[Mani59]

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Car Magazine see which makes the best performance car; the M2 or Porsche 718 Cayman GTS.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Wish the M engineers could somehow improve the steering rack on the M2 & dial in to close the gap on the Porsche (in that regard). Everything else I can live with & I like to have both hands on the wheel when I'm tracking my cars & doing triple digit speeds. So the 6speed auto doesn't concern me there.

[Squidget]

I'm confused, is the 718 Cayman GTS the same price as an M2 in the UK?

They are WAAAY far apart in price in the US, more than 30 grand, how is this a sane cross-shop?

[VIERsr]

£8500/$11000 difference (before discount), if you don't need 4 seats you should seriously consider the Cayman.

[Lex Templar]

In Australia, you can just about have 2 x G87s for the price of 1 Cayman GTS 4.0.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I'm confused, is the 718 Cayman GTS the same price as an M2 in the UK?

They are WAAAY far apart in price in the US, more than 30 grand, how is this a sane cross-shop?

I’m thinking there are extra taxes on the M2 from Mexico to Europe unlike Porsche. And the Porsche probably didn’t have many options in it. From a performance perspective a GTS4.0 doesn’t really need any options.

[LCDRJohn]

God, things are weird in the UK!

Over there...An M2 is hyper-expensive and a GTS 4.0 that you can grab for 70,000 euros.

Bizarre.

In the states, you can't keep a GTS 4.0 away from 6 figures. My friend just got one delivered with almost no options and he was at $106,000. And he waited over a year to get it.

Either way, it's chalk and cheese. I loved my cayman, but it is not a practical animal that is a real daily.

[M Division]

Originally Posted by Lex Templar

In Australia, you can just about have 2 x G87s for the price of 1 Cayman GTS 4.0.

Yes or 3x fully loaded G87s for the price of a 992 911. Porsches are fantastic but they are hugely overpriced in Australia compared to international markets.

[Tag]

Originally Posted by Kevin_The_Clean1

Wish the M engineers could somehow improve the steering rack on the M2 & dial in to close the gap on the Porsche (in that regard). Everything else I can live with & I like to have both hands on the wheel when I'm tracking my cars & doing triple digit speeds. So the 6speed auto doesn't concern me there.

That's the one thing I miss the most about older BMWs, the steering feel of a hydraulic rack. I also miss a linear steering ratio instead of a variable one that they seem to be putting into everything now.

[aerobod]

The GTS 4.0 in Canada is over 50% more with just a few options (such as memory sports seats, as the standard ones are manual adjustment). CAD$85,500 (USD$64,000 / GBP£50,000) on the road price for our M2, CAD$130,000 (USD$98,000 / GBP£76,000) for a GTS even without some of the comparable features to the M2.

Not really competitors here on a price basis, but certainly not when you need the practicality of 4 seats and reasonable luggage capacity, as we do.

[npirnia]

A friend of a friend just bought a lightly used Cayman GTS 4.0 for ~$125K which is the best price he could find. A week later, it was rear ended in a parking lot and somehow totaled despite being drivable! The pictures looked like a regular fender-bender, but the cost of replacement parts plus dropping the engine and re-bonding the heat shielding of the engine bay (some special technique) managed to total the car.

I am still shocked that it happened and kind of can't believe it based on the low speed impact and appearance. The delicacy of that car would worry me as a daily.

But getting a replacement car has proven very difficult as well. Another used one is the only way to get one in the near-term (at least in California) and a used one is ~$115K-120K.

So a Cayman GTS 4.0 is nominally $50K-60K more than my M2. So the whole comparison is really quite flattering for the M2 since the car's "closest competitor" is a dedicated 2-seater that costs about twice as much. Sounds like the good old days of M to me.

-Nick

[thinking]

This is not the case here in Germany. Cayman GTS 4.0 is starting at €91K euros and a good spec'd G87 is ~€82K. Used Cayman GTS 4.0 with good specs is around €98K. I mean.... how are they comparable?

[sammyj]

Originally Posted by LCDRJohn

God, things are weird in the UK!

Over there...An M2 is hyper-expensive and a GTS 4.0 that you can grab for 70,000 euros.

Bizarre.

In the states, you can't keep a GTS 4.0 away from 6 figures. My friend just got one delivered with almost no options and he was at $106,000. And he waited over a year to get it.

Either way, it's chalk and cheese. I loved my cayman, but it is not a practical animal that is a real daily.

Totally agree, the 718, besides being at least $13k in price more expensive, is not a practical daily, whereas the M2 absolutely is.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by npirnia

So a Cayman GTS 4.0 is nominally $50K-60K more than my M2. So the whole comparison is really quite flattering for the M2 since the car's "closest competitor" is a dedicated 2-seater that costs about twice as much.

I think this also reflects on Audi and Merc just kinda giving up in this space. Audi just cannot solve the front end weight problem with the RSes (IMO), and I'm not sure they even want to. And I don't understand AMG's strategy at all.

Porsche has gone super boutique, so they aren't in the same segment anymore.

As a result, you get a bunch of awkward comparisons that don't really make a lot of sense. BMW's M cars most direct competition right now is... previous gen M cars.

[Sherlock997]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I think this also reflects on Audi and Merc just kinda giving up in this space. Audi just cannot solve the front end weight problem with the RSes (IMO), and I'm not sure they even want to. And I don't understand AMG's strategy at all.

Porsche has gone super boutique, so they aren't in the same segment anymore.

As a result, you get a bunch of awkward comparisons that don't really make a lot of sense. BMW's M cars most direct competition right now is... previous gen M cars.

100% this. BMW will be the only one in this segment in a few years once everyone starts pushing EV/hybrid tech. Mercedes jumped the gun with the new C63 and BMW is taking the right approach by developing EV tech alongside their gas vehicles rather than replacing them entirely.

[ourlee]

I build 20 718s a day, the 4.0 is a full 30k more before any options
https://configurator.porsche.com/en-...reen=1024x1366
Here it is with auto, lights Bose and GTS interior
https://configurator.porsche.com/en-...LM.XLW.XXP.Z1S
In what world am I cross shopping these cars?
Here is my super base 4 cylinder build
PDK, diff, suspension, sports chrono, paint, Bose GT wheel and headrest emblems. Still stupid at 82 with BASE WHEELS
https://configurator.porsche.com/en-...I2.UX6.XSC.Z1S

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by ourlee

In what world am I cross shopping these cars?

Apparently, the world of post-brexit UK.

[ourlee]

Lol. I’m driving this Wednesday
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=350746041

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by ourlee

Lol. I’m driving this Wednesday
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/invent...ting=350746041

Gentian? Nice, always love a deep blue.

[npirnia]

Originally Posted by Squidget

As a result, you get a bunch of awkward comparisons that don't really make a lot of sense. BMW's M cars most direct competition right now is... previous gen M cars.

Totally, it reminds me of the late-90s as we finally emerged from the dark ages of the fuel crisis/emissions that killed off so many enthusiast cars. Variety really grew through the 2000s and now we seem to be on the other side of the bell curve where choices are fewer again.

I guess this is inevitable as the curtain comes down on ICE over the next 10 years or so. Though I doubt that either Europe or California will actually hit their target due to infrastructure limitations. I think it is likely that plug-in hybrids will outnumber pure EVs for a while to come - Toyota certainly seems convinced.

-Nick

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by npirnia

I think it is likely that plug-in hybrids will outnumber pure EVs for a while to come - Toyota certainly seems convinced.

The Japanese, collectively, are betting HARD on various hybrids, the West seems to be betting on full electric. I have no idea who wins.

I will say I found the new Highlander (gas-electric hybrid) to be a seriously impressive vehicle.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Originally Posted by Tag

That's the one thing I miss the most about older BMWs, the steering feel of a hydraulic rack. I also miss a linear steering ratio instead of a variable one that they seem to be putting into everything now.

Exactly. That's why the E90 M3 was one of the last great M car for numerous reasons. An intoxicating exhaust note, snappy DCT, & purely intuitive steering system that doesn't lack feel. I would gladly pay extra for a hydraulic rack on a G87 M2 since the engineers haven't found the secret sauce yet (that the Porsche engineers have somehow discovered).