[ourlee]

Hello,
Tomorrow I may order my car and before I do I want to chat with the SM about some mods. I come from VW and Audi so I know their drill but this is my first BMW, so in your experience, will I have warranty problems with:
No tune, no down pipe, no cat deletes
add Aftermarket mid pipe resonator delete
add Aftermarket exhaust reusing bmw valves
add Aftermarket lowering springs, keeping the BMW active shocks
add spacers to stock wheels until titan7s
Thanks for your pro tips
Rick

[RockCrusher]

You can ask the SM about mods you have in mind. Be aware what he says means nothing. Rather it is what the factory spells out in the warranty booklet what is covered what is not covered.

I do not have a warranty booklet with my M2. Just searched and found a PDF online.

Here is the link I used:

https://www.bmwusa.com/explore/bmw-v...nty-books.html

A paste from the document:

WHAT IS NOT COVERED
The car or any part of the car, unless the failure causes the car to fail to conform to the applicable emission regulations.

Malfunctions, including consequential, caused by negligence, misuse/improper operation of the vehicle, environmental influ- ences, flood, accident or fire damage.

Malfunctions, including consequential, caused by improper adjustment/repair, modification, alteration, tampering, discon- nection, improper or inadequate maintenance except if one or more of these occurred as a result of repair work that was performed by an authorized BMW center under warranty.

For gasoline engines malfunctions caused by the use of leaded fuel or fuels containing more than 25% ethanol, or other oxygenates with more than 2.8% oxygen by weight (i.e., more than 15% MTBE or more than 3% methanol plus an equivalent amount of co-solvent and/or as specified in the Owner’s Manual).
Spark plugs, filters, and similar maintenance items are not covered under this warranty at or beyond the first replacement interval, or if the part has been replaced earlier for reasons other than it being defective.

Any car on which the odometer has been replaced or altered and the true mileage cannot be determined.

Any car on which the Vehicle Identification Number (VIN) is altered and/or cannot be determined.

[ourlee]

Thx

[mike@x-ph.com]

Your warranty won't be impacted unless an aftermarket part causes damage; in such a case, the dealership may decline to perform the repair at no cost. Apart from that, you shouldn't encounter any warranty issues.

I always have complete builds on my leased cars and have never experienced any problems.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

Your warranty won't be impacted unless an aftermarket part causes damage; in such a case, the dealership may decline to perform the repair at no cost. Apart from that, you shouldn't encounter any warranty issues.

I always have complete builds on my leased cars and have never experienced any problems.

Take your tuned car into the dealership for an oil change/service/repair unrelated to modification...let me know how that goes for you. Oh, and I dont mean "I know a guy there who wont hook the car up to the computer, so nobody will know blah blah blah..."

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Take your tuned car into the dealership for an oil change/service/repair unrelated to modification...let me know how that goes for you. Oh, and I dont mean "I know a guy there who wont hook the car up to the computer, so nobody will know blah blah blah..."

i have been doing so for over 10 years, its always worked without any issues. So has hundreds of thousands of users on this forum. If this was a problem you'd have flagged cars threads filling the first page.

It's worth noting that the law protects consumers in this regard - dealerships are not permitted to deny warranty work if your aftermarket part did not cause the damage in question.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

i have been doing so for over 10 years, its always worked without any issues. So has hundreds of thousands of users on this forum. If this was a problem you'd have flagged cars threads filling the first page.

It's worth noting that the law protects consumers in this regard - dealerships are not permitted to deny warranty work if your aftermarket part did not cause the damage in question.

Well, its not a dealership's warranty, its a manufacturer's. Yes, I am aware of the Magnuson Moss Warranty Act.

Without naming names, I know of car owners in South Florida that have had their warranties voided due to ECU tunes (when dealers "plug the car in" and the info goes back to the manufacturer...). Just saying...

[ourlee]

Originally Posted by M_Power Rob

Take your tuned car into the dealership for an oil change/service/repair unrelated to modification...let me know how that goes for you. Oh, and I dont mean "I know a guy there who wont hook the car up to the computer, so nobody will know blah blah blah..."

I was clear on my TD1 knowledge.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

i have been doing so for over 10 years, its always worked without any issues. So has hundreds of thousands of users on this forum. If this was a problem you'd have flagged cars threads filling the first page.

It's worth noting that the law protects consumers in this regard - dealerships are not permitted to deny warranty work if your aftermarket part did not cause the damage in question.

The Moss/Mag act is there to protect the manufacturer as well as the customer.

The customer via the warranty manual can read and see what he needs to do and just as important avoid doing to keep the warranty intact.

The automaker can state no aftermarket performance parts allowed. This of course benefits the automaker. The automaker can't test every combination of exhaust, CAI, catch can, or other mods and who knows what level of "tune" is used so just stating no performance parts allowed suffices. And I note in the warranty manuals I have read any modification of the emissions systems voids the warranty (and besides violates federal emission laws).

One can mod to his heart's content. If the car manifests no problem that's great. If it does, then almost certainly the presence of the mod can invalidate the warranty. Sure there are exceptions involving mods that are *not* that closely associated with the system which manifested the problem.

You state in another post you have done complete builds on leased cars and with no problems. I find this hard to accept. Well, sure if you never had to take the car in for any engine or drive train problems. For services the service department will service the car and probably not note the presence of mods on the paperwork as long as they don't interfere with the servicing.

But how can the leased car with mods be returned even if it is not manifesting any problems?

Heck a leased car with worn out tires can have the lessee on the hook for putting this right.

[ourlee]

In my world, a down pipe will void the warranty. Does a down pipe void the BMW warranty?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

You state in another post you have done complete builds on leased cars and with no problems. I find this hard to accept.

But how can the leased car with mods be returned even if it is not manifesting any problems?

I understand your skepticism, and it's natural to have doubts when it comes to modifying leased vehicles. However, as I mentioned before, my personal experience with complete builds on leased cars has been positive, and I have documented my builds on the forums for transparency.

Setting my experience aside, this forum, with its 15-year history, serves as a massive pool of data on modified cars, including leased vehicles. There are hundreds of thousands of tuned cars with various modifications, ranging from simple stage 1 tunes to full builds. If warranty voids were a common issue due to modifications, you would expect to find numerous threads discussing such experiences. However, you will be hard-pressed to find more than a couple of such threads, indicating that warranty voids are relatively rare in this community.

It's essential to consider the data and experiences shared on this forum when forming an opinion on the matter. While you are entitled to your opinion, I encourage you to take some time and look through the available data before coming to a conclusion.

So again, show me the data of all these voided warranties, and let's have a real conversion. If after 15 years of BMW turbo cars and hundreds of thousands of tuned BMWs, you cannot find the data, you should probably revise your opinion.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by ourlee

In my world, a down pipe will void the warranty. Does a down pipe void the BMW warranty?

The downpipe is high flow, which reduces backpressure on the turbo. As a result, it's unlikely to cause any damage, and therefore should not void your warranty.

However, if you install the downpipe and add a tune that takes advantage of the reduced backpressure, leading to engine damage, that's a different situation. In this case, the added boost from the tune could be blamed for the damage.

That's why it's crucial to choose reputable brands and follow their recommended maps. Avoid going for more aggressive maps, and you'll be just fine, like many others who have been modifying their cars for the past 15 years.

[ourlee]

I’m learning I can add a dp without a tune which doesn’t work on VAGs. I have no interest in a tune but I have lots of experience with JB4. I’m sure geo smooth can add some low down torque.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by ourlee

I’m learning I can add a dp without a tune which doesn’t work on VAGs. I have no interest in a tune but I have lots of experience with JB4. I’m sure geo smooth can add some low down torque.

you can get the downpipe and your warranty is fine

[Rdurty2]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

you can get the downpipe and your warranty is fine

Will you guarantee that, and if you are wrong pay for the persons incurred costs?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by Rdurty2

Will you guarantee that, and if you are wrong pay for the persons incurred costs?

I provided my perspective based on the data I accessed, but I understand that others may have different views.

If you have a different opinion, let's engage in an intelligent conversation and discuss the data or experiences that have shaped your perspective. So, feel free to present your viewpoint and the information that supports it, and let's have a constructive and informative discussion.

Mine is very simple if mods were a danger on warranty, how did all these people avoid getting their warranty flagged for the last 15 years? We know hundreds of thousands are forum users, and even more are on Facebook and Instagram have modded cars.

This is the data I'm using for my opinion. Please tell me how I'm wrong and let's have an intelligent discussion.

at the end of the day, each person is responsible for their decision.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

I provided my perspective based on the data I accessed, but I understand that others may have different views.

If you have a different opinion, let's engage in an intelligent conversation and discuss the data or experiences that have shaped your perspective. So, feel free to present your viewpoint and the information that supports it, and let's have a constructive and informative discussion.

Mine is very simple if mods were a danger on warranty, how did all these people avoid getting their warranty flagged for the last 15 years? We know hundreds of thousands are forum users, and even more are on Facebook and Instagram have modded cars.

This is the data I'm using for my opinion. Please tell me how I'm wrong and let's have an intelligent discussion.

at the end of the day, each person is responsible for their decision.

While I don't disagree with you out of hand, you are presuming said individuals returned to the dealership for warranty work in every circumstance. Odds are exceedingly high they did not. In fact, unless something broke, they only returned for the schedule maintenance for 3yrs that likely included parts that had nothing to do with the mods: oils, filters, spark plugs, diff fluids, etc.

If you got a lowering kit, and nothing broke, what's to warranty?

The data that should be spoken to is, if someone had a problem AND hand a mod, AND returned to the dealership to have it fixed, what was the rate of return IF the part that broke was near relation to the part modified.

I think only then an honest discussion can be had on the topic. If someone had a busted blinker, and modified the intake, no one would care, right?

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by zero21

While I don't disagree with you out of hand, you are presuming said individuals returned to the dealership for warranty work in every circumstance. Odds are exceedingly high they did not. In fact, unless something broke, they only returned for the schedule maintenance for 3yrs that likely included parts that had nothing to do with the mods: oils, filters, spark plugs, diff fluids, etc.

If you got a lowering kit, and nothing broke, what's to warranty?

The data that should be spoken to is, if someone had a problem AND hand a mod, and returned to the dealership to have it fixed, what was the rate of return IF the part that broke was near relation to the part modified.

I think only then an honest discussion can be had on the topic.

We seem to be on the same page, To clarify:

If an aftermarket part fails or causes damage to the vehicle, the dealership has the right to refuse to repair it under warranty, which is by the law.

However, I am arguing against the notion that the mere presence of modifications on a vehicle leads to an automatic voiding of the warranty.

This notion is absolutely false, from my own experience and the hundreds of thousands of modded users.

[zero21]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

We seem to be on the same page, To clarify:

If an aftermarket part fails or causes damage to the vehicle, the dealership has the right to refuse to repair it under warranty, which is by the law.

However, I am arguing against the notion that the mere presence of modifications on a vehicle leads to an automatic voiding of the warranty.

This notion is absolutely false, from my own experience and the hundreds of thousands of modded users.

Gotcha. And I'm certain no one has an amount of valid data on this point en mass to provide a reasonable argument.

[JustinHEMI]

This really has nothing to do with BMW dealers and warranties, but just a funny anecdote regarding dealers and warranties.

In the early 2000s, I was into Jeeps, and I managed to snap the rear axle of my 2000 TJ while offroading.





I managed to limp out by creatively strapping the axle back in (Jeeps back then had a shit C clamp design that would cause the axle to fall out vice be retained when broken) and I dropped it off at the dealer just like that.



They called a few days later and said it was done under warranty.


The same Jeep was dropped off later due to being submerged in mud up to the doors which worked its way into the transmission. Tech said when he opened it, it had a lot of dirty water and such in it. Again, fixed under warranty.

When buying this Jeep, I spoke to the service people about what they would and wouldn't cover under warranty and the manager said "It's made to go offroad, so if it breaks offroad, I'll cover it." He followed through on that even though the Jeep was lifted with bigger tires.



Point is, talk to your service folks too. Sometimes they understand what we do and may work with you.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by mike@x-ph.com

I understand your skepticism, and it's natural to have doubts when it comes to modifying leased vehicles. However, as I mentioned before, my personal experience with complete builds on leased cars has been positive, and I have documented my builds on the forums for transparency.

Setting my experience aside, this forum, with its 15-year history, serves as a massive pool of data on modified cars, including leased vehicles. There are hundreds of thousands of tuned cars with various modifications, ranging from simple stage 1 tunes to full builds. If warranty voids were a common issue due to modifications, you would expect to find numerous threads discussing such experiences. However, you will be hard-pressed to find more than a couple of such threads, indicating that warranty voids are relatively rare in this community.

It's essential to consider the data and experiences shared on this forum when forming an opinion on the matter. While you are entitled to your opinion, I encourage you to take some time and look through the available data before coming to a conclusion.

So again, show me the data of all these voided warranties, and let's have a real conversion. If after 15 years of BMW turbo cars and hundreds of thousands of tuned BMWs, you cannot find the data, you should probably revise your opinion.

Your experience is nice but apparently not everyone has the same experience.

"BMW has and is increasing crack downs on anything aftermarket these days and also warranty claims. They routinely will pop in on dealerships as well as monitor claims. Dealers can face fines etc.. for breaking BMWNA rules. In return BMW is trying to offer more and more "performance type options" to customers if they wish to modify their cars."

This from a member who also is a vendor and has 20K+ posts.

A search of BMW denies warranty claim turns up all sorts of hits from lack of proper service records to speaker mods to engine/drive train mods to tracking.

My advice to any owner of a new or used vehicle with a warranty and who wants to mod the vehicle due so with the understanding if (and this is key) a problem develops the dealer/factory may not honor a warranty claim.

Yeah, on other forums I've read posts by a few owners who claim to have problem after problem with a mod'd car and the dealer just fixes it with no questions asked. That's great. But it is like the 96 year old who has smoked all his life and brags it hasn't killed him. That's good news but I'm not going to take up smoking assuming I'll have the same luck as he has had.

[mike@x-ph.com]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Yeah, on other forums I've read posts by a few owners who claim to have problem after problem with a mod'd car and the dealer just fixes it with no questions asked. That's great. But it is like the 96 year old who has smoked all his life and brags it hasn't killed him. That's good news but I'm not going to take up smoking assuming I'll have the same luck as he has had.

You've just helped illustrate my point; thank you.

If I've smoked all my life and I'm fine, but data from hundreds of thousands of users show that smoking increases death rates, the results are clear: smoking leads to a higher death rate.

However, if I claim that marijuana leads to overdose and death, but the data shows that out of hundreds of thousands of marijuana users, there are no overdose cases. You can make all the claims you want, but the data is clear.

It all comes down to the data. It's not about theories, feelings, or intricate discussions on BMW's mysterious software that we've been hearing about since 2007. The data provides the most reliable information for drawing conclusions and making decisions.

Please note: I have never tried marijuana; this is just an example to prove my point, similar to the smoking example.

It's evident that no matter what, you're not changing your opinion, so I'm going to let it go, we'll agree to disagree.

We both made our points clearly, and the readers can decide for themselves which argument makes more sense.