2013 335i MHD data

Wolfram23 · 05-10-2023, 11:04 AM

I have a 2013 335i Xdrive M-Sport 6MT at 319,000 km, recently installed MHD. I have a downpipe and charge pipe as supporting mods.

I went straight to Stage 2 and while it felt great, I found my data logs were weird. Power target, MAF target, Boost target - wasn't reaching any of them. A little timing was pulled but not too bad. This log is one of the worse ones:

https://datazap.me/u/wolfram86/2013-...43-44-45-50-61

After a lot of thinking and researching, I think I found the issue - boost solenoid and/or vacuum leak. The WGDC% doesn't seem capable of going above ~68% in any log, even though the target is up to 99%. Max boost seems to be around 14-15 psi.

What I find interesting is I installed Stage 1 map and the data log is beautiful - but the WGDC target doesn't exceed ~70%, so it holds boost (but it looks choppy compared to Stage 2 log above, where boost gets "wavy" from the WGDC fluctuation). The engine stays close to the load target as well.

https://datazap.me/u/wolfram86/stage...42-43-44-45-61

I'll update after I install a new boost solenoid and vac tube this weekend. I have a vac pump for brake bleeding so I can try to hold vac on the wastegate actuator - let's hope it is fine.

I'm curious if anyone sees anything else from the data logs that might be wrong?

n55david · 05-10-2023, 11:50 AM

Based on your wgdc I see you have a pwg car.

A few things

1. The pwg turbo is garbage and dies at 5500rpm. It's small and fairly inefficient.

B. You need to do a log in 3rd or 4th from about 2k to about 6500 or so so we can take a look. Hold the dsc button till all of the traction control stuff turns off.

C. You need an Intercooler bad. I normally do not suggest you run even the stage 1 maps without one.

Relog and post it and let's take a look and so if you have a boost leak etc.

thejeremyman9 · 05-10-2023, 12:03 PM

+1 to everything above.

I also vaguely recall some wavy behavior on PWG stage 2 maps but it has been a while. Also, the WGDC target and MAF target arent really relevant parameters, especially on PWG.

Wolfram23 · 05-10-2023, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n55david

Based on your wgdc I see you have a pwg car.

A few things

1. The pwg turbo is garbage and dies at 5500rpm. It's small and fairly inefficient.

B. You need to do a log in 3rd or 4th from about 2k to about 6500 or so so we can take a look. Hold the dsc button till all of the traction control stuff turns off.

C. You need an Intercooler bad. I normally do not suggest you run even the stage 1 maps without one.

Relog and post it and let's take a look and so if you have a boost leak etc.

Here's a stage 2 log that meets your requirement.
https://datazap.me/u/wolfram86/log-1...37-38-39-40-54

SuperLomi · 05-10-2023, 03:46 PM

That looks pretty normal to me, and comparable to log's I've done on MHD stage 2+.

You're IAT's are really high at the end, I would definitely get a better IC. For reference my IAT's stay around 30C, and will cool slightly over the course of a pull (this was with maybe 21C ambient). For comparison your IAT started at 45C and ended at 60C. I am using the VRSF Competiton IC, but you'll see a lot of people recommend just getting a race IC. frontal area is going to be more important for cooling, and any extra volume wont make a significant difference in performance between the two.

The only other thing to check would be to do a smoke test on the intake system and make sure everything is sealed. You can try to do it with compressed air also, but it's much harder to ID and track down leaks, especially small ones.

The PWG compressor is unfortunately undersized for the application, and may just not be up to hitting full targets for stage 2

thejeremyman9 · 05-10-2023, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfram23

Here's a stage 2 log that meets your requirement.
https://datazap.me/u/wolfram86/log-1...37-38-39-40-54

Yeah that looks pretty reasonable. 2psi is about the upper limit of what i could consider normal boost deviation.

Wolfram23 · 05-10-2023, 05:02 PM

Thanks guys. I have a VSFR intercooler at home actually so hoping to have that going this weekend.

I guess I'm confused on how the MHD tune works. I thought wgdc hits 100% at WOT to build boost quickly, and I still think it looks like it drops in % when the demand stays higher and leads me to the solenoid issue. On pulls where it is wavy, it is noticeable in the seat like the car is lightly surging. I've previously thought it might be related to the xdrive transfer case but after that failed and was replaced, easy to rule out.

Regardless, I have a new solenoid on the way and they appear to be a common source of failure on these engines. If it fixes it, great.

thejeremyman9 · 05-10-2023, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolfram23

Thanks guys. I have a VSFR intercooler at home actually so hoping to have that going this weekend.

I guess I'm confused on how the MHD tune works. I thought wgdc hits 100% at WOT to build boost quickly, and I still think it looks like it drops in % when the demand stays higher and leads me to the solenoid issue. On pulls where it is wavy, it is noticeable in the seat like the car is lightly surging. I've previously thought it might be related to the xdrive transfer case but after that failed and was replaced, easy to rule out.

Regardless, I have a new solenoid on the way and they appear to be a common source of failure on these engines. If it fixes it, great.

WGDC cant really be interpreted on a 0-100% scale for PWG. It is very much like that and as you described for EWG. However WGDC more or less "caps out" and 60-70s% for PWGs. Its just how it is.

The wavy thing i definitely remember seeing in the past. I thought it was BM3 tunes but it could just be a PWG thing. Let us know what happens with the solenoid. Once you have the IC you can also try stage 2+ and see if the map behaves any differently.

Wolfram23 · 05-16-2023, 11:33 AM

Replaced the solenoid and there is a noticeable difference, just on Stage 1 still. Didn't manage to install the new intercooler yet, after I do I'll try Stage 2/2+.

https://datazap.me/u/wolfram86/log-1...41-42-43-44-45

Biggest thing is before, wgdc% would spike up and down or seem to fall when trying to hold, now it is pretty smooth and only drops when requested. I noticed 2 things in the install - the solenoid oring was half gone, and the actuator vac line had a small crack in the tip. I didn't replace the line (yet) but I cut the crack off, and I also vac tested with my tiny vac pump (for brake lines) and it held steady so I'm pretty confident the actuator diaphragm is fine.

05-10-2023, 11:04 AM	#1
Wolfram23 New Member 0 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 335i xdrive m-sport 6mt 2013 Join Date: May 2022 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	2013 335i MHD data - Stage 2 under boost/load I have a 2013 335i Xdrive M-Sport 6MT at 319,000 km, recently installed MHD. I have a downpipe and charge pipe as supporting mods. I went straight to Stage 2 and while it felt great, I found my data logs were weird. Power target, MAF target, Boost target - wasn't reaching any of them. A little timing was pulled but not too bad. This log is one of the worse ones: https://datazap.me/u/wolfram86/2013-...43-44-45-50-61 After a lot of thinking and researching, I think I found the issue - boost solenoid and/or vacuum leak. The WGDC% doesn't seem capable of going above ~68% in any log, even though the target is up to 99%. Max boost seems to be around 14-15 psi. What I find interesting is I installed Stage 1 map and the data log is beautiful - but the WGDC target doesn't exceed ~70%, so it holds boost (but it looks choppy compared to Stage 2 log above, where boost gets "wavy" from the WGDC fluctuation). The engine stays close to the load target as well. https://datazap.me/u/wolfram86/stage...42-43-44-45-61 I'll update after I install a new boost solenoid and vac tube this weekend. I have a vac pump for brake bleeding so I can try to hold vac on the wastegate actuator - let's hope it is fine. I'm curious if anyone sees anything else from the data logs that might be wrong?
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05-10-2023, 11:50 AM	#2
n55david Check out my Youtube @n55david! 1297 Rep 3,536 Posts Drives: 2017 m240i, 2015 X3 x35i Join Date: Aug 2018 Location: Michigan USA iTrader: (0) Garage List 2017 m240i xDrive [0.00] 2015 X3 x35i [0.00] 2015 335i xdrive [0.00]	Based on your wgdc I see you have a pwg car. A few things 1. The pwg turbo is garbage and dies at 5500rpm. It's small and fairly inefficient. B. You need to do a log in 3rd or 4th from about 2k to about 6500 or so so we can take a look. Hold the dsc button till all of the traction control stuff turns off. C. You need an Intercooler bad. I normally do not suggest you run even the stage 1 maps without one. Relog and post it and let's take a look and so if you have a boost leak etc. __________________ 2017 m240i xDrive 10.67@132.32mph w/bm3 2015 335i xDrive 10.95@124.99mph w/bm3 - SOLD 2015 X3 x35i pwg 12.96 catless w/bm3 stage 2 93 ots IG: @n55david For pics and updates! Youtube: @ n55david For videos or Racing etc
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05-10-2023, 12:03 PM	#3
thejeremyman9 Major General 4374 Rep 7,622 Posts Drives: 2015 BMW 335i Join Date: May 2019 Location: Cali iTrader: (0)	+1 to everything above. I also vaguely recall some wavy behavior on PWG stage 2 maps but it has been a while. Also, the WGDC target and MAF target arent really relevant parameters, especially on PWG.
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05-10-2023, 03:46 PM	#5
SuperLomi First Lieutenant 204 Rep 383 Posts Drives: 2013 335i M-Sport Join Date: Nov 2020 Location: KY iTrader: (0)	That looks pretty normal to me, and comparable to log's I've done on MHD stage 2+. You're IAT's are really high at the end, I would definitely get a better IC. For reference my IAT's stay around 30C, and will cool slightly over the course of a pull (this was with maybe 21C ambient). For comparison your IAT started at 45C and ended at 60C. I am using the VRSF Competiton IC, but you'll see a lot of people recommend just getting a race IC. frontal area is going to be more important for cooling, and any extra volume wont make a significant difference in performance between the two. The only other thing to check would be to do a smoke test on the intake system and make sure everything is sealed. You can try to do it with compressed air also, but it's much harder to ID and track down leaks, especially small ones. The PWG compressor is unfortunately undersized for the application, and may just not be up to hitting full targets for stage 2 Last edited by SuperLomi; 05-10-2023 at 03:53 PM..
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05-10-2023, 05:02 PM	#7
Wolfram23 New Member 0 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 335i xdrive m-sport 6mt 2013 Join Date: May 2022 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	Thanks guys. I have a VSFR intercooler at home actually so hoping to have that going this weekend. I guess I'm confused on how the MHD tune works. I thought wgdc hits 100% at WOT to build boost quickly, and I still think it looks like it drops in % when the demand stays higher and leads me to the solenoid issue. On pulls where it is wavy, it is noticeable in the seat like the car is lightly surging. I've previously thought it might be related to the xdrive transfer case but after that failed and was replaced, easy to rule out. Regardless, I have a new solenoid on the way and they appear to be a common source of failure on these engines. If it fixes it, great.
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05-16-2023, 11:33 AM	#9
Wolfram23 New Member 0 Rep 7 Posts Drives: 335i xdrive m-sport 6mt 2013 Join Date: May 2022 Location: Canada iTrader: (0)	Replaced the solenoid and there is a noticeable difference, just on Stage 1 still. Didn't manage to install the new intercooler yet, after I do I'll try Stage 2/2+. https://datazap.me/u/wolfram86/log-1...41-42-43-44-45 Biggest thing is before, wgdc% would spike up and down or seem to fall when trying to hold, now it is pretty smooth and only drops when requested. I noticed 2 things in the install - the solenoid oring was half gone, and the actuator vac line had a small crack in the tip. I didn't replace the line (yet) but I cut the crack off, and I also vac tested with my tiny vac pump (for brake lines) and it held steady so I'm pretty confident the actuator diaphragm is fine.
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