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      09-25-2023, 02:35 PM   #1
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Was reading an article here: https://www.carthrottle.com/news/com...int-bmw-m-cars

Discussing the transition away from a distinction of M cars and M Competition cars. The theory being that non competition models will be a thing of the past with all cars being a Competition spec.

The specualtion here is that G87 M2 with a manual transmission could be gone as some as 2025 with testing of its replacement rumored here and elsewhere.

What do you think the odds are this rumor is true?

Edit: yes this is a self serving question as I will hurry up and place my deposit to get in line if production of the MY24 ends in 10 months and takes the 6MT with it!
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      09-25-2023, 02:48 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist View Post
Was reading an article (here:https://www.carthrottle.com/news/com...nt-bmw-m-cars)
Discussing the transition away from a distinction of M cars and M Competition cars. The theory being that non competition models will be a thing of the past with all cars being a Competition spec.

The specualtion here is that G97 M2 with a manual transmission could be gone as some as 2025 with testing of its replacement rumored here and elsewhere.

What do you think the odds are this rumor is true?

Edit: yes this is a self serving question as I will hurry up and place my deposit to get in line if production of the MY24 ends in 10 months and takes the 6MT with it!
Assuming you meant G87 as the G97 is the X3M. I speculate the G87 is the last manual and will be gone for MY25 (maybe). The G97 X3M will be auto only. My 2 cents.
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      09-25-2023, 03:28 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadolinaRipr View Post
Assuming you meant G87 as the G97 is the X3M. I speculate the G87 is the last manual and will be gone for MY25 (maybe). The G97 X3M will be auto only. My 2 cents.
Yup, apologies for the typo in the body - only (personally) care about the G87
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      09-25-2023, 04:02 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadolinaRipr View Post
Assuming you meant G87 as the G97 is the X3M. I speculate the G87 is the last manual and will be gone for MY25 (maybe). The G97 X3M will be auto only. My 2 cents.
you really think there will effectively be only 1 model year with a manual transmission, considering MY23's had all of ~4 months of sales?
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      09-25-2023, 04:09 PM   #5
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No way the G87 for the US market will not offer MT for its entire lifecycle. Other markets with low uptake rates for MT are a different matter altogether.
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      09-25-2023, 04:14 PM   #6
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does anyone know the take rate of MT in G87 cycle so far?
did bmw release that information?
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      09-25-2023, 04:20 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag View Post
No way the G87 for the US market will not offer MT for its entire lifecycle. Other markets with low uptake rates for MT are a different matter altogether.
I guess the bigger point is, what if the lifecycle of the g87 is over as we know it past 2024 and the new ďcompĒ only M2 is the replacement?

I mean, how many car does BMW offer with the 6mt at this point? Itís likely a logistics headache for no real benefit to BMW
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      09-25-2023, 04:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clydefrog View Post
you really think there will effectively be only 1 model year with a manual transmission, considering MY23's had all of ~4 months of sales?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist View Post
I guess the bigger point is, what if the lifecycle of the g87 is over as we know it past 2024 and the new “comp” only M2 is the replacement?

I mean, how many car does BMW offer with the 6mt at this point? It’s likely a logistics headache for no real benefit to BMW
That was my point and why my opinion is what it is. Wrong or right, that is what I think, as of today. :shrug:
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      09-25-2023, 04:40 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist View Post
I guess the bigger point is, what if the lifecycle of the g87 is over as we know it past 2024 and the new ďcompĒ only M2 is the replacement?

I mean, how many car does BMW offer with the 6mt at this point? Itís likely a logistics headache for no real benefit to BMW

They aren't going to make M2 Comps only. Thats just plain silly. But hey, feel free to speculate or spread unsubstantiated rumors.
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      09-25-2023, 04:44 PM   #10
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the comp is not the replacement. that happened in the f87 due to emissions reasons. the N55 was old and replaced by the B58 through the entire lineup.
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      09-25-2023, 05:18 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Power Rob View Post
They aren't going to make M2 Comps only. Thats just plain silly. But hey, feel free to speculate or spread unsubstantiated rumors.
Iím literally asking a question based on quotes in multiple places including the article I linked contrary to your assertion.

Is your position that van Meel did not state Weíre not going to split any longer between M and M Competition, it will all be Competition in the future,Ē van Meel says. as quoted?
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      09-25-2023, 05:37 PM   #12
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Guess I’m not the only one that heard this today.

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/09/no...normal-at-bmw/

Also, I just give my opinion and speculation. Not spreading rumors. I’m just some rando from the internet. Only owned a few beemers and I’m not even German. Take it all with a grain of salt. ��

Last edited by CadolinaRipr; 09-28-2023 at 11:56 AM..
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      09-25-2023, 05:41 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadolinaRipr View Post
Also, I just give my opinion and speculation. Not spreading rumors. Iím just some rando from the internet. Only owned a few beemers and Iím not even German. Take it all with a grain of salt. 😉
Same here. Just a guy on a forum asking a question related to the subject of the forum based on news reported. No idea how thats starting a rumor or why anyone would beleive rumors I have been accused of starting.

Perhaps this is a completely fabricated quote? Thatís cool with me and better for all that like this car (including me) If there is indications that this info is false, please feel free to shareÖ
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      09-25-2023, 05:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist View Post
Same here. Just a guy on a forum asking a question related to the subject of the forum based on news reported. No idea how thats starting a rumor or why anyone would beleive rumors I have been accused of starting.

Perhaps this is a completely fabricated quote? Thatís cool with me and better for all that like this car (including me) If there is indications that this info is false, please feel free to shareÖ

First off, link doesnt work. I dont believe ever publication that is out, regardless who is quoted (or even quoted out of context). If BMW announces directly in a press release, I will listen.

Based on your thinking (or the perception of the article that I cant see), how many would they produce in a model year and how many would they sell with a nicely optioned version at $90k - $100k (or higher) with no non-comp model?
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      09-25-2023, 06:00 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadolinaRipr View Post
Guess I’m not the only one that heard this today.

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/09/no...normal-at-bmw/

Also, I just give my opinion and speculation. Not spreading rumors. I’m just some rando from the internet. Only owned a few beemers and I’m not even German. Take it all with a grain of salt. ��

Articles also tend to breed articles. Am I skeptical, yes. Could I be proven wrong, of course, but for now , just thing in terms of reality.

You may not mean to be spreading rumors but someone reads this post, tells a friends, who tells a friend (people are gullible)...that is how rumors get started/spread.
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      09-25-2023, 06:14 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Power Rob View Post
First off, link doesnt work. I dont believe ever publication that is out, regardless who is quoted (or even quoted out of context). If BMW announces directly in a press release, I will listen.

Based on your thinking (or the perception of the article that I cant see), how many would they produce in a model year and how many would they sell with a nicely optioned version at $90k - $100k (or higher) with no non-comp model?
Link fixed

I also gave the direct quote from the article in this thread.

Got it, approved Rob discussions are official press releases only - should be a super interesting forum

This seems oddly to completely fabricate, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility. To directly attribute a quote like this could have sever legal implications. That being said, this specific publication is far from a primary source of authority so itís completely possible you are 100% right and this is garbage. I hardly think discussing it will lead to a wildfire of speculation the boiler over to the general population - and if it does BMW can officially confirm or deny however they choose.
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      09-25-2023, 06:39 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rate-of-Twist View Post
Link fixed

I also gave the direct quote from the article in this thread.

Got it, approved Rob discussions are official press releases only - should be a super interesting forum

This seems oddly to completely fabricate, but certainly not out of the realm of possibility. To directly attribute a quote like this could have sever legal implications. That being said, this specific publication is far from a primary source of authority so itís completely possible you are 100% right and this is garbage. I hardly think discussing it will lead to a wildfire of speculation the boiler over to the general population - and if it does BMW can officially confirm or deny however they choose.

Another possibility is its a "name game"/marketing ploy and of course making a few extra dollars. The MY25 is already set to have a bump in power. If they make all "base" M cars the M Competition (which would give more notoriety to the M line) with a modest increase in performance over the current base models. They could then have the CS/CSL be the "limited" editions and further elevated performance (this would reduce the number of different models).

In other words, the M Competition would be the new base, with high production, with a modest performance increase (but not necessarily as much as the current Competition), then the CS/CSL be the highly allocated with an extreme performance increase. That theory I could believe.
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      09-25-2023, 09:12 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M_Power Rob View Post
Another possibility is its a "name game"/marketing ploy and of course making a few extra dollars. The MY25 is already set to have a bump in power. If they make all "base" M cars the M Competition (which would give more notoriety to the M line) with a modest increase in performance over the current base models. They could then have the CS/CSL be the "limited" editions and further elevated performance (this would reduce the number of different models).

In other words, the M Competition would be the new base, with high production, with a modest performance increase (but not necessarily as much as the current Competition), then the CS/CSL be the highly allocated with an extreme performance increase. That theory I could believe.
You are going through a lot of gymnastics to avoid saying, "I was wrong. Sorry. I shouldn't have been so smug and snarky."
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      09-25-2023, 09:18 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FryCookOnVenus View Post
You are going through a lot of gymnastics to avoid saying, "I was wrong. Sorry. I shouldn't have been so smug and snarky."

No, not really. IF they are, they arent getting rid of base M cars to produce only all highly allocated, max power/performance only models at extreme pricing.

And dont give me any BS that the M lites will replace and be the new base M cars. They will easily lose customers if that is the case. They aren't stupid.

Last edited by M_Power Rob; 09-25-2023 at 09:24 PM..
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      09-26-2023, 02:23 AM   #20
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They have higher margins on the manual, so they would probably only remove the option if itís incompatible with the mild hybrid system when they start implementing that.
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      09-26-2023, 05:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Humdizzle View Post
the comp is not the replacement. that happened in the f87 due to emissions reasons. the N55 was old and replaced by the B58 through the entire lineup.
The N55 was replaced in the F87 Comp and CS by the S55.

B58 in the G42 M240i.

S58 now in the G87.

But you're exactly right that it was because of emissions.

Logic, tradition, and sales (the 6MT take rate is very high for the manual in the M2 -- over 50% I believe in the U.S.) SHOULD lead BMW to keep the 6MT going for the rest of the G87 production run.

BUT .... BMW often makes decisions that defy logic.

I.E. ...
  • Only 5 colors on the G87
  • Offering the XM at $167,000 (dealerships can't sell them in many areas)
  • Eliminating the iDrive controller on the new X1 (and future models too?)

What others can you think of?
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      09-26-2023, 06:25 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M2PDX View Post
BUT .... BMW often makes decisions that defy logic.

I.E. ...


Only 5 colors on the G87


What others can you think of?
Not attempting to split hairs or negate your point but, doesnít G87 have 7 colors?
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