[Viggen47]

Would love to get anyone’s thoughts that has driven both the 6MT G87 and CT4-V BW. Due to where I live, 90% of my driving is under 50 mph, and everything I’ve seen and read is that the 6MT needs to be revved out to get into the real power, which isn’t going to be happening too often unfortunately. I have driven a G80 on the track and the S58 pulls significantly harder than the BW I test drove, but I worry I’m not going to have enough opportunities to really appreciate that due to where I live. The BW I drove was an auto but I’ve heard nothing but good things about the manual. Looks, resale, reliability, etc. aside, which is the more fun car to drive on the street?

[Viggen47]

What car is better for me is weighed across a number of things, one of which is driving dynamics and engagement with the 6MT. I haven’t had a chance to drive the manual in the G87 so I was curious to hear impressions from others that have driven both cars. Unfortunately, my dealer had presold the HEA car so I wasn’t able to demo it.

[FryCookOnVenus]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Sorry, are you trying to decide on which car is better for you based on what someone else has to say?

Why shouldn't we listen to the opinions of others, and filter them appropriately?

We do exactly that when choosing where to live, what movie to see and even who to ask out.

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by Viggen47

What car is better for me is weighed across a number of things, one of which is driving dynamics and engagement with the 6MT. I haven’t had a chance to drive the manual in the G87 so I was curious to hear impressions from others that have driven both cars. Unfortunately, my dealer had presold the HEA car so I wasn’t able to demo it.

Get a test of both. Then decide. Ive daily'd exotics with short commutes to work. Didnt care, I wanted to drive it. Nothing like taking it home after a days effort and spending extra time driving it. I dont listen to others about women or cars. Neither should you.

The world is a bunch of crutches currently. Amazed how many people cant make a decision alone. Hilarious lol.

[rangerfan94]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Sorry, are you trying to decide on which car is better for you based on what someone else has to say?

Ya, 'cause these cars are so easy to find on the ground, spec'd the way we want and always available to be test driven on our schedules close to home. Come on OP, what kind of a question is this?!

Sarcasm aside... what kind of response to OP is this? If you don't have an opinion to share, or any useful insight for that matter, why bother engaging? I just don't get this place sometimes. So much nonsense...

[ourlee]

Car forums and car reviews are great fun. If OP gets lucky, one of us here has experience with the caddy and can offer a real world take. And that’s AWESOME.

‘Be a man make your own decisions’ is a hilarious take, equaled only by the manual bros

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by ourlee

‘Be a man make your own decisions’ is a hilarious take

Why?

[Viggen47]

Originally Posted by DSTR

Get a test of both. Then decide. Ive daily'd exotics with short commutes to work. Didnt care, I wanted to drive it. Nothing like taking it home after a days effort and spending extra time driving it. I dont listen to others about women or cars. Neither should you.

The world is a bunch of crutches currently. Amazed how many people cant make a decision alone. Hilarious lol.

In a perfect world, yes, I would test drive the G87 and be able to form my own opinion. I have an allocation for an M2 and haven’t had any luck finding a demo car. So I can either pass on my allocation and wait until a demo car or used car is available to test, or I can get as much helpful information as I can and make a decision off of that.

[ourlee]

Originally Posted by m2ss

Why?

Cause info is power

[LCDRJohn]

My neighbor is a muscle car guy and he has had the last 2 generations of blackwings. He shows them off to us pretty regularly and seems to love them.

BUT, they have all the classic GM issues. They are well-built in some ways, but trash in others. And he has had his share of warranty work, mostly on ancillary systems, but still, they are expensive cars. I have had a few corvettes and understand what he went thru. These pinnacle GM products drive very well, but I would caution what happens if you keep them past 3 years. (the warranty)

[ourlee]

The c8 forum is littered with heartbreak

[npirnia]

I am cross-shopping these 2 cars, but my M2 is due to the dealer any day now - so I'll need to finalize my decision soon. I also have not been able to either see or drive any of these so I'm making my decision based on what I can read.

I think that the C&D long-term wrap up of a 6MT G80 M3 was very helpful to me: "We found ourselves wishing that the M3 had the BW steering, but wishing that the BW had the M3's engine."

The M2 and BW are very similar cars in terms of size, weight, power, hardware (e-diff, brake by wire, EPS, turbocharged 6, etc), and performance.

The real difference (based on my reading) is connectedness, which is a deliberate choice for both BMW and Cadillac. The BMW is going to be a bit more isolated in all inputs and outputs. Some read this as refinement while others think the car is disconnected. The Cadillac will have a stronger sense of connection through the steering and shifter than the M2. If this connectedness is priority #1, then the CT4-V Blackwing is probably the better choice.

The M2 will have the better engine - the S58 is one of the all time great performance power plants of the 21st century. It is very refined and very powerful. Interacting with my 340i's B58 using a manual gearbox has been very enjoyable over the past 7 years of daily commuting and this is the key feature that led me to order an M2 over a BW. To me, the engine transmission combo (as a known entity) is enough to offset the Cadillac's pros. Plus, I have a VERY connected and exciting car for weekend romps so refinement has more value for my daily driver. The BMW will be better built as well, I feel confident about that even though Cadillac does a pretty good job these days.

The BW has longer gears (1st and 2nd) than the M2 so I don't think either car has an advantage engine wise under 50 mph (likely slight advantage for the M2).

The last point for me was that I was simply more excited about the M2 than the BW. I like the idea of a coupe better now that my daughter is a teenager and the looks of the Cadillac just didn't excite me that much. In some ways, I made the decision to go with the M2 simply because I wasn't that interested in calling Cadillac dealers and never felt that motivated to seek the car out. Our emotions are very handy that way for making decisions. :P

I hope this is helpful and good luck with your decision.

-Nick

[npirnia]

Originally Posted by M2siast

Let me flip this around.

How many times have you seen someone post here that they were changing their order from manual to auto because they heard someone say the manual is worse?

One is too many… it’s a classic case of deciding on something because of someone else, and doesn’t show that you really know what you want. How can impressions of someone else attest to how you “feel”?

It’s like buying another car because they said the car is “ugly in person”. You haven’t seen it yet, so you decide not to risk it.

Feelings and emotions can’t be exemplified by someone else. What rocks my boat doesn’t rock yours. That’s why there are so many cars on the market and I cringe when I read the word “better” used for cars.

All true, but sometimes its nice to hear from others as well. The tough part is understanding how their interpretation will relate to your own interests.

There are a lot of concrete thinkers who regard things as "good", "bad", "best" and things are generally hopeless for these persons since they probably use others' preferences as a proxy for their own.

But the rest of us read between the lines - which we can't do without having some lines....

The whole BMW manual thing does rub me the wrong way though. The BMW shifter is all about control harmony with the rest of the car. At least on BMWs of the past 20 years (I've driven many of them), all their controls have a layer of "insulation" between the machine and the driver that is part of the car's character. The shifter matches this very nicely and a highly mechanical shifter would feel out of place imho. I notice this anytime I drive the Viper and then drive my 340i. In both cars, their controls work together and feel matched, but are totally different from their respective controls in the other car (steering, brakes, shifter - everything). Its a reflection of the car's personality.

But stuff like this is like "a horse to water" - people need to get it themselves and many won't.

-Nick

[Ravenseal]

I’ve driven both. The only thing I liked better about the CT4BW was the manual gearbox. It felt notchier. Maybe the steering feel is slightly better? Styling is subjective. In every other respect: The interior, the S58 engine, build quality, technology, and dealership experience - the M2 is ahead. The CT4BW is a 4-door, and what bothered me the most is how cramped the interior is for a “driver focused car”. As you can see, I ordered an M2, which should be here in a week. Happy to answer any other questions.

[Viggen47]

Originally Posted by Ravenseal

I’ve driven both. The only thing I liked better about the CT4BW was the manual gearbox. It felt notchier. Maybe the steering feel is slightly better? Styling is subjective. In every other respect: The interior, the S58 engine, build quality, technology, and dealership experience - the M2 is ahead. The CT4BW is a 4-door, and what bothered me the most is how cramped the interior is for a “driver focused car”. As you can see, I ordered an M2, which should be here in a week. Happy to answer any other questions.

Appreciate the feedback from you and others above. It sounds like the shifter is more mechanical in the BW, which is something that I appreciate coming from Japanese cars. Did the S58 in the M2 feel stronger at normal driving speeds or only when you really wound it up?

[Ravenseal]

Originally Posted by Viggen47

Appreciate the feedback from you and others above. It sounds like the shifter is more mechanical in the BW, which is something that I appreciate coming from Japanese cars. Did the S58 in the M2 feel stronger at normal driving speeds or only when you really wound it up?

Both cars have a similar 5-60 speed. I doubt you’ll notice a difference. The S58 is still a twin turbo engine, there’s plenty of torque down low.

[m2ss]

Originally Posted by ourlee

Cause info is power

Why?

[ourlee]

I’m old but I do remember sons 1 and 2 asking that a lot. I’m as stumped now as ever.

[KevinC]

Originally Posted by Viggen47

What car is better for me is weighed across a number of things, one of which is driving dynamics and engagement with the 6MT.

My 2c - if 90% of your driving is under 50 mph, and the car packs 450+ hp, who gives a flying farkle if it needs to be revved to get the max out of it? It's hardly gonna be inadequate at lower revs, especially given your use case. In that other 10% of your driving, you can rev the snot out of it and have a great time stretching its legs.

If you're a 6MT guy by nature, just get it.

[M_Power Rob]

Originally Posted by FryCookOnVenus

Why shouldn't we listen to the opinions of others, and filter them appropriately?

We do exactly that when choosing where to live, what movie to see and even who to ask out.

Unfortunately, many times that turns out bad.

Unless you personally know the person and how and why they comment on things, just how do you accurately filter the responses out for your own personal benefit?

[Viggen47]

Originally Posted by KevinC

My 2c - if 90% of your driving is under 50 mph, and the car packs 450+ hp, who gives a flying farkle if it needs to be revved to get the max out of it? It's hardly gonna be inadequate at lower revs, especially given your use case. In that other 10% of your driving, you can rev the snot out of it and have a great time stretching its legs.

If you're a 6MT guy by nature, just get it.

Ha - fair point. Since someone brought it up, and I think its a good stat in this case, I looked at the 5 - 60 time for the two cars w/ manuals. Car and Driver has 4.6S for the M2 and 5.3S for the BW.

[Squidget]

I've driven both with MT, went with the G87.

I broadly agree with Ravenseal. My assessment was something like:

* BW slightly better steering, suspension is excellent, bigger back seats.

* G87 better brakes, better weight transfer (both braking and lateral), better interior materials.

Shifter feel, the BW was definitely the more Japanese-style, notchier, but despite that I had MORE trouble doing precise shifts. I may simply be too acclimated to BMW shifters after 12+ years. So while ASTHETICALLY I preferred the BW shifter, my results were better with the BMW.

I dislike GM's infotainment system. I dislike how they do driver assistance alerting. Vibrating the seat pan is uncomfortable and should be banned. Feels intrusive, feels distracting.

IDrive8, and BMW's driver ergonomics, are IMO far far better.

I think the BW is a great car, it really is, and if I needed more rear seat space I'd select it over the G87 and not regret it too much.

In the end, I "zen" better with the G87, I just drive without thinking about it. My thoughts more naturally turn into action. I think it, the car does it. I couldn't get to that place with the BW.

Edit: to put the above in context: I personally, prefer carving corners rather than doing drag races. I'm picky about weight balance, cornering, body roll, not pure HP or 0-60 times. I value precision and predictability in corners.