[danallxt]

First of all let me say i am not at all disappointed in the M240x, this is not a dig on that car.
Why considering the Integra?
Well first of all the manual tranny, and not just any manual as Honda is know to have generally one of the best manual/clutches of any car manufacturer. Keep in mind my 240cx is the first automatic car i have owned in over 20 years, so yes i miss the driving engagement you get with a manual.

Steering and brake feel has been described as "Porsche tier". The lack of steering feel of the M240 has been well rehashed but mine also has that nervous on-center feel that others have complained about, I've gotten used to it (barely). Comments about the driving experience and turn-in, feel etc of the Integra seem to have been quite positive.
And then you have the substantial weight difference in the Integra's favor. The Integra pulls a bit over 1g of cornering, those wide sticky's help.
Styling, i really, really like the styling of the Integra S, those triple exhaust extensions are cool looking, I like the overall styling. The M240 gets a lot of compliments, but for me the styling is just ok. And then the Integra it has no sun-roof nor one optional so i don't have to worry about dealers loading in on to increase margins, actually very few options are available. The 4 doors are a plus for me. The exhaust note may be a bit more aggressive than M240 as this is a North American product (supposedly some other countries have a more restrictive decibel limit)?

What would i miss, well of course that wonderful in-line 6 of the BMW, and I'm pretty sure the interior of the Integra will not be up to the quality of the BMW. I have owned Honda cars (2) and bikes(3) in the past and have always been impressed with the overall quality of their products.

Anyway, just considerin, availability may be limited. I may wait and see some other reviews and try to drive one if i can find one.

[MPR]

If it was a $40K car I may consider it worthy but Honda is sniffing glue trying to get $80K for that thing.

I've been a long time Honda fan and I understand where you're coming from, they do make great cars. To this day I still regret getting rid of my S2000 that I had for 6 years and 100K miles. That was/is such an awesome car. I also had an Integra GS-R for a few years.

The M240 is on a different level IMO..the power is stupid. I consider the M240 neck and neck with the S2000 as my all time favorite cars I've owned. The S2000's transmission and engine are a masterpiece, better yet the entire car is. I'm sure Honda did a great job on the new Integra. But then there's the M240, the B58 is Germany's 2JZ, maybe even better. Toyota reliability with BMW power.

Again, for me it comes down to price, you're paying more and getting less, IMO.

[ryo-]

tbh, I don't see myself paying almost the same price as the m240i for a car that is FWD and less HP with less features. but for the experience of a "good" manual, it all depends on the individual (I really liked my BRZ shifter feel with a short shifter kit and shifter springs, but I don't miss it at all with my G42).

[MPR]

Originally Posted by ryo-

tbh, I don't see myself paying almost the same price as the m240i for a car that is FWD and less HP with less features. but for the experience of a "good" manual, it all depends on the individual (I really liked my BRZ shifter feel with a short shifter kit and shifter springs, but I don't miss it at all with my G42).

I'm with you. I drove a BRZ for 10 years and 200K miles. It was fun and I was nervous that I wouldn't be able to adjust to an auto but the ZF transmission is awesome and I do not miss having a manual at all. My nephew now has it.

[PBANDJ]

I’ve been fortunate enough to drive both an M240i and ITS within a couple days of each other and both were a blast but very different. Different enough that I think most people would have a clear preference one way or the other after a short drive. If you feel you need a manual transmission to feel engaged, then by all means you should explore that. You like what you like and you don’t need to justify it to anyone else but yourself. You’d need a lot of luck, but try to find an ITS to test drive.

That being said, the m240i is definitely a higher tier vehicle in both build and components. The B58 is far superior to the engine in the ITS and the platform itself, rear bias AWD, has much more headroom from a performance perspective. Of course there are some things I liked about the ITS more, such as how light and nimble it felt comparatively and the width of the factory wheels and tires, but not enough to choose it over the m240i which was much quicker and classier, in my opinion.

[Coconut]

Sounds like you miss driving a drivers cars. IMO the M240i is the perfect fast luxury daily. Why not kept the M240i and get a second manual purpose built sports car? Perhaps a ND Miata, S2000, C6 Z06, C7?

[applecst]

I'm with everyone else here lol. But just wanted to point out that this is not the best place to figure out this question as everyone here loves m240i... It's a biased group 😂

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by MPR

If it was a $40K car I may consider it worthy but Honda is sniffing glue trying to get $80K for that thing.

I've been a long time Honda fan and I understand where you're coming from, they do make great cars. To this day I still regret getting rid of my S2000 that I had for 6 years and 100K miles. That was/is such an awesome car. I also had an Integra GS-R for a few years.

The M240 is on a different level IMO..the power is stupid. I consider the M240 neck and neck with the S2000 as my all time favorite cars I've owned. The S2000's transmission and engine are a masterpiece, better yet the entire car is. I'm sure Honda did a great job on the new Integra. But then there's the M240, the B58 is Germany's 2JZ, maybe even better. Toyota reliability with BMW power.

Again, for me it comes down to price, you're paying more and getting less, IMO.

Not $80K, not even close. Average mark up is still relatively high at ~$10K; however, if you are patient, lucky, and enterprising you can score one at MSRP. $5K is quite doable as well with legwork. I think the better question to ask is: Are you comfortable with a performance FWD car? I get the sense that many here despise the idea of a FWD performance car. If that's the place you're coming from, the FL5 or DE5 should be a hard pass. Don't even entertain it, look elsewhere.

[MPR]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

Not $80K, not even close. Average mark up is still relatively high at ~$10K; however, if you are patient, lucky, and enterprising you can score one at MSRP. $5K is quite doable as well with legwork. I think the better question to ask is: Are you comfortable with a performance FWD car? I get the sense that many here despise the idea of a FWD performance car. If that's the place you're coming from, the FL5 or DE5 should be a hard pass. Don't even entertain it, look elsewhere.

Not looking to turn this into a "M240 is better" thread, but it's hard not to. Assuming a $10K markup it's still at over $60K, which is more than a fully loaded M240. For a 300ish hp FWD Honda (with all due respect to Honda).

[danallxt]

Originally Posted by MPR

Not looking to turn this into a "M240 is better" thread, but it's hard not to. Assuming a $10K markup it's still at over $60K, which is more than a fully loaded M240. For a 300ish hp FWD Honda (with all due respect to Honda).

i agree, if i can't get one at MSRP i won't consider it.
Some things I prefer over the M240x I've already stated, it's a different car, has different attributes that i prefer and does not have some of the downsides of the M240x, weight, lack of steering feel, no manual etc.
Different strokes for different folks.

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by MPR

Not looking to turn this into a "M240 is better" thread, but it's hard not to. Assuming a $10K markup it's still at over $60K, which is more than a fully loaded M240. For a 300ish hp FWD Honda (with all due respect to Honda).

I'm not following the math but that's ok. There's also a biased group here and that's ok as well. Not really interested in getting into the is the FL5/DE5 better than the M240. I only chimed in because the Honda vehicles were mentioned by others. FWIW, perhaps not much for this crowd, The 2023 Car & Driver Lightning Lap event is telling. C&D brought 16 cars to VIR in a time attack/time trial type of event. The crop of cars selected are appropriate because they reasonably cover the performance spectrum by power, price point, and manufacturer. If you've ever been to VIR (and I have), it's a proper race track with the technical aspects and length to adequately measure vehicle performance. Anyhow, both vehicles in question participated. Here's the link below, it's a decent read.

https://www.caranddriver.com/feature...ning-lap-2023/

[MPR]

Originally Posted by Clark_Kent

I'm not following the math but that's ok.

A quick Google for Acura Integra type s gives me a $52K MSRP. $10K markup gets you to $62K. My loaded M240 MSRP was $59.3K IIRC.

Agreed on getting biased opinions on a BMW forum. And I have respect for Honda but the pricing is a bit inflated for what you are getting, granted, this also applies to the majority of the car market so I can't blame Honda individually.

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by MPR

A quick Google for Acura Integra type s gives me a $52K MSRP. $10K markup gets you to $62K. My loaded M240 MSRP was $59.3K IIRC.

Agreed on getting biased opinions on a BMW forum. And I have respect for Honda but the pricing is a bit inflated for what you are getting, granted, this also applies to the majority of the car market so I can't blame Honda individually.

Got it. I was looking at the FL5 at $45K. But, I agree, these inflated prices are wild. All the manufacturers are doing it and it's nearly impossible to find "value" at any price point.

[PBANDJ]

I think if you were considering the two cars, you’d have to consider several factors. I’ve owned several GTI’s, which I have adored, so I’m not opposed to FWD performance cars on principal. In their stock forms the CTR was about 1% faster around the track used for the C&D lightning lap but I would imagine the vast majority of people here NEVER track their cars. Most folks enjoy their cars on highway drives, pulling away from stop light, stop signs and onto freeway ramps, where the m240i is significantly quicker. If you track the car regularly, CTR might be better for a lot of tracks. However, if you track the car regularly, you’re probably more open to modifying the car and at least in my opinion, a rear biased AWD car is a better base than a FWD car. I’m just talking out my butt my I would imagine the CTR/ITS are much closer to their theoretical limit than the m240i is.

[XC3LLR8]

I could maybe do another manual if I could just shift and not mess with the clutch. I’m so over manuals, even after owning some of the best manual transmissions available. Now I’m like, why?

[PBANDJ]

Originally Posted by XC3LLR8

I could maybe do another manual if I could just shift and not mess with the clutch. I’m so over manuals, even after owning some of the best manual transmissions available. Now I’m like, why?

The first 6 cars I owned were all manual but, and I know this may be sacrilegious in a car forum, I don’t miss it. Got the DSG in my mk7.5 GTI because it was what was on the lot and I knew I’d likely tune it and the DSG could withstand vastly higher power, but at this point I’ll likely never go back. The enjoyment I gained by driving stick never offset the annoyance of being stuck in stop and go traffic with it. If I had a second car, a purely fun weekend car, I’d consider it but I’ll never have a manual daily again.

[Clark_Kent]

Originally Posted by bstingler

The first 6 cars I owned were all manual but, and I know this may be sacrilegious in a car forum, I don’t miss it. Got the DSG in my mk7.5 GTI because it was what was on the lot and I knew I’d likely tune it and the DSG could withstand vastly higher power, but at this point I’ll likely never go back. The enjoyment I gained by driving stick never offset the annoyance of being stuck in stop and go traffic with it. If I had a second car, a purely fun weekend car, I’d consider it but I’ll never have a manual daily again.

I hold my manuals near and dear; however, they are not primary cars. My daily is an automatic transmission. I could see how a manual daily could grow old.

[PRINCE THUNDERNIGHT]

Why is this posted here and not on a Honda forum?

[redcars]

For me, I prefer the dynamics of the RWD and the rear biased AWD. Launches better, can get the rear to rotate the car. Down sides of FWD is smoking the fronts to get going, torque steer and plowing. 6 speed is tempting, but with the low supply and dealer mark ups, it's not a good deal.

[ggggbmw]

A G42 is probably my next car. But there are enough things that annoy me about it compared to my M235i that I am desperately looking for other options.

I'm very interested in the Integra Type S. The practicality of 4 doors and a hatchback. The bones of a CTR in a much more refined package (heated seats are a strict requirement in Minnesota. ) Lighter than a G42 (not hard), and a definite sporting track capable car.

But, I think I would have a tough time giving up RWD. After a long string of FWD cars, my M235i RWD feels so good. And since it would be my only/daily car, well, I'm getting old and soft and I like the ZF8 auto a lot.

And any sort of ADM is absolute no. Of course, that's making it VERY hard to find anything fun to buy. At least the G42 is finally to a MSRP price and reasonable allocation/order wait period now.

[G42M240]

I've had this internal debate on more than one occasion.

The ITS is significantly more practical with the 4 door lift back. I also enjoy a manual and had an FL5. The brakes will be insanely good too.

The reason I stuck with the 240x is I prefer the awd, the full leather interior, and the B58/ZF drivetrain. Not to mention the trade in value would be less than the msrp of the ITS and I didn't want to pay more for was could be perceived as less car (less hp/tq and less options/features).

With that being said, if someone doesn't love the 240 but loves the ITS, I can see why they would want to make the switch. I love the ITS and if I didn't have the 240 with some mods (wheels/tires and exhaust), financed at an ultra low rate (2%), I'd consider it more if one were available at msrp in the color/interior combo I wanted.

[danallxt]

Originally Posted by PRINCE THUNDERNIGHT

Why is this posted here and not on a Honda forum?

so...? Sue me.

Cause I'm a member of this forum, i own a M240x, and I'm not sure all the members live in a BMW only bubble. Don't like it, don't read it.