[toprarnen]

Hi all, saw some threads where cross-shopping against specific models have been brought up (Mustang, Cayman, etc.), and I thought it might be good to have a universal "cross shopping" forum where we can discuss reasoning and insight.

On my personal list, the journey started when the FL5 CTR was made available but only at a high markup. The disappointment was palpable - the only way to realistically secure one would be for $10k over. Given that I would roughly be at $55k, I started to explore other options:

GR Corolla - Bare-bones interior, also marked up
IS350 - No manual, I drive one now from 2006 and the interior hasn't changed much in 18 years
Supra - Not very daily-usable, old BMW interior
718 Cayman - 4-cyl, pricing has gone up so much in the last two years that it's not even close any more...

and finally, a used M2. Pricing here was high enough (and the driving experience "meh" enough - I test drove a 2018 DCT) that I gave up and started to look at the new model, and now I've landed on the G87 as a somewhat reasonable purchase. The power was good, the price was acceptable, and the interior was good enough that I didn't feel like I was getting ripped off. I also liked it more than Porsche's build model, where you can easily add up to $10k worth of accessories without even trying (PASM, leather touchpoints, power seating, LED lights, etc.).

After driving a manual HEA G87, I really felt good enough about it that I kept my place on the dealer list (2 years out for fulfillment), and we'll see what happens before it gets here. The hope is that more colors are available by then (Skyscraper Grey would be perfect), and perhaps an early mid-cycle refresh would come out, like Hyundai just did with the Elantra N.

If I get a new job between now and delivery, the Lotus Emira might be a play, or I'll keep my eye on the used Cayman market to see if something good pops up. Ultimately, I do like the usability of the M2 vs the other options, but as long as I'm single, or in a 2-car household, why not enjoy some fun options?

Also, a perfect quote for the M2 as related to the Supra, Cayman, Emira, etc.
"A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one"

[BigBart33]

Most comparable car, besides the Audis below, to the M2 is the CT4-V Blackwing. It slots between the M2 and M3, and is the same price as the M2. Excellent chassis, available MT (Tremec!), decent tech and interior. 4 doors but similar weight to the M2. Similar engine specs (though it sounds way worse, and until they crack the ECM it’s less tunable than the G8x cars). I’m liking the muscular, unique look of the M2 more and more, but the CT4 still looks better IMO, with way more color options.

Audi has the RS3 which is the G87’s other direct competitor. Good pricing, AWD, and DCT. But performance, suspension, and tech all seem to be slightly worse. The fact that they had to stagger the tires the wrong way to /try/ and reduce understeer is pretty embarrassing lol. Engine sounds really cool though and Audi knocks the lighting out of the park (especially compared to BMW’s fumble on the G87 in this regard). They’re also basically impossible to tune last I checked. Then of course there’s the TT RS which is a bit more expensive but actually probably more comparable to the M2. They look great and performance was pretty well regarded when this gen came out a few years ago. But still down on power a fair amount and I’d bet the G87 M2 has a better chassis.

The C63S used to be cross shopped but it’s too expensive now. Would be more of an M4Cx competitor. Plus they added all that stupid “F1” hybrid tech. I’d say the other main competitors are the Mustang and Camaro, particularly the Mustang since it was just refreshed. But it’s in a different class, pony car vs luxury sports car.

From what I’ve been reading the F87 and G87 are barely comparable. IMO the F87 was not a great car, at least the non-comp. The last gen M2 had a subpar interior for the class and price, and the performance really was not all there. It did everything ok but nothing excellently IMO (except for the looks). People loved the “playfulness” I guess but personally I think a $60k luxury sports car should be extremely consistent and direct. The G87 seems to have an excellent interior along with the fantastic CLAR chassis, as well as a much more potent engine than the N55. I worry the G87 might still end up being a bit too much of a jack if all trades, master of none car but I’ll wait for some comparison reviews.

I suppose the Cayman could be cross shopped but the base model is way down on HP and when decently optioned costs an arm and a leg, like you noted. Plus it’s a two seater. You could also look at the C8 Corvette, which is probably what I’d get if I only needed 2 seats.. though it also gets quite expensive when optioned out.

Oh also I forgot about the RCF but it’s ancient now lmao. More of an F87 competitor. I’d be pretty interested if they refreshed that car..

Wow this got long.

[ourlee]

I’m looking for a daily GT car with good pedigree so mine are:

C8 convertible
pros VALUE, never owned a muscle car, mid engined, fun to drive, great GT, my build is only $82k, USA, good golf club trunk
cons big, looks wonky 35% of the times I see it, corvette bros
I love this car, my wife is growing lukewarm on it

718 sub $80k pre owned
pros it’s a real dynamic driver, it’s SMALL, good to own at least 1 p car in your life
cons I really wanted to sit with a SA, build my perfect car, then wait for it. I would have kept it forever. Sadly, they aren’t worth the $ BEFORE the $5k hike and $80k still doesn’t buy a 4.0.
not great for daily golf
I love this car, especially the Boxster, but the 4 cylinder is such a shit value I can’t pull the trigger

Emira I’m on the 4 cylinder list and fell in love with my demo drive (6) BUT Lotus just jacked up the price $15k. I probably can’t afford it but Lotus still hasn’t told us what a base car will cost. I’m guessing $90k, much rather have a 4.0 718 for that.
If you get an opportunity to drive one , do it, it’s fantastic. Only con is the $$$.

I’m leaning M2 because the value, the ZB, M pedigree, size and crazy ass looks. My wife and I both love it. A perfect daily for this retired dude.

Must add if I could find a 991.2 T CPO with low miles around $90 I’d buy the shit out of it and keep it forever

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by BigBart33

Most comparable car, besides the Audis below, to the M2 is the CT4-V Blackwing...

Audi has the RS3 which is the G87’s other direct competitor. Good pricing, AWD, and DCT. But performance, suspension, and tech all seem to be slightly worse. The fact that they had to stagger the tires the wrong way to /try/ and reduce understeer is pretty embarrassing lol. Engine sounds really cool though and Audi knocks the lighting out of the park

From what I’ve been reading the F87 and G87 are barely comparable. IMO the F87 was not a great car, at least the non-comp. The last gen M2 had a subpar interior for the class and price, and the performance really was not all there.

I suppose the Cayman could be cross shopped but the base model is way down on HP and when decently optioned costs an arm and a leg, like you noted. Plus it’s a two seater. You could also look at the C8 Corvette, which is probably what I’d get if I only needed 2 seats.. though it also gets quite expensive when optioned out.

Oh also I forgot about the RCF but it’s ancient now lmao. More of an F87 competitor. I’d be pretty interested if they refreshed that car..

Wow this got long.

The US-made cars are hard for me to like; there's just something about the interiors that turn me off... Also, looking for a manual as well, which takes many good cars off the menu (C8 Corvette, RS3, G70, IS500). If I didn't mind the US cars, the Blackwing would totally be on my list, along with the Camaro.

To your point, the only thing I prefer from the F87 are the gauges, all else is better in the new G87 from my limited experience. And is that RCF even worth talking about? I mean, it was cool when it came out, but it's barely changed since its release in 2014...

[FryCookOnVenus]

Depending how wide a net we're casting, I'd add the Golf R to the list.

Between the hatch and AWD, it's probably the most versatile performance car on the market. And, it can be had with a stick.

On the flip side, the interior is staggeringly bad and from what I can tell, inventory is virtually zero and ADMs are standard.

I've loved my Mk7 GTI and if the new R were to get an interior redesign, I'd happily save myself $20k from the M2 and swoop up an R at MSRP. But, as it stands now, for me the M2 is a better car (obviously) and a better value.

[BigBart33]

Originally Posted by toprarnen

The US-made cars are hard for me to like; there's just something about the interiors that turn me off... Also, looking for a manual as well, which takes many good cars off the menu (C8 Corvette, RS3, G70, IS500). If I didn't mind the US cars, the Blackwing would totally be on my list, along with the Camaro.

To your point, the only thing I prefer from the F87 are the gauges, all else is better in the new G87 from my limited experience. And is that RCF even worth talking about? I mean, it was cool when it came out, but it's barely changed since its release in 2014...

Glad to hear the G87 is better in every way. Can’t wait to test drive one.

I’d sit in the CT4 BW if there’s one available near you, you might be surprised. I agree as a whole BMW does an excellent job at interiors, you can tell a lot of thought is put into them. But the Cadillac is surprisingly good- very nice touch points, very customizable gauge cluster and badass steering wheel. I might argue that the key things you interact with while driving are better than the M2: steering wheel, shifter, and seats. Lots of suede when optioned, idk why BMW refuses to use it outside of their CS models. But BMW still wins on overall refinement. Interestingly, I did feel the ATS-V was a pretty big upgrade from the F87’s interior minus the infotainment (especially considering the fantastic iDrive controller).

Originally Posted by FryCookOnVenus

Depending how wide a net we're casting, I'd add the Golf R to the list.

Between the hatch and AWD, it's probably the most versatile performance car on the market. And, it can be had with a stick.

On the flip side, the interior is staggeringly bad and from what I can tell, inventory is virtually zero and ADMs are standard.

I've loved my Mk7 GTI and if the new R were to get an interior redesign, I'd happily save myself $20k from the M2 and swoop up an R at MSRP. But, as it stands now, for me the M2 is a better car (obviously) and a better value.

I actually like VW interiors but the Golf R performance-wise isn’t all that comparable to the M2, and has a lower performance ceiling with mods. It is a good value at MSRP though, similarly to the M2. I do love the hatchback form factor, I wish Americans bought enough 5 doors to make a reasonably affordable, truly high performance one worth it to a manufacturer (RS3 and AMG A45 hatches are closest, but we don’t get them in the states obviously). The RS5 Sportback is cool but too expensive IMO (same goes for RS6 Avant and RS7). Also none have sticks.

M3 touring with a stick would be an instant buy for me at $80-$90k.

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by ourlee

I’m looking for a daily GT car with good pedigree so mine are...

The C8's golf club trunk is exactly why I don't like it; that rear end just doesn't do it for me 718 is a 718 (with all the ups and downs that we both seem to agree on), and for the price of the Emira around $90, I'd def be looking for a used 991 like you mentioned. I think I'd take that over a used GTS because, well, 911. M2 is really an all-rounder. The P-cars will drive better, the other ones look more exotic, but the M2 is really well rounded for daily use. If I wasn't into manuals, I'd save the $10k and go for the M240i or M340i.

Originally Posted by FryCookOnVenus

Depending how wide a net we're casting, I'd add the Golf R to the list.

Honestly, I was shocked when it came to markups on the R, it just didn't feel that special. That said, the Type R is also still cruising around $7-10k markup on the daily, so what do I know... For MSRP, both of these cars are GREAT for what they are.

Originally Posted by BigBart33

Glad to hear the G87 is better in every way. Can’t wait to test drive one...

M3 touring with a stick would be an instant buy for me at $80-$90k.

I stuck my head in a CT5-V Blackwing the other day. Not sure what it is about it, but American cars just don't quite have that pizzazz I'm looking for. The Porsche interior feels really nice and sophisticated; the Type R feels purpose built, if a bit flamboyant; the BMW feels commensurate with its price point, and touchpoints are generally nice (would upgrade the clutch and shifter); and the Volkswagen's a Volkswagen.

That M3 touring though... quite nice. I wish we could get a car with a better grill and those M3/M4 lights. They look nice and beefy compared to what we get with the newer 2-Series.

[VT Skier]

I'm considering an Integra Type S, which has been called a "tarted up Civic Type R". A little more usable with four doors, FWD for my steep Vermont driveway, Acura reliability and $20K less, before any mods.

But I've never owned a BMW, and the M2 appeals to me, so it's turned into a bit of a toss up. I'm waiting for ITS reviews.

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by VT Skier

I'm considering an Integra Type S, which has been called a "tarted up Civic Type R". A little more usable with four doors, FWD for my steep Vermont driveway, Acura reliability and $20K less, before any mods.

But I've never owned a BMW, and the M2 appeals to me, so it's turned into a bit of a toss up. I'm waiting for ITS reviews.

Yeah, it's hard not to find an extra $20k in the pocket appealing. You could buy a nice motorcycle, update a kitchen, go on a family vacation, eat like a king...

[VT Skier]

The Boss votes for updating the house, but we'll see. If not for my crazy driveway I'd definitely get the M2.

[M2Cmtl]

Since I need back seats for the occiasional trips wth the kids most cars are off the list. 6MT is also a must. Golf R is probably the only other car I would really consider but the new one feels really cheap inside and I hate the screen set up.

[toprarnen]

Originally Posted by M2Cmtl

Since I need back seats for the occiasional trips wth the kids most cars are off the list. 6MT is also a must. Golf R is probably the only other car I would really consider but the new one feels really cheap inside and I hate the screen set up.

Integra Type S would be my pick over the Golf R unless I needed AWD. Snow tires on that would probably do a fine job though. Similar space, better aesthetics IMO, and if I'm looking for practicality, FWD vs AWD would be less of a consideration.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by VT Skier

I'm considering an Integra Type S, which has been called a "tarted up Civic Type R". A little more usable with four doors, FWD for my steep Vermont driveway, Acura reliability and $20K less, before any mods.

But I've never owned a BMW, and the M2 appeals to me, so it's turned into a bit of a toss up. I'm waiting for ITS reviews.

the ITS looks incredible. im trying to convince my GF she needs to upgrade her 2019 TLX to that. But she wants a boring macan....

the ITS is going to compete with the m240i. and it can't win on the performance front there. but it is 700 pounds less and will probably have better steering feel and a better manual than what BMW offers.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

the ITS looks incredible. im trying to convince my GF she needs to upgrade her 2019 TLX to that. But she wants a boring macan....

the ITS is going to compete with the m240i. and it can't win on the performance front there. but it is 700 pounds less and will probably have better steering feel and a better manual than what BMW offers.

Agree, the ITS is a car to watch. Not in the M2's league or price bracket, assuming it costs around $50K. I'm not sure it has enough separation from the Civic R, would have to sit in it first.

Agree it is likely to have better steering feel than the m240, and of course the m240 doesn't even offer a manual, so there's that.

[Wheelwright]

I would take a hard look at higher Camaro trim levels such as at least: 2SS because they have upgraded interiors compared to cheaper versions. For example: you get a strip of leather on top of doors, which is absent from BMW M2, and even M3/M4 (unless you pay through the nose for the extra package). Also you get very nice perforated leather on the steering wheel & shift knob, together with real physical buttons for the AC & seats in the Camaro, and none of that scratch-and-fingerprints magnet otherwise known as: "black piano" (and if you live in hot climate GM's legendary "icecold" AC system and cooled seats come in handy). So I wouldn't discount the Camaro solely based on its "cheap" interior, because it is better than it seems. And that's before we even get to the equipment levels and the mechanicals, where the Camaro truly starts to shine.

[Chet for short]

I've had a deposit down on a Mk8 Golf R since 12/21. Don't want 4 doors, but a hatch is handy. I prefer 6MT but on the R I would get the DSG. I want something fun that I can get one of my bikes in. I'm replacing an N54 135i and the bike fits (just) with the seats folded and front wheel off. While waiting, I put a deposit on a G87 (in 11/22). Amazingly I got the allocation on the M2 a couple weeks ago. Definitely my preference.

[PaleGreen]

How about the Tesla Model 3 Performance? Checks a lot of the same boxes. Seems like a lot of car for 46k after tax credit. It's on my short list.

[M_Tune]

Originally Posted by Chet for short

I've had a deposit down on a Mk8 Golf R since 12/21. Don't want 4 doors, but a hatch is handy. I prefer 6MT but on the R I would get the DSG. I want something fun that I can get one of my bikes in. I'm replacing an N54 135i and the bike fits (just) with the seats folded and front wheel off. While waiting, I put a deposit on a G87 (in 11/22). Amazingly I got the allocation on the M2 a couple weeks ago. Definitely my preference.

I have a mk7.5 golf R and won’t be trading it when my M2 is delivered. I don’t think any M car can handle back roads with aplomb like the R does.

The only 2 cars I considered before depositing on the M2 were the M3 comp for x-drive and the CTV4-blackwing. I came very close to buying the blackwing and in my unbiased opinion it is likely the most sorted chassis of any RWD sedan available today. Patriot’s should feel proud with what Cadillac was able to accomplish.

Ultimately I chose the M2 for the S58 engine as the Blackwing is easily reeled in by a Supra with the B58 engine.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by PaleGreen

How about the Tesla Model 3 Performance? Checks a lot of the same boxes. Seems like a lot of car for 46k after tax credit. It's on my short list.

Unless things have changed, it handles medium-to-badly, the interior is worse, the wheel options are awful, and the interior ergonomics are borderline hazardous. And it's a bit track limited due to battery thermals.

Don't get me wrong, the Model 3 is a fine car for what it is, but I don't see much overlap with the M2. I kinda assume you want an M2 for one or more of: luxury, ICE motor, 6MT, RWD, track-worthyness, cornering at limits. Model 3 isn't focused on any of those things.

The Model 3 and M2 just seem to be aiming for very different things, so I don't know why you'd cross shop them. For example, if you really care about 0-60 time, the Tesla 3 is awesome, but you wouldn't want the M2 anyway. There are better ICE cars for that.

[PaleGreen]

Originally Posted by Squidget

The Model 3 and M2 just seem to be aiming for very different things, so I don't know why you'd cross shop them.

I want something compact and tossable, with satisfying power. A fun, upscale daily driver that will never see the track.

Tesla Model 3P stacks up well for me. I'm only interested in an automatic. I live in the northeast, so AWD is a plus. More appealing color palette. Almost zero maintenance. Readily available. Handling felt pretty nice to me, and the smooth, brutal power is addictive.

Audi RS3 also makes my list, with its own pros and cons.

[JCZ5]

On my comparison list

1. 718 GTS 4.0
2. Mustang Dark Horse
3. F87 M2CS
4. Z4 M40i manual - 2024 announcement

The 718 GTS, what else can you say, it is the essence of pure driver’s car…

The mustang was a bit of a surprise, but N/A V8 with the Tremec 6-speed is a magical combo. And price is $70K, right around the $75K M2 price point

The M2CS is just wonderful and the last design that harkens back to the old analog BMW design and UI. Previously owned the M2C and have missed it dearly so this is nostalgia on high.

Lastly, with impending news of the last Z4 with manual, that should be interesting. Especially if BMW decides to use the same manual as in the Supra. Although not a M car, it is a great package.

[ModernAngel]

Originally Posted by Squidget

Agree, the ITS is a car to watch. Not in the M2's league or price bracket, assuming it costs around $50K. I'm not sure it has enough separation from the Civic R, would have to sit in it first.

Agree it is likely to have better steering feel than the m240, and of course the m240 doesn't even offer a manual, so there's that.

Agreed. Currently have a Ford Maverick as a daily and a G29 Z4 M40i as a “fun” car. Seriously considering getting a new M2 to replace the Z4 but now the ITS is looking very tempting. Dig the look and love Honda manual transmissions. Seems silly to get a sedan as a “fun” car but whatever.

For me it’s M2, ITS or a new S650 Mustang GT… or just get a manual Z4 if/when those come out.