[Humdizzle]

For the first half of the video on the Type S he compares it to the M2.

- States the integra feels just as fast as the M2 because it is 85% of the weight with 82% of the power. Goes on to show that the peak g-force when punching it 2nd gear is the same for both cars. So its "just as fast".

- says 0-60 doesn't really matter because people rarely do clutch dumps on the street. But is fair to say that fwd can't compete with rwd in terms of drag racing or lap times.

- Type S is the 'more fun' car... says before driving both he'd pick the M2 for a backroad without question. Now that he's driven them he picks the Type S.

Thoughts? anyone had a go in the Type S?

[RandomBro]

I briefly owned a ITS on top of my G87. I flipped the ITS for a profit.

He's wrong, the ITS does not feel as fast the G87. Not even close. If it's a slow speed canyon carving run, then maybe. But where you can utilize the topend power of the G87, the ITS in stock form does NOT feel even close in power.

0-60 matters because the G87 has one of the best RWD manual launch controls out there. So again he is wrong.

The ITS wins in the transmission, steering feel, nimbleness and confidence inspiring handling characteristics.

The g87 wins in the engine, speed/power, build quality, specialness and platform potential. Once u add lightweight wheels + some lowering, the G87 starts to close in on the ITS's strong points.

Stock for stock the ITS is a great car and can holds its own against the G87, Honda did an incredible job in making it feel insanely fun for a FWD car. Once you start talking light mods and tune its not even close the G87 curb stomps the ITS.

I really enjoyed my 2 weeks with the ITS though, but the G87 I kept for a reason. The ITS had paint match issues, panel gaps from hell and it wasn't as plush or nice.

[CadolinaRipr]

This sounds like the Civic Si comparison review. Completely different cars from the G87 IMO. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[RandomBro]

Originally Posted by CadolinaRipr

This sounds like the Civic Si comparison review. Completely different cars from the G87 IMO. 🤷🏻‍♂️

No, the 2 are very comparable. What the ITS does well in, the G87 can learn alot from. But the G87 has one thing u can't just mod or tune, the S58.

[BrooklynXB7]

As another forum member who currently owns both I can attest that the Integra is a ton of fun to drive. It is well balanced, sounds great and has a short and precise shifter. The M2 is definitely much quicker though.

[Kevin_The_Clean1]

Another apples to oranges comparison for automotive clickbait. Comparing FWD cars to RWD cars is a silly game that I refuse to play.

[Carefree]

This comparison is getting really old.

[Chris13002]

Great YouTuber, but I have lost interest in him when he sold his Supercharged S2000 for a Tesla Model 3 Performance.

[LCDRJohn]

Some of the issue is that the reviewer has a "giant-killer mindset". These guys are always looking for something that performs as well as things costing far more. I am sure he touts his G-Shock as being far better than an Omega, and he is of course, smarter & cleverer for owning the Casio. So take that you peasants!

Years ago, R&T started all this by taking the Jackson Racing CRX and "beating" a Ferrari. Of course, as a kid, I bought it 100% and purchased a CRX. It was fun, but we did stereo installs on a few ferraris and the owners let us drive them. I'm sorry to report that I quickly saw why the ferrari was more expensive.

I love the new Integra, but minus the giant-killer hype,(which includes the recent obsession with criticizing the New M2) it is just a wonderfully tuned, outrageously overpriced Civic with cheapish interior, vacuum-cleaner 4 banger, and spinny front wheels. I would certainly buy one if Acura did not lose their collective minds and make it cost as much as a Supra. $35K is the limit for this thing.

[matty_f]

I could only get 5 mins in before I had to turn it off, but his math is misleading. He’s using peak torque, so yes they have the same peak acceleration. I can’t find the type S torque curve, but they have almost the same peak RPM 7000 vs 7200. So it’s not all RPMs driving the horsepower difference. One of them has a juicer torque curve, so it that pulls hard for longer and that’s the one I’d get. <insert harder longer joke>

[RandomBro]

Originally Posted by matty_f

I could only get 5 mins in before I had to turn it off, but his math is misleading. He’s using peak torque, so yes they have the same peak acceleration. I can’t find the type S torque curve, but they have almost the same peak RPM 7000 vs 7200. So it’s not all RPMs driving the horsepower difference. One of them has a juicer torque curve, so it that pulls hard for longer and that’s the one I’d get. <insert harder longer joke>

For an engineer I was laughing also. Reported BHP isn't the same as WHP lol and he knows its 280WHP? vs 460WHP. Cherry picking information to substantiate your narrative as an engineer is a cardinal sin.

[///M TOWN]

Originally Posted by Kevin_The_Clean1

Another apples to oranges comparison for automotive clickbait. Comparing FWD cars to RWD cars is a silly game that I refuse to play.

💯

[DSTR]

Originally Posted by RandomBro

For an engineer I was laughing also. Reported BHP isn't the same as WHP lol and he knows its 280WHP? vs 460WHP. Cherry picking information to substantiate your narrative as an engineer is a cardinal sin.

Clicks n money. Its not about the truth...........anymore. YouTube is utter garbage at about 80% of the vehicle content on it. Bottom line he is simply a liar. No matter how he couches the data given.

[xbigbenx]

Test drove the ITS and my 240i three weeks ago. The only good parts for the ITS was the back seat and the grill look. It didn't come close to the drive feel of the 240i. I have no idea how he's going to say the ITS is close to an M2 when it didn't feel better than the m240i.

[RandomBro]

Originally Posted by xbigbenx

Test drove the ITS and my 240i three weeks ago. The only good parts for the ITS was the back seat and the grill look. It didn't come close to the drive feel of the 240i. I have no idea how he's going to say the ITS is close to an M2 when it didn't feel better than the m240i.

How hard did you drive the ITS? It doesn't shine until u push it about 7/10+ on twisties/turns. If u drove it slowly in the city in a straight line, you won't experience any of its strong points.

Where the m240i excels in straight lines but doesn't come close to the ITS in handling situations.

[matty_f]

Originally Posted by M2siast

I don't know guys, I think you are being too harsh.

Remember he is talking about subjective points, and pulling data to explain feelings.

He says: "I felt similar thrust to the back of the seat in second gear as I did in the M2"

- I have never driven the ITS, but couldn't it be true? It doesn't mean any more than just this: the feeling of thrust in second gear when getting on an on-ramp.

He says: "I 100 times out of 100 would've picked the M2 as a fun car, now I choose the ITS"

-Again, never having driven the ITS, couldn't that be true? I mean, it's subjective personal preference, both cars can be fun, but to him, the ITS is well sorted and rounded, and he likes the way it drives. I think everybody has been liking the way the ITS drives. But it's subjective, as most things.

He didn't make any claim about any objective matter, AFAIK. I don't think it's fair to say he "lied". He said what he feels, this can't be a lie, ever.

The numbers he pulled to explain why, in that particular situation, in that specific case, the cars felt like pulling similarly, made sense to me. I would have to drive both objectively to compare that particular test.

But picture this: what if he said that the ITS pulls HARDER in 6th gear at 10 miles per hour than the M2? I can fathom that. It's still subjective as a feeling (unless numbers are posted), but we wouldn't be up in arms about it. Glad he didn't go that far, though, because that's not how (either) car is designed.

I try not to assume malice when it can easily be explained with incompetence. I also think people who presume to be subject matter experts should be held to higher standard. His math was bad and could cause someone to make a regrettable decision.

He also didn’t mention the 3rd derivative of position, which I believe he both is, and could be attributed to his feelings of being pushed back from the Acura

And if you get that joke you’re welcome to come over for beers.

Side note: around the web2.0 days before these sort of reviews, I had an acquaintance who was trying to decide between a Z and an S2000 for his first new car. He drove both and loved the Z because it felt torquier and the S2000 felt slow. I told him to drive the S2000 again and wring the revs out. He came back the next day driving his new S2000 and a giant smile. My advice for web3.0, get the M2

[clydefrog]

Originally Posted by matty_f

He also didn’t mention the 3rd derivative of position, which I believe he both is, and could be attributed to his feelings of being pushed back from the Acura

And if you get that joke you’re welcome to come over for beers.

I googled it does that count?

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by matty_f

I try not to assume malice when it can easily be explained with stupidity. I also think people who presume to be subject matter experts should be held to higher standard. His math was bad and could cause someone to make a regrettable decision.

He also didn’t mention the 3rd derivative of position, which I believe he both is, and could be attributed to his feelings of being pushed back from the Acura

And if you get that joke you’re welcome to come over for beers.

Hanlon's razor and jerk.

[baron95]

His entire video ONLY works because he picked the very weakest point in the M2 manual - the atrociously long, buzz killing 2nd gear ratio.

If he did the math and test in an Auto M2 in 2nd gear it would destroy the ITS.

The M6 M2 gearing in 2nd, 3rd, 4th is simply horrible. The A8 gearing in in 1st-7th is bang on, with 8 being the EPA gear.

And, of course, as others have mentioned, for an in gear acceleration pull like he is describing, it is the power/torque under the curve that matters, not peak values.

No disrespect to the ITS. It is probably the best FWD car ever created.

[aerobod]

Originally Posted by baron95

The M6 M2 gearing in 2nd, 3rd, 4th is simply horrible. The A8 gearing in in 1st-7th is bang on, with 8 being the EPA gear.

Bearing in mind in the manual transmission 6th is not an overdrive and is designed for reaching the 285km/h maximum speed beyond the peak power, the gears are evenly spaced. It is not geared for just in-town and North American speed limits and lazy drivers who don't want to use the full rev range, but as a sporting vehicle with well spaced gears over the whole speed range.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by M2siast

The problem is that you are looking at the video as an M2 review.
It's not.

It's a review of the ITS. The M2 is used as a reference point.

I hear you. I was just commenting on the M2 references.

For those interested in an ITS and wanting to get his take, the video is fine - I don't have any problems with it. He is moving farther and farther from the engineering principles for clicks, but that is fine.

[baron95]

Originally Posted by aerobod

Bearing in mind in the manual transmission 6th is not an overdrive and is designed for reaching the 285km/h maximum speed beyond the peak power, the gears are evenly spaced. It is not geared for just in-town and North American speed limits and lazy drivers who don't want to use the full rev range, but as a sporting vehicle with well spaced gears over the whole speed range.

6th *is* an overdrive - 0.85:1 - ratio.

The S58 power curve is more peaky than the S55 and the second gear ratio being nearly 1/2 the first gear ratio is a bad experience, doesn't matter how many words you put around it.

That is why many "enthusiast" reviewers are on the reccord that on the G87 they prefer the A8.

I made my decision to go A8 after driving a HEA M6. I will miss the manual, but it was really not matched well to the engine. And on top of that you have to miss on remote start, smart key, wireless charging, etc - too much.