[AndrejMi]

Yeah I am indecisive! I have a order for a G87 but I drove my friends E90 M3 and man that S65 is mind boggling. Im between canceling my order and going E92 but I really like the G87. My dream was always a E92 M3 since about 7-8 years ago when they were still almost new. What does bimmer post think. the car would primarily be a daily which the S65 isn't good at. I just can't decide but ill have to make my final decision within 2 or 3 months probably!!

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by AndrejMi

Yeah I am indecisive! I have a order for a G87 but I drove my friends E90 M3 and man that S65 is mind boggling. Im between canceling my order and going E92 but I really like the G87. My dream was always a E92 M3 since about 7-8 years ago when they were still almost new. What does bimmer post think. the car would primarily be a daily which the S65 isn't good at. I just can't decide but ill have to make my final decision within 2 or 3 months probably!!

Are you willing to invest $20,000+ maintaining an E9x? They're great cars, with a really unique engine - but they're mildly unreliable and the engine requires a lot of upkeep. That's not even accounting for the crazy prices on unmolested, low mileage (<50k mi) models.

[Humdizzle]

Tough call. I struggled with the same thing except it was between the e92 and f87 comp.

In the end i didn't feel like e92 prices were worth it. You're going to be paying at least 60k for a comp car under 40k miles. If you want a limerock or individual with a manual thats going to be in the $70k+ range probably.

https://bringatrailer.com/bmw/e90-e9...sort=timestamp

The newer M cars literally do everything better aside from sounding as good.

[ronin13013]

I just got my car but I can already tell stock to stock the g87 is faster.
The throw is a little shorter too. Clutch feels about the same. The e92 is elegant but very tame next to this car.

Originally Posted by AndrejMi

Yeah I am indecisive! I have a order for a G87 but I drove my friends E90 M3 and man that S65 is mind boggling. Im between canceling my order and going E92 but I really like the G87. My dream was always a E92 M3 since about 7-8 years ago when they were still almost new. What does bimmer post think. the car would primarily be a daily which the S65 isn't good at. I just can't decide but ill have to make my final decision within 2 or 3 months probably!!

[npirnia]

I haven’t driven the E92 M3, but one of my best friends has owned an E60 M5 for the past decade and its engine is very similar. I can also say a bit about the ownership experience since he has kept me in the loop about a lot of the work it has needed.

To avoid TL;DR - it really comes down to use case. If you are buying a car for daily driving or routine use then you should pick the G87 and that is an easy decision IMHO.

If you want a car for occasional/weekend use (like 50 miles or less per week average), then the E92 is a really great choice since engines like the S65 (and S62) just aren’t available anymore (except for crazy stuff like Gordon Murray’s new cars).

My friend bought his lightly used manual E60 M5 in 2013 as a daily driver from CarMax. It had something like 30k miles and he bought it for $30k. The car quickly managed to steal his heart with its awesome driving dynamics and highly visceral engine. The M5 has now become his “forever car” despite him owning a lot of awesome stuff over the years: 2009 Z06, 2009 997.2 Carrera S, 1999 Lamborghini Diablo VT coupe RWD conv (basically an SV), BMW M roadster with the S54, 2017 991.2 manual Carrera, several Range Rovers, and I’m surely forgetting some things.

But the M5 is the car he couldn’t part with, which says a lot! However, he stopped using it as a daily after 3ish years to extend the life of the car since it requires quite a bit of maintenance. The 991.2 was supposed to be his daily, but he put almost as many miles on the M5 since he simply loves driving it.

The car now has about 100k miles on it and he recently rebuilt the engine (at least the top end) to keep it running well at the top of the tach where he derives his joy. The VANOS system needs to be in good shape for high rpm operations and much of it required replacement/rebuild. This rebuild cost something like $20k and was just routine maintenance! Not associated with any failures. He has probably put a total of $30-40k into it over the past 10 years, but he regards it as worth it.

These are awesome cars that offer a now unique driving experience, but it comes with significant cost as these cars age. If you decide to get one, be prepared to spend keeping it in good condition since they have high stress engines and lots of aging technology. In some ways, I think they are now too special to daily anyway.

Also, my friend is now looking at a new G87 as a daily to share the garage with the M5. He is going to check out mine when it arrives and decide.

I hope this info helps.

Best,

Nick

[ronin13013]

The induction noise on my s65 was mesmerizing. I've never had a turbo car until this g87. Hearing the s58 spool up is scary. I immediately take my foot off the gas. I haven't even gone above 5000rpm yet...

[M2PDX]

If you're going for a manual transmission, I'd say the choice is easy. G87.

The G87 has more torque: 406 (as advertised, but more according to iND's dyno) versus 289.

I have driven several e90/2 era M3s with a manual and I've never felt that that worked with the low torque engine. In fact, that's why it's the only M generation I haven't ever purchased. (I went for an e92 335 iS instead).

Plus, the G87 offers adaptive suspension, track specs, multiple modes, adjustible MDM, etc. Faster and more powerful. Watch the PhD DESIGNS track video if you have any question.

[ronin13013]

I had to learn how to drive the e92 m3 fast. The G87 is just fast. No effort necessary.

[AndrejMi]

Thanks for the help guys! I went into my local dealer and sat in a HEA car for 10 minutes, set my seat to my liking, the wheel and asked myself do I see myself driving this. The answer was a immediate yes. I talked to the salesman and he basically said exactly what you guys just said. I think ill stay G87 since it will be the daily. I can't wait till my car arrives! salesman said possibly September!! Although if I ever have the itch to drive a E90 M3 with a fat supercharger my friend is only 30 minutes away!

[akhbhaat]

I have a serious obsession with 2000s German cars and currently own several of them. Some of this is driven by nostalgia, as I got my driving license in 2002 and then proceeded to lust after both whatever was somewhat attainable at the time (higher trim 3ers including the M3) and whatever wasn't (Porsche) for the next several years. But really, most of it is driven by the fact that they really do have far more character than anything produced today: those were the last cars to be free of EPS, iPads on the dash, lane keeping/active cruise control/parking nannies, auto-blip (for MT), or any drive mode bullshit. For the most part, it's just you and the machine.

That said, while I strongly prefer them to today's cars on back roads and the track, I wouldn't use any of them as daily drivers. They were mildly temperamental when new and they're only gotten more so as they've aged. People aren't kidding you: that engine takes money and patience to run. As weekend cars they will have fewer problems over a given stretch of time, and if they do end up in the shop, it's not a big deal since you aren't depending upon it to go about your life. But as a daily driver, what would otherwise be a nuisance can be a showstopper.

So, start with the G87--a safe choice that will do most things well--and branch out as you have opportunities to build a small collection and hone in on what it is you really want from a car.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

Are you willing to invest $20,000+ maintaining an E9x? They're great cars, with a really unique engine - but they're mildly unreliable and the engine requires a lot of upkeep. That's not even accounting for the crazy prices on unmolested, low mileage (<50k mi) models.

I've had my 2011 E90 M3 6MT for 11 years now and am at 41k miles. This has been one of the most reliable cars I've ever owned (so far). Zero claims under its factory warranty, and since that expired I had one part fail (electric valve in PVC hose) that was cheap and easy to replace. Other than that, it's just been my obsessive maintenance plus a new battery at year 7. If I was going to spend $20k+ on it, I'd be having Peter Partee racing building me a stroker S65! I do have planned for rod bearing replacement at 60k miles using BE bearings/ARP bolts, less than $3k parts/labor, although the number of high mileage S65s replacing the updated (mid 2010 production and onward) bearings that have come out looking decent in the past few years makes me ponder that mileage. In any event, it gets driven about 2k miles/year, so that's 10+ years away if I still have the car!

Our F87 M2C we bought new in Sept 2018 and is at 17k miles now has also been completely trouble free now for 4.5 years too. I love that car and just wish it (and G87) had a four door platform option (heck, 5 door would be my choice if they made it!).

As for OP's daily use, I'd say G87 for sure though for so many reasons not the least of which is that it's a new car as opposed to a 10+ year old one. The range of condition/upkeep/treatment of a random used 12 year old M3 is wide, and very few have been meticulously treated since new, carefully warmed up fully before serious use, never in rain, garaged 24/7, never started below 50F, etc. The other reason is the S65 is a very inefficient engine operating in daily driver conditions (rev range) hence poor mileage, and while it sounds amazing it's just not that entertaining in the 2500-4000 rpm range in daily driving (primarily since it's so wild over 5500).

The flip side is when you wring the S65 out and keep it boiling between 6000-8300 rpms, it's a crazy wild beast of an engine, and the sound is fantastic. The throttle response/control is unreal (eight individual throttle plates with a tiny volume of air between each and their intake valve), and managing the car approaching/at/over the limits of adhesion (on track or autocross) is enhanced by the very fine throttle control -- it's like a rheostat directly connected to your right foot controlling f/r weight transfer and rear tire slip angle. The S55/S58 is a completely different experience, but for turbocharged engines, their throttle response is better than most others.

Anyway, go for the G87!

[akkando]

Originally Posted by AndrejMi

Yeah I am indecisive! I have a order for a G87 but I drove my friends E90 M3 and man that S65 is mind boggling. Im between canceling my order and going E92 but I really like the G87. My dream was always a E92 M3 since about 7-8 years ago when they were still almost new. What does bimmer post think. the car would primarily be a daily which the S65 isn't good at. I just can't decide but ill have to make my final decision within 2 or 3 months probably!!

I switch between my f87 m2 and e90 m3 for daily. The only downside to the e90 m3 for a daily relative to my f87 is gas mileage, time for oil to warm up, and it doesn't come with backup camera or apple car play. I added a backup camera and apple car play to it so now it's pretty much down to gas mileage and waiting longer to get deep into the rpm. I suppose maintenance is worse in theory, certainty worse than a car under warranty. Some people say it's a worse daily because it doesn't have as much torque. If you can't figure out how to merge into traffic or pass a car with 414hp and 295tq I don't know what to tell you.

[trey100]

I love the E9x but to me cars are for driving and as the idea of buying something and leaving it parked in the garage as is the theme in this thread is foreign to me. Life is too short. G87 and enjoy it.

[mzcp]

I don't think I saw anybody mention the steering feel on E9X. It was one the best ever for me. My E90 M3 was the only M car I regret selling. Two different cars for sure. G87 will be the better DD

[ronin13013]

Hydraulic steering.

Originally Posted by mzcp

I don't think I saw anybody mention the steering feel on E9X. It was one the best ever for me. My E90 M3 was the only M car I regret selling. Two different cars for sure. G87 will be the better DD

[Humdizzle]

e9x had excellent steering

but the issue was the hydraulic system overheated / boiled over with tracking

[LegendVer2]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

I had to learn how to drive the e92 m3 fast. The G87 is just fast. No effort necessary.

To some G87 haters here, that's a negative 🤣

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

Hydraulic steering.

RIP, you are missed.

[rotomoto712]

I'll chime in here. I was number 2 at my dealership for a G87 6MT allocation, and when I went back to the states and drove my old E93 M3 6MT for a week, I fell in love again. The engine note, steering feel, driving position, I found (for me) to be superior to my wife's G42 M240i X-Drive. The mid range punch in comparison to the B58 engine was severely lacking, so I fixed that with a Harrop Supercharger. For modern conveniences, I fixed the Android Auto problem with a Dynavin unit so I'm not even missing out there. I replaced the usual suspects TAs, Rod-Bearings, Fuel sensor etc. When I got back I cancelled my G87 allocation and now daily the M3. No regrets here. Sure, maintenance will cost more for the E93 M3 in the short term, but with the EV onslaught imminent, I rather enjoy the old "analog" cars for as long as I still can.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by mzcp

I don't think I saw anybody mention the steering feel on E9X. It was one the best ever for me. My E90 M3 was the only M car I regret selling. Two different cars for sure. G87 will be the better DD

Definitely the first thing I notice when I drive the E90 M3 after driving the M2C. Heck even my E91 has a nicely weighted steering with lots of communication. That said, from my experience on track and a number of hours on the wet 1/2 mile skidpad with the M2C, if you recalibrate your brain a bit, you can feel "some" feedback approaching/at/over the limit of adhesion up front with the EPS. It's feedback that is there but in weaker form compared to a nice HPS rack like in the E90 M3.

Back-to-back driving the two cars will have the vast majority saying "BMW EPS is numb, no feel". I took a different tack with the M2C on the skidpad and asked myself to hunt for and learn what incipient limit feedback was present, how it felt, and how I could adapt to it. BMW revised programming for the M2C/CS (they use the same coding) compared to the OG, and it was improved somewhat.

[jhall1957]

I own both a E90 Manual, 5 door, slick top and a new G87 and I planned to daily the E90 but now with G87 that plan has changed. The E90 will likely be sold and the G87 will be daily and sit in garage next to a couple E30’s and E36's. The comfort, power and modern conviences of the G87 win in my book.

[CSBM5]

Originally Posted by ronin13013

I had to learn how to drive the e92 m3 fast. The G87 is just fast. No effort necessary.

The one thing I'm super intrigued by with the G87 is the ability to vary the amount of rear wheel longitudinal slip of pure traction control when you have DSC off. I think I would spend a good bit of time on track with it fully off first, learning the car slowly, and then experiment with settings in the 2-3 range from what I've seen so far. It really appeals to my inner (old) engineer nerd part.