market appeal and in turn, a larger R&D budget... so better vehicles overall.

Toyota worked with BMW on the current Supra, and from what I've read, they learned a lot about developing a reliable vehicle from them during that process. If so, the days of BMW's reputation for poor reliability may be behind us.

As for luxury, BMW is not as flashy as Mercedes, but it is fairly well agreed upon that the quality of materials in BMW's current cars is higher than that of Mercedes. I personally will take build quality over flash any day of the week.

This means that BMW now has reliability, quality, and performance wrapped up into a single package with the current 3 and 4 series.... what more could you ask for in a car?

[Rotherd31]

https://www.bmwblog.com/2023/02/17/b...ports-ranking/

BMW #1. Obviously the small child on a bike hasn't reached their offices as yet.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

Your post is a barely intelligible reactionary bile fest.

Lovely. Post of the week award goes to DM5PAV

Originally Posted by Likeanowl

Kid with bike. Kid with bike will utterly annihilate any G8x without warning.

Fortunately my kids grew up and moved out before I got the car, so I'm OK.

[Psychos1s]

I've owned four 3 series bimmers and only one of them had issues. It was a 2009 330i used from a shady dealer and was a lemon from the start. My next car was a used 2013 328i. Zeroes issues before I traded it in for a brand new 2017 M3 zCP. Zero issues with the F80 over the course of 5.5 years. Traded the F80 for the G80 Comp and so far so good. Obviously it's only early days purchasing the car Sept '22.

I've been extremely happy with the reliability of BMW. *knock on wood

I've owned two new Toyota Rav 4's ('21 and '22) and have had more issues with them. Just little things where you have to take it in to a dealer to fix. But it still counts compared to "ZERO" issues with the three bimmers.

[V1L3]

Originally Posted by Psychos1s

I've owned four 3 series bimmers and only one of them had issues. It was a 2009 330i used from a shady dealer and was a lemon from the start. My next car was a used 2013 328i. Zeroes issues before I traded it in for a brand new 2017 M3 zCP. Zero issues with the F80 over the course of 5.5 years. Traded the F80 for the G80 Comp and so far so good. Obviously it's only early days purchasing the car Sept '22.

I've been extremely happy with the reliability of BMW. *knock on wood

I've owned two new Toyota Rav 4's ('21 and '22) and have had more issues with them. Just little things where you have to take it in to a dealer to fix. But it still counts compared to "ZERO" issues with the three bimmers.

The only brand (that is not Tesla) that I will throw shade at is Subaru, and only for their "performance" cars. We used a 2012 Outback for the family vehicle for years without issue, however, my 2013 STI was another story. I traded in my lightly modified 2007 Hawkeye WRX for the GR platform and regretted that decision from the moment I drove off the lot. The car was heavier than the prior generation and felt lethargic. The OEM tune was horrible, and that stock tune came back to bite me in the ass at 4K miles. The car popped a ringland inside of 6 months of ownership on the stock tune. No Cobb Accessport, no downpipe, just an Invidia Q300 catback.

Subaru gave me the run around for a couple months before honoring the warranty claim, but then took an additional month to get me a new motor. The fragility of EJ257s is honestly what pushed me into being an early adopter of an S550 Mustang. And for those of you saying that BMW M has lost their way, I will point you in the direction of the current WRX.... what the hell are they thinking.

I popped a motor in the Mustang a couple of years later, but that was because I was pushing 701 WHP on the stock bottom end with a blower and was asking for it. Took my "L" on that one and bought a built motor to replace it with.

Outside of the above, I have never had any major malfunctions with any brand. Some were more poorly put together than others, and some clearly had no regard for how Human Computer Interfaces (HCI) should work... but for reliability, nothing outside of a "performance" Subaru has truly left me stranded and calling AAA. The Outback was a great vehicle, however.

Haven't had a BMW long enough to find out what the failure points could be. So like you Psychos1s I'll be knocking on wood.

[space_2001]

Originally Posted by V1L3

Tesla didn't throw a monkey wrench into shit. If a BMW isn't luxury then a Tesla is a mid 90s Ford. Just because their range topping Model S goes zero to a billion in under 2 seconds, doesn't make the rest of their offerings compare.

A Model 3 and Model Y Performance until recently sold for damn near 65K. For that you got instant torque that got you to 60 in 3.1 and then the cars fell on their face. If you are already driving at highway or interstate speeds, a Honda Accord would pull on you.

3s and Ys, Tesla's most sold vehicles, are offered in like 5 or 6 colors, have no HUD, no driver positioned speedometer, and everything must be accomplished with a giant iPad bolted to the dash. You want to operate you windshield wipers? Touch. You want to control the angle of your vents? Touch and drag. You want to pop open your glove box? Touch. You want to connect to Android Auto or Apple Carplay...lol NOPE! All this tech and you can't integrate your phone.

Ever buy a "luxury" car that have new owners carrying around a checklist of problem areas to inspect upon delivery of a car? Seriously, look it up. To this day these cars suffer from severe panel gap and unpainted/protected surfaces. A freaking steering wheel came off of one recently while an owner was driving. So, yup Tesla and their giant monkey wrench that isn't being used to torque down steering rack bolts.

Insurance is a crap shoot. If you go with any of the mainstream companies, they will charge you a big premium, because they still don't know their heads from their ass with Tesla. If you are lucky or unlucky [...]

I totally agree, I think the Teslas are pretty much one trick ponies that appeal to the sort of people that are enamored with technology and minimalism. I don’t think they are really sports cars, more so just convenient commuter cars. The whole appeal of a BMW is that you’ll get a car that has character and heritage that most cars don’t. Sure they are not the nicest cars but the drivetrains are top notch and the chassis dynamics are incredible. Much better than most Asian vehicles and especially Teslas.

[V1L3]

Originally Posted by space_2001

I totally agree, I think the Teslas are pretty much one trick ponies that appeal to the sort of people that are enamored with technology and minimalism. I don’t think they are really sports cars, more so just convenient commuter cars. The whole appeal of a BMW is that you’ll get a car that has character and heritage that most cars don’t. Sure they are not the nicest cars but the drivetrains are top notch and the chassis dynamics are incredible. Much better than most Asian vehicles and especially Teslas.

I should have known better when I was doing my research before a purchase (i.e. watching a ridiculous amount of YouTube videos). When you are looking for info on a Corvette or Porsche, you will find everything from professional automotive journalists to amateur bloggers reviewing every aspect of the vehicle.

Now do the same for a Model Y. You will find a very different group of people being excited for and talking about the car. The same people that review annual iPhone/Samsung drops are the ones that geek out about the latest Tesla update and it's ability to generate fart noises. No one really focuses on the drivability, outside of "LOL it launches hard".

I was inebriated when I made that anti-Tesla post last night and didn't realize how abrasive I came off. But, the meat and potatoes are there. I do not disagree with a single thing I said after all that beer. I have long hypothesized that the moment that Ford, GM, Toyota, and VW decide to go all in on EVs... Tesla would loose their luster. It's already starting to happen.

[V1L3]

Originally Posted by DM5PAV

They’re up 40%

I was drunk, but I'm not illiterate. I read it when you posted it twice before. Did you read that Volkswagen has sold more cars then them last year in the EU (I posted a link)? Did you read about what is happening here in the states?

I never disputed them being up 40%, but they are still a small player compared to other brands due to the fact that they are still relatively new in the grand scheme of things (one of the youngest "car" manufacturers out there). So huge growth is not out of the question. If I were to, I don't know... put wheels on a washing machine and sell one as a car this year (laughed at that one after I reread it from my original post)... I'd be up 100% year over year.

What's more telling is that a brand that did not primarily sell EVs beat them at their own game in the EU last year. That's what I'm speaking to, brother.

You own TSLA stock or something, man?

[kooft]

Not even 1 year into ownership and these are the replacements I've had:

Interior driver carpeting and dead pedal
Rear podium due to broken components causing rattling
Both cluster and center screen
Interior cup holder is broken/damaged and item has been on back order since October 2022
Driver seat HVAC fan
Screens always have overlapping text and information when cycling through M mode or driver information. This is after a replacement and update.

My TPMS is always broken in the passenger rear and never shows correct temp or air pressure. 2 dealers will not repair.
Driver shift booth leather was damaged from factory and they did not want to repair or replace. I bought a replacement myself since it was a very annoying tension when in 5th gear.

Reliability rating is below 2/10. Amazing how there are others fortunate to have proper cars with no issues. May be it's the luck of the draw.

Ive had VWs, Porsches, Audis that have been more reliable. This car is one of the least reliable in my 18 years of driving. Car has been in dealership for repairs over 55 days in under 10 months.