[sidewaysm2]

Does anybody have any experience how the G87 compares to cars like the 718 or the 911?

You always hear how Porsche makes near perfect cars, bht after having driven an M2 my mind doesn’t allow much more imagination for what could be better haha

Any thoughts?

[curtdragon]

From all the research I have done as well as test drives.

911/718 you can go closer to the limit without too much risk. Car is almost perfect in terms of control and handling. Unless it's a GT car.
Both are very similar but Porsche makes them different on purpose. Steering feel is great. Manual and auto are both top of their game.

911 lacks power IMO but can be tuned well. Perfect daily driver as it's become comfy.

718 lacks power but sounds amazing. Can be tuned but not as much. Perfect weekend driver.

M2 gobs of power, immense tuning capacity. Handles well but not close to the others. Can get rowdy easier. Steering feel sucks.

Honestly the manual 992 T I drove felt very similar to the manual M2 but 911 felt more nimble and smoother.

What to do? Xdrive M2 with port injection and upgraded turbo(s) for fast driving
718 4.0 or GT4 with exhaust and link pipes for weekend driving (manual with bucket seats)

992 C4S for daily driving. Auto and 18 way seats. Aerokit for style.

[sidewaysm2]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

From all the research I have done as well as test drives.

911/718 you can go closer to the limit without too much risk. Car is almost perfect in terms of control and handling. Unless it's a GT car.
Both are very similar but Porsche makes them different on purpose. Steering feel is great. Manual and auto are both top of their game.

911 lacks power IMO but can be tuned well. Perfect daily driver as it's become comfy.

718 lacks power but sounds amazing. Can be tuned but not as much. Perfect weekend driver.

M2 gobs of power, immense tuning capacity. Handles well but not close to the others. Can get rowdy easier. Steering feel sucks.

Honestly the manual 992 T I drove felt very similar to the manual M2 but 911 felt more nimble and smoother.

What to do? Xdrive M2 with port injection and upgraded turbo(s) for fast driving
718 4.0 or GT4 with exhaust and link pipes for weekend driving (manual with bucket seats)

992 C4S for daily driving. Auto and 18 way seats. Aerokit for style.

So there still is a noticeable improvement on the overall handling in the 911 compared to the M2? More confidence also while driving?

Having not driven a more advanced car it is so hard to imagine how it can be better haha

[Mr. Hankey]

Originally Posted by sidewaysm2

So there still is a noticeable improvement on the overall handling in the 911 compared to the M2? More confidence also while driving?

ABSOLUTELY - they are completely different animals. One is lighter, lower to the ground (stock), lower roofline, less acceleration on paper yet feels just as fast or faster, PDK is amazing. Steering feel in the Porsche is better. Turns...OMG, turns...

M2 honestly in testing outperforms just due to sheer power (but legit cornering ability) based on reviews, but the 911 *just feels* more performance-oriented, whereas with the M2 you have performance AND *theoretically* you can take yourself and 3 friends to go hang at a brewery for a couple hours and bring back four 12-packs of amazing beer with you...the 911 could handle three 4-packs, and 1 friend, or that same friend and four 4-packs, one between his front legs...theoretically of course.

Use case matters....if you want performance and fun, don't need 'utility' and haven't experienced a Porsche, that's the route to go. If you want performance and fun but need some utility, M2 all day. Both are trackable. Great to have this choice. I obviously have the M2. Spent a lot of time in 911s. You can feel the weight of the M2 in braking and turn-in. 911 Not so much.

[sidewaysm2]

Originally Posted by Mr. Hankey

ABSOLUTELY - they are completely different animals. One is lighter, lower to the ground (stock), lower roofline, less acceleration on paper yet feels just as fast or faster, PDK is amazing. Steering feel in the Porsche is better. Turns...OMG, turns...

M2 honestly in testing outperforms just due to sheer power (but legit cornering ability) based on reviews, but the 911 *just feels* more performance-oriented, whereas with the M2 you have performance AND *theoretically* you can take yourself and 3 friends to go hang at a brewery for a couple hours and bring back four 12-packs of amazing beer with you...the 911 could handle three 4-packs, and 1 friend, or that same friend and four 4-packs, one between his front legs...theoretically of course.

Use case matters....if you want performance and fun, don't need 'utility' and haven't experienced a Porsche, that's the route to go. If you want performance and fun but need some utility, M2 all day. Both are trackable. Great to have this choice. I obviously have the M2. Spent a lot of time in 911s. You can feel the weight of the M2 in braking and turn-in. 911 Not so much.

First of all thanks for the great reply! Is there any way you can put into words how exactly it feels compared to the M2? As mentioned, incomprehensible for me how it can be better haha

When I point the Beamer anywhere it goes there, when I hit the gas pedal it moves, when I break it brakes. The only thing I can imagine to be better is that is accelerates faster, breaks slower and has more grip.

Faster, grippier, and better brakes just doesn’t sound like the magical experience people talk of when they drive 911s haha

I guess my brain is craving some well expressed driving review like maybe a Clarkson would do!

[RobM2]

Originally Posted by sidewaysm2

First of all thanks for the great reply! Is there any way you can put into words how exactly it feels compared to the M2? As mentioned, incomprehensible for me how it can be better haha

I own both a 993 (1996 911) and a G87.

I love my M2. But the magic of the 911 is you can't easily put in words why it is better. There's something singular about these cars in how they engage the driver and communicate every necessary detail of the road.

[curtdragon]

My quote was answered but here's some thoughts. The base 911 with under 400 hp has the same 0-60 figures as a +100 hp M2 and a higher top speed.

Both the AWD and rwd platforms of the P put power down better

[Romo]

Owning a G87 M2 and a GT4RS

M2 is super smooth, steers lovely, immense power low down, a great DD

RS is raw, you have to work the car and then wil be rewarded. Steers even better

PDK is far better vs 8 speed autobox


I can not choose between the 2, that`s why I do own them both

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by curtdragon

My quote was answered but here's some thoughts. The base 911 with under 400 hp has the same 0-60 figures as a +100 hp M2 and a higher top speed.

Both the AWD and rwd platforms of the P put power down better

The M2 with drivers package has a top speed of approx 177mph. At close to 180 we are just playing with numbers because on the US you're not doing that top speed run. At least no and keeping your license.

I looked at the 718 4.0 and the 911 and I just couldn't justify the premium for the P car.

If we aren't considering price then the 911 (2+2) has about as much usable backseat as an M2 and is a really different car.

The 718 is closer to the M2 but dramatically different.

It really boils down to driving dynamics and the P cars are different.

When cost is considered, the M2 for the win because the 718 4.0 is going to cost $20k more base price snd about $30k in actual dollars.

Figure a 911 is going to be $140k-ish with base being $120k

So I had a hard time with the numbers when a fully optioned M2 is $81k. Add M Height Adjustable Suspension and some other bits and you are still under $90k.

Is it a P car? Nope, not even. But it will do 90% of what the P cars will do. When you get to 9/10ths driving it will really matter or on the track. At speeds that don't send you to jail, you are going to have a hard time not seeing the M2 as a good value proposition.

[curtdragon]

If I had to choose one single daily driver I'd get an AWD 911.

If I had to choose a weekend car it would be the M2 or 718

Track only use M2 or 718
High powered street monster M2 or 911 Turbo S 😆

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by sidewaysm2

First of all thanks for the great reply! Is there any way you can put into words how exactly it feels compared to the M2? As mentioned, incomprehensible for me how it can be better haha

When I point the Beamer anywhere it goes there, when I hit the gas pedal it moves, when I break it brakes. The only thing I can imagine to be better is that is accelerates faster, breaks slower and has more grip.

There's a lot more than a car doing what you tell it to do. If you are driving at the limit, you want the car to tell YOU what it's doing.

To generalize:

The M2 steering feel is numb, so you are getting a lot less feel. It's a lot harder to tell how much traction is left in the front tires especially. Because the M2 also has a lot of RWD power, it's also easy to break away the rears while applying power.

So you are at risk of over OR under steering without a lot of warning. This makes it tossable, but also raw and a little dangerous. Without the nannies on, the average driver is probably putting this car into a ditch at least once.

So, you can absolutely point the M2 somewhere and it DOESN'T go there. You have to learn how to manage it using signals other than steering feel. Keep the windows down and listen to the tires, and rely on your "butt dyno."

Until you are used to it, the M2's weight also sneaks up on you in turns with a lot of weight transition. The car can take longer to settle back in than expected, putting you in a tough spot. Elevation changes or chicanes are tricky.

Porsches are best in business at feedback. Using all the info their cars are telling you, you can attune to your car and push it right to the limit with confidence. They tend to be scalpels on turns, immediately settling into turns so you transition quickly.

These are rough generalizations, but hopefully they paint a picture.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

So I had a hard time with the numbers when a fully optioned M2 is $81k. Add M Height Adjustable Suspension and some other bits and you are still under $90k.

I know this is a M2 v Porsche thread, but at $80k+ the M2 really starts to lose the "value" moniker, imo. At $65-70k, absolutely, but $85-$90, not so much. Wait another year and you'll be able to pick up a gently driven Z06 or 718 GT4 for ~$100k.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I know this is a M2 v Porsche thread, but at $80k+ the M2 really starts to lose the "value" moniker, imo. At $65-70k, absolutely, but $85-$90, not so much. Wait another year and you'll be able to pick up a gently driven Z06 or 718 GT4 for ~$100k.

cannot agree more with this point... i know lots of folks here will disagree with this sentiment, but IMHO the car only makes sense under 70k. if you choose to go the "individual" color route, those will hold value much better than standard colors. carbon pack plus individual color gets you to 77- thats the absolute ceiling i could get myself to for this car.

[sanyakim]

Had 718 GTS 2.5 before and now drive g87 M2.
also test drove bunch of 991.1 and 991.2s before choosing the 718.

911 and 718 just feels too "safe".
it controls so well that... it's not very fun.

for me M2 was so much more fun to drive vs the 718 gts or the 991s.

now, if you are talking about gt cars, probably different story.

[sidewaysm2]

Originally Posted by Squidget

There's a lot more than a car doing what you tell it to do. If you are driving at the limit, you want the car to tell YOU what it's doing.

To generalize:

The M2 steering feel is numb, so you are getting a lot less feel. It's a lot harder to tell how much traction is left in the front tires especially. Because the M2 also has a lot of RWD power, it's also easy to break away the rears while applying power.

So you are at risk of over OR under steering without a lot of warning. This makes it tossable, but also raw and a little dangerous. Without the nannies on, the average driver is probably putting this car into a ditch at least once.

So, you can absolutely point the M2 somewhere and it DOESN'T go there. You have to learn how to manage it using signals other than steering feel. Keep the windows down and listen to the tires, and rely on your "butt dyno."

Until you are used to it, the M2's weight also sneaks up on you in turns with a lot of weight transition. The car can take longer to settle back in than expected, putting you in a tough spot. Elevation changes or chicanes are tricky.

Porsches are best in business at feedback. Using all the info their cars are telling you, you can attune to your car and push it right to the limit with confidence. They tend to be scalpels on turns, immediately settling into turns so you transition quickly.

These are rough generalizations, but hopefully they paint a picture.

Thank you so much for this reply! Is the described difference noticeable in daily driving situations or is that stuff that gets more relevant when you truly push the limits?

[OldButSmooth]

Always an interesting comparison, the one certainty is that the M2 remains excellent value for money, and secondly the M2 enjoys a more quality/luxury interior than a stock 718/992.2. This is the thing, I don't think we are worried using our M2's as secondhand value of high mileage Porsches take a considerable hit...pay less, use more, a win win for BMW M2 owners.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

I know this is a M2 v Porsche thread, but at $80k+ the M2 really starts to lose the "value" moniker, imo. At $65-70k, absolutely, but $85-$90, not so much. Wait another year and you'll be able to pick up a gently driven Z06 or 718 GT4 for ~$100k.

But both those cars have drawbacks.

If you are looking for MT then the Z06 is absolutely out. Also, while I actually looked at a Z06, it's really a different car. But now you are comparing a used car with a new BMW.

I agree that the value proposition disappears at $90k. I used $80k because with a 6 speed and all possible options including individual paint puts you at $80k

A Mexican tariff will end the M2 here in the US because the price reaches parity with an M4.

The M2 is definitely a bargain is you buy base.

[fzr100098]

19 minutes in

[beren]

Hard to compare. I sold my 2016 Boxster Black Edition to get my G87 and I have an '88 911. Porsche's are track cars adapted to the street and the G87 is a street car adapted to the track. Both are loads of fun to drive, but the experience is totally different in my opinion. I would also say the G87 is a coupe and the Porsches are "sports cars". Totally different starting points.

I also think the Porsche's have a certain design philosophy that goes over many years and feels historic. Not sure BMW has really done the same. The G87 is a throwback in some way to the design heritage of the brand.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by sidewaysm2

Thank you so much for this reply! Is the described difference noticeable in daily driving situations or is that stuff that gets more relevant when you truly push the limits?

If you drove them back to back on the street, you would be able to *tell* the difference, sure. Especially if you are sensitive to that kind of thing. But would it be a dealbreaker thing? Only for a rare kind of purist.

If you are talking about typical commute city daily driving, there's no *practical* difference. But of course, in that scenario, there's little practical difference between an M2 and an M240i, either.

[Bumpinjeep]

Originally Posted by sidewaysm2

Does anybody have any experience how the G87 compares to cars like the 718 or the 911?

You always hear how Porsche makes near perfect cars, bht after having driven an M2 my mind doesn’t allow much more imagination for what could be better haha

Any thoughts?

I used to work for a Porsche dealer and drove just about everything, 959 included. From my experience, the biggest difference in the Porsche lineup compared to a G87 would be a Boxter. Simply because it's a small open top sports car. I think Porsches come with their own pluses and minuses compared to our cars. The best piece of advice I could offer is to try the BMW Performance School. When you actually get to drive these cars 10/10ths on a track with no fear of other drivers, pedestrians, pot holes, etc., you'll see that today's M cars are absolute monsters. I think the 911 will always hold a special place in my heart because of the job I had growing up, but honestly, the performance envelop on the G87, especially with tires and suspension mods is sky high. Unless you're talking about a GT product from Porsche, I don't see the G87 as being inferior in any way.

[matty_f]

The M2 is an absolute monster and is a near perfect Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde car. With traction on it is very capable and confidence inspiring in the twisties. While it’s a bit heavy, I don’t notice it much until under heavy braking. Dial the traction control back (lots of different levels for every skill) and the torque allows you to spin the rear tires on command. It’s well balanced and easy to control at the limit. I have a few complaints but most are nits you can live with: auto jerks the car in level 3, wish the ride was comfier in comfort,

Porsche is a much more serious car. Mine is a GT3 so it’s maybe an unfair comparison. It’s more precise in the turns, feels more special, it doesn’t pull as hard, but it pulls you back longer. This is the difference in torque and power curves. You can still get the back loose, but I’m not as confident in my skills. My car doesn’t have any adjusts to traction control, it’s either off or on, so playing around can have serious consequences.

I find myself driving the wife’s M2 a lot. It’s just so fun and playful. It’s like a rowdy teenager egging you on to do stupid stuff… no one’s looking, go ahead and drift that on ramp. I don’t do that often in my other car.

Hedonic adaption keeps us chasing new stuff, but the G87 delivers the fun, day after day. Get one and don’t look back.