[bigrum]

I am having an electrician come out to install a transfer switch in the event of a power outage so that I can switch over to an electric generator. Although I know I can do this myself, I'd be more comfortable having a professional do it.

Since I'm sure they will charge me just for the trip out to my house, it got me to thinking what else should I consider having them do while they are out here to make things easier for me? What are your suggestions? Here is what I am considering so far:

1. Outlets under my roof eaves to make holiday lighting cleaner.
2. Outlets close to my toilets so I can install bidets.
3. Outlets in my walk-in closets, they currently don't have any.

I have already converted my bathrooms and closets' light switches to motion sensor, and the bathroom fans to timed switches. I have also converted some plug outlets to the type that include USB ports.

[shimmy23]

outlet in your garage dedicated to car charging... it's coming. lol

[2000cs]

Whole house surge protector. Installs in panel, which electrician will be working in anyway.

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

Whole house surge protector. Installs in panel, which electrician will be working in anyway.

Yeah, not sure if this is a gimmick or not, but whatever, we had that installed in ours when we did renos because everytime the power went out, it would nuke the heated floors and we'd have to buy a new controller unit.

I think we've had one power outage since, but not sure, but thus far, the floors are working...kind of. I don't think I'd put heated floors in again though.

[vreihen16]

Originally Posted by shimmy23

outlet in your garage dedicated to car charging... it's coming. lol

It's already here. My former mig welder outlet in the garage is now connected to our Level 2 EVSE (car charger), since my mean doctors won't let me even be near an arc welder for good reasons.....

[zx10guy]

Where's your main service panel? Garage? How big of a house do you have? One of the big renovations I did on my home, I had the electrician install a 100A sub panel in the basement. It's come in extremely handy. I have dedicated circuits for my A/V room. I also have a two dedicated circuits for my "server" room. One was wired by the electrician which is a 20A 120V outlet. That's powering my network wall rack. The other I wired in myself which is a 30A 240V outlet. That's feeding a 6kVA UPS that's powering my 44U server rack.

Another major renno, I had the electrician put in additional outlets along the wall of my garage; in addition to a 30A 240V outlet for a garage heater. I have a 3000W forced air heater mounted to the ceiling using that outlet with an electrical baseboard thermostat wired in to allow me to turn on and set the temperature at floor level.

If you're handy, you can just wire in your own whole house surge protector. I did mine myself. Depending on the system, you either have to drop in a dual bus breaker or there are ones that just snap into a breaker slot. The last piece of wiring is to wire in the ground wire. Mine is from SquareD where it's modular. I can see the status of the surge protector via a green LED status indicator. No green means it's shot. It also has surge modules for cable and phone. I put mine in after getting hit by a major surge from a work truck crashing into a utility pole that sent a power surge into some of the homes in my cul de sac. Fortunately, I had surge protectors in place to protect my electronics. I only suffered one tripped breaker and one cooked surge protector. My two other neighbors didn't fair so well. Both sustained over a thousand in damages.

For the transfer switch, are you putting in a manual or automatic transfer switch? Do you already have a backup generator? Asking because I have a 20kW Generac backup generator on my home with two load centers.

[bigrum]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Where's your main service panel? Garage? How big of a house do you have? One of the big renovations I did on my home, I had the electrician install a 100A sub panel in the basement. It's come in extremely handy. I have dedicated circuits for my A/V room. I also have a two dedicated circuits for my "server" room. One was wired by the electrician which is a 20A 120V outlet. That's powering my network wall rack. The other I wired in myself which is a 30A 240V outlet. That's feeding a 6kVA UPS that's powering my 44U server rack.

Another major renno, I had the electrician put in additional outlets along the wall of my garage; in addition to a 30A 240V outlet for a garage heater. I have a 3000W forced air heater mounted to the ceiling using that outlet with an electrical baseboard thermostat wired in to allow me to turn on and set the temperature at floor level.

If you're handy, you can just wire in your own whole house surge protector. I did mine myself. Depending on the system, you either have to drop in a dual bus breaker or there are ones that just snap into a breaker slot. The last piece of wiring is to wire in the ground wire. Mine is from SquareD where it's modular. I can see the status of the surge protector via a green LED status indicator. No green means it's shot. It also has surge modules for cable and phone. I put mine in after getting hit by a major surge from a work truck crashing into a utility pole that sent a power surge into some of the homes in my cul de sac. Fortunately, I had surge protectors in place to protect my electronics. I only suffered one tripped breaker and one cooked surge protector. My two other neighbors didn't fair so well. Both sustained over a thousand in damages.

For the transfer switch, are you putting in a manual or automatic transfer switch? Do you already have a backup generator? Asking because I have a 20kW Generac backup generator on my home with two load centers.

I was planning to do a manual switch. Reasons being I am in a residential area with my neighbors super close in physical proximity, plus with the concrete already laid around my house I don't know how financially feasible it would be to wire in a permanent generator. i have natural gas plumbed to my house, but I hear even that you have to make sure it is rated for your generator and may have to upgrade that as well.

My circuit breaker board is in the garage for those that have asked. This is a ~3k sq ft house, I'm most concerned with fridge/freezers, tankless water heater, electric/gas fireplace and hvac. I would like to add some additional wall outlets in the garage, if nothing else convert 2 plug outlets to 4 plug.

The plan so far was to maybe buy a Honda gas powered portable generator to leave in my garage, select the few appliances I want to power on the breaker panel, and during a power outage plumb the exhaust gasses out the bottom of a cracked garage door.

[OtoPA]

Originally Posted by bigrum

I was planning to do a manual switch. Reasons being I am in a residential area with my neighbors super close in physical proximity, plus with the concrete already laid around my house I don't know how financially feasible it would be to wire in a permanent generator. i have natural gas plumbed to my house, but I hear even that you have to make sure it is rated for your generator and may have to upgrade that as well.

My circuit breaker board is in the garage for those that have asked. This is a ~3k sq ft house, I'm most concerned with fridge/freezers, tankless water heater, electric/gas fireplace and hvac. I would like to add some additional wall outlets in the garage, if nothing else convert 2 plug outlets to 4 plug.

The plan so far was to maybe buy a Honda gas powered portable generator to leave in my garage, select the few appliances I want to power on the breaker panel, and during a power outage plumb the exhaust gasses out the bottom of a cracked garage door.

We've a 44kw whole house Generac attached to 500 gal propane tank. Pad, minus the tank, is about 2x3 ft. Might your NG supply go down as well for a SHTF (tornado, wildfire, whatever) situation? We have an auto-transfer switch, as power never conveniently goes out when you're home. Surge is placed on pole next to transfer. Last winter during ice storm and aftermath, generator ran non-stop for about 100 hrs.

[eleven11]

220 volt in the garage for a mounted heater during the winter (depending on where you live).

[Patrick303]

Here's a few things I had my electrician add:

- outlets in the living room ceiling for easy power to my surround sound speakers.

- added power drops and switches on either side of the bed for wall mounted sconces.

- added an outlet with USB-C port inside the wall for a wall-mounted tablet for smart home control.

- add outlets on every wall in the closet if you plan to have custom closets with accent lighting installed.

- add outlet for a dehumidifier if you're storing firearms or other sensitive items in a safe or small room without outlets.

- add outlets behind wall-mounted tv's.

[dradernh]

Originally Posted by OtoPA

We've a 44kw whole house Generac attached to 500 gal propane tank. Pad, minus the tank, is about 2x3 ft. Might your NG supply go down as well for a SHTF (tornado, wildfire, whatever) situation? We have an auto-transfer switch, as power never conveniently goes out when you're home. Surge is placed on pole next to transfer. Last winter during ice storm and aftermath, generator ran non-stop for about 100 hrs.

^ This.

One suggestion: if the outage is going to continue indefinitely and for whatever reason more propane can't be delivered, the propane tank contents can last quite a bit longer if the generator is turned off periodically; e.g., for a few hours at night. We got through a 12-day outage that way, and the contents of our two refrigerators held up surprisingly well.

It was only after 6 days that it became clear that we would eventually run out of propane before a delivery could be made again, so I don't have a clear idea on how long refrigerator contents can last when they're turned off for ~6 hours each night while the doors are kept closed.

[2000cs]

Originally Posted by bigrum

The plan so far was to maybe buy a Honda gas powered portable generator to leave in my garage, select the few appliances I want to power on the breaker panel, and during a power outage plumb the exhaust gasses out the bottom of a cracked garage door.

This set up is responsible for a lot of deaths each year. The generators “walk” when running and put exhaust in the garage. Any exhaust leak is a problem. Stick it on a pad outside - there are fiberglass or plastic pads that are strong enough to support a generator (even a permanent one) if you’re worried about cost/space.

I recall the 2003 NE blackout where gas stations couldn’t power their pumps for several days, which means once the generators ran out of fuel, they were done until the power came back on. How many gallons are you going to store in your garage?

Really, I’d spend the money for a permanent generator running on nat gas with an automatic transfer/trip. That is the safest and most cost effective to run, and able to run long periods.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by 2000cs

This set up is responsible for a lot of deaths each year. The generators “walk” when running and put exhaust in the garage. Any exhaust leak is a problem. Stick it on a pad outside - there are fiberglass or plastic pads that are strong enough to support a generator (even a permanent one) if you’re worried about cost/space.

I recall the 2003 NE blackout where gas stations couldn’t power their pumps for several days, which means once the generators ran out of fuel, they were done until the power came back on. How many gallons are you going to store in your garage?

Really, I’d spend the money for a permanent generator running on nat gas with an automatic transfer/trip. That is the safest and most cost effective to run, and able to run long periods.

We have a 17.5kw portable that hooks up to the panel with a manual transfer switch, which we bought after the 3rd hurricane in 2 years in 2005-2006. I would never run it in the garage and bought 2 carbon monoxide detectors for inside the house when I got the generator as a further precaution. Since it hooks up to the panel (via a manual plug on the outside side of the garage wall) and is large, I can run the fridge, stove top, small appliances, one central ac unit, water heater, most ceiling fans and most lights. Certainly not the entire house and a PITA to use, but more than enough to be comfortable in an extended power outage, assuming gasoline is available. (Gas stations here are all required by law to have generators, but it can still be a PITA to obtain gasoline following a major storm.)

We went this route because at the time, the cost was about 10%-15% of installing a standby. We don’t have nat gas service, so we’d need a huge tank to run a standby for a week. I agree it’s safer and a great convenience, especially if running water heaters, dryer and grill off the tank, but just could justify a $20k+ project or running costs to run closer to a whole house generator. Knock on wood, we have used the gas generator once in 15+ years and now have a vacation condo in NC where we can go if a major storm is approaching or power is out for an extended period. I do think there’s an application for gas generators, as long as there is a plan to use them safely and see them as a crutch in a pinch rather than full replacement for the grid.

(As far as power going out when we aren’t here, we mostly don’t care if we aren’t here. We keep less food in the freezers in the summer and froze some water in a cup, which we keep in the freezer with a coin on top of it. If we return home and the coin is no longer on top, we know the power went out for an extended period and the food is probably bad.)

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by bigrum

I was planning to do a manual switch. Reasons being I am in a residential area with my neighbors super close in physical proximity, plus with the concrete already laid around my house I don't know how financially feasible it would be to wire in a permanent generator. i have natural gas plumbed to my house, but I hear even that you have to make sure it is rated for your generator and may have to upgrade that as well.

My circuit breaker board is in the garage for those that have asked. This is a ~3k sq ft house, I'm most concerned with fridge/freezers, tankless water heater, electric/gas fireplace and hvac. I would like to add some additional wall outlets in the garage, if nothing else convert 2 plug outlets to 4 plug.

The plan so far was to maybe buy a Honda gas powered portable generator to leave in my garage, select the few appliances I want to power on the breaker panel, and during a power outage plumb the exhaust gasses out the bottom of a cracked garage door.

If you want, I can take pictures of how my generator is placed next to my house. I have a sloping grade as I have a walkout basement. The electricians built a gravel box made out of pressure treated lumber. The generator sits on top of this gravel box. My house is what I consider odd as the electrical service/panel is on one side of the house and the gas service is on the other side. The generator was placed on the side nearest the main service panel.

You are correct in needing to do calculations as to how much natural gas service you would need to determine if you need an upgraded gas meter; particularly with that tankless hot water heater. In my situation, I had to get an upgraded gas meter because of all the gas appliances I have in my house. I have 3 gas fireplaces, gas range, gas central heat, and gas hot water heater. Another complication I had was for the gas line to the generator. The contractors ran a dedicated gas line from the meter into, through, and back out of my house to connect to the generator.

As to sizing of the generator, you can save a little bit by not energizing everything in your house during an outage. You can select specific circuits to power up. I started this way but then couldn't really figure out what areas of my house I wouldn't care to have power. Looked at the cost difference and just decided to power the entire house and pay the extra difference. During the run in testing of the generator, the electricians had the A/C going along with the dryer and the generator wasn't stressed out at all.

Some of the other members mention propane. I haven't looked into this. But my generator will run on either propane or natural gas. It just requires flipping a switch (I think) in the engine to switch fuel types. So I can conceivably get a propane tank as a back up that could be plumbed up to the generator with some sort of diverter valve to select between fuel sources. Not even sure if this would even pass code. But so far with even the major power outages I've had here, natural gas still flows.

[bigrum]

Thanks all for the input, I had an electrician quote me today for the backup power setup. He made me aware of the interlock switch option vs automatic transfer switch, because outages are rare for me I think I may go this route with a portable multi-fuel generator rolled outside when needed. Price seems good at $1250, my research so far showed that it typically runs $1500 or more.