[natedog7700]

I get flamed hard on Tesla forums/communities so i came here because i know you guys are probably biased towards BMW but also, often times willing to consider other viewpoints and opinions and not just glorify BMW 24/7

I picked up my 2018 Model 3 LR (Performance Tune) on the used market for 25,000$.

I want to talk about the harsh truths no one else talks about, the truth of this car that a lot of critics and “tech guys” dont speak on for one reason or another. I am not trying to complain, just want to get the truth out about these cars coming from a car guy who pays attention to the smaller details. As someone would say, its all about the small things, right?

Ask me anything, i almost purchased a 340I but availability made them harder to find at the time within my budget of under 30,000$ and I was fairly picky about what I wanted. Now days, they are MUCH cheaper and i still consider a 340 after moving on from the Tesla, or maybe a F80 M3 if i can swing it. I used to daily a 2018 Camry as well, great car for DD. I have owned other BMWs, and many Toyotas for daily driving.


None of this has to do with Elon being part of Tesla, i couldn't care less about that tbh. I did NOT buy the car to hug trees and save the planet. I got it for a daily driver despite everything else related to EV and tesla.

Pro's

Value – For the value (mostly used market) 11 second ¼ mile car for under 25,000 is not bad, overall good car for daily driving considering the money

Styling – I think it’s above average, although not perfect by any means, still subjective.

Torque on demand - Power is very generous, great for daily driving getting out in traffic (I pull onto a busy road leaving my house)

No engine to heat up to get 100% of the power – This is amazing for work, and coming home for lunch (I live 2 minutes away)

Heat/AC work immediately – its not much better than gas to be honest, but it is quicker nonetheless.

Dog mode, camp mode etc – don’t really use any of these but it’s a nice feature

*Charges my EcoFlow backup battery*** but only enough to keep my fridge running during power outage – I can only charge it off the 12v lighter socket, unfortunately no bidirectional charging.

***Maintenance is minimal, generally speaking*** – Then again, my steering is squeeky, I think the ball joints are bad, parking brake is unusually loud (actuator may need replacing) and the fan vent speed at full blast will whistle, tires keep losing air, im not sure if this is a low profile tire thing or what, only when very cold out its an issue. My Camry with similar mileage had literally zero issues, ran like a top and everything always worked as it should (and it was previously a rental, added bonus)

**Handling** – Its good, it really is, for the year. It was able to match a M3 around the track, the new 2024 is also able to match a 2024 M3 around willow springs in terms of raw handling. Endurance is a completely different story.
My 2018 could still be better, I don’t think it has as much body roll as people like to say. It rotates well (square setup stock) and it has a tight, playful steering rack. Lateral grip is good and it feels pretty planted through the corners. In my opinion, the chassis doesn’t seem very refined, it tends to get a little uneasy/unsettled when pushed really hard, seems to show a bit of weakness at the very limit. Not being able to turn off the stability.traction control all the way (even in performance trim) is a bit upsetting because the car will constantly slow you down and nanny you into driving straight even if you want the car to rotate well, it just wont give you much before cutting you out and understeering you mid corner.

**Electric is cheaper than gas** - Electric is indeed cheaper than gas, at home. Insurance is twice the amount as my 2018 Camry and that takes about all the savings away.
Also, supercharging got really expensive. Freeway driving is literally about the same cost as my Camry in fuel because the Tesla is so inefficient at speeds 80-85mph and gas is under 3$ a gallon. I spent 16$ to put about 100 real world freeway miles into my car at a supercharger the other day.

Cons:

Charging - No access to level 2 charger at home would make this car very expensive to charge (almost as much as gas, if you were to run exclusively freeway) and very inconvenient. 10/10 would not recommend. To the guys that say “ohh whats 30 minutes, I could stretch my legs anyway” Is inconsiderate of the people who have kids/families, jobs, places to be, things to see etc. its simply not practical to have to wait “30 minutes” more like 40-50 minutes in my experience.

Range – Freeway driving, especially around freezing is abysmal. Bottom line is technology has its limitations and I personally get about 145 (295 rated) real world miles of range around 85-90mph freeway driving (around 32 degrees) on full battery. If you want to keep the charge between 20-80 percent, then you got only 87 miles to work with, unless the conditions are better or I slow down which I hate doing to be honest. Heat pump and newer models have slightly larger battery, okay great so that 145 miles may be like 200 at best. That’s still about 120 miles of “useable” range I guess.

Noise – Yeah its pretty bad. I dropped about 2 to 4 decibels just changing the tires for my pirellis. The new 2024 models are guess what, running new tires and also run about the same decibels quieter than my model! I would guess 90+ percent of the 2024 model being quieter is just tires, I got Pirellis and I laughed when I saw that the new models came equipped with Pirellis! Lots of echo from the glass roof, noise isolation is disappointing.

Cant fully disable traction/stability control – This is a big big disadvantage for me, personally. Maybe not others and I understand that, im not mad at it.

Seat belt – Hate me or not, I like to disable the seatbelt chime. BMWs, Toyotas you can code it off, but not tesla. Bonus points here, Tesla will put me into Park when im at a stop light if I don’t have my seatbelt on. I work 2 minutes form home so I don’t always use it 100% of the time, again this is my personal take but I am not a fan of cars putting me into park when im just in my driveway or in my yard (yes I pull it around to vacuum it every once ina while) and the car goes to park because my seatbelt is on.

Adaptive cruise – Cant defeat or disable it permanently… Why? No reason to not be able to turn this off if one wishes. Cruise control WILL slow you down through corners, so your going 50 in a 45 it may drop to 45 around a very slight bend.

Updates – Im not sure why updates are a good thing, people think its great. Well I think a car should be released with a good software with well thought out features from factory…. I don’t want my car bricked from an update, stuck in an update for 60 minutes so I cant drive, recently a law passed made tesla update cars to not be able to close windows with remote or phone (safety concern) like why is that a good thing. The car will annoy you for an update until you do it like your phone, who turns this kind of thing into such a big advantage because I sure don’t.

Cruise control – No cruise control past 90mph, I don’t like that myself, I understand it wont affect others. Cruise control has also phantom braked on me multiple times in the same spot it just starts decelerating fast on the freeway from say 85 to 65 in a few seconds until I override it.

No Key Fob – They say the key fob doesn’t work like a typical key fob in that it works with Bluetooth so there can be a delay. Well, it would have been nice if I even got one though because they don’t give you one from factory. My phone does not always work, technology doesn’t always work perfect though, who would have guessed? Then im digging for the key card and place it on the center console and it flys off in between the seat. And the key card doesn’t always work perfect either if im being honest, I place it near the spot it should read and like 10% of the time im waving it around to unlock my car. Its silly.
I still have no idea why but my phone usually always works as a key to drive away but 90% of the time does not unlock my door so I just keep the doors unlocked now to avoid fumbling around.

Handles – Motorized door latches is a solution to a problem that didn’t exist, bring back a traditional door handle please. The handle, is not intuitive, cumbersome and can freeze shut “just use the app to unlock the door then” well id rather use the handle though, like its supposed to be used. When I pull the handle, It lags for a split second almost like im yanking on the door and it doesn’t release for a brief moment, then it opens, small complaint but it just doesn’t make sense to me after using it for a while. Imaging pushing on your bedroom door and it just stays shut for a half second before releasing like its sticking, that’s what its like.

No physical buttons – Way to over simplified. I don’t care for cluttery dashes with millions of buttons but the opposite is also not good either. A balance is probably good, like much of life…. This is one of the things I least like about the car as I still like to have a physical lock/unlock, climate controls, glove box release handle etc. WHo thought no buttons was a greta idea anyway?

Dealer network – Not as good as its competitors, not much else to be said here.

Quality – Better than what people say it is from my experience. But my Camry and BMWs were of better quality, not much else to be said here, kind of expected. The trunk leaks when it rains, comes rushing out when i lift the trunk open. Looks like its coming from underneath the bracket.

Comfort - Its sub par at best unfortunatly. Twitchy steering (great for performance) at speed, very harsh, bumpy ride, lots of noise. Comfort is NOT its forte.

Brakes – They are awful, truly worse than my 2018 Camry. Its unacceptable in my opinion but to each their own. Motor brake masks this concern for the average driver IMO.

Insurance – Twice as expensive as my Camry. More expensive than many other cars

Resale – Not great, but neither are a lot of vehicles. Certainly worse than a Toyota

No Bidirectional charge – I have a huge battery backup, why cant they offer a bidirectional kit or option? Disappointing I suppose.

Backup camera – Lags many seconds, even after restart, its worse than my Camry was but just a small little thing to mention.

Summary - Tesla makes a great powertrain at a competitive price for as good value, but they make a terrible car.

[X5MnM3comp]

Hey , this is interesting. I appreciate your transparency on your view points. Can I ask why are you being burned on the Tesla forum being an owner of one? Because you speak the truth? And what kind of feedback are you expecting here or are you just sharing? I’d like to know before proving any thoughts.

[pbonsalb]

I would seriously consider a Plaid. Drove an M3P but the older version that was not as fast and it did not sway me from my modded E90 M3. I sold it for an F90 M5 after 10 years. Plaids were expensive when I bought so I did not consider one, but used examples are cheap now. One of those would spank my modded M5. But I usually keep cars about 10 years so I’ll drive the M5 a few more years while I watch and read about mid size luxury sports sedans. I am starting to follow SUV as well since I may be willing to trade some performance for more comfort and space as I age. Hopefully other car makers will offer some tempting vehicles in the next 5 years.

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by X5MnM3comp

Hey , this is interesting. I appreciate your transparency on your view points. Can I ask why are you being burned on the Tesla forum being an owner of one? Because you speak the truth? And what kind of feedback are you expecting here or are you just sharing? I’d like to know before proving any thoughts.

Hi brother, thats a good question i dont remember a lot to be honest,, and frankly i dont want to talk about it because its just general hate for being honest. Im not saying everyone will see it like me, i dont expect or want that to be the case. below are a few things:

"it doesnt really bother me" (probably does if they worded it like that)
"dont drive 85mph" and your range will improve
"supercharging is only for those who dont have level 2 charging" "30 minutes is not a long wait for fill up"
"you shouldnt want to turn of stability or traciton control or seat belt, it should be permanently on or you would crash"
"updates are great, i got a christmas light show its amazing"
"That was fixed with the new model"
"i dont mind no stalks, it doesnt really bother me anymore"
"well its not a camry, its a tesla"
"brakes are never an issue, i use regen it doesnt need good brakes"
"we dont need a key fob, we use our phone" Great, if it worked as good a key fob (never does, people dont talk about this)

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by pbonsalb

I would seriously consider a Plaid. Drove an M3P but the older version that was not as fast and it did not sway me from my modded E90 M3. I sold it for an F90 M5 after 10 years. Plaids were expensive when I bought so I did not consider one, but used examples are cheap now. One of those would spank my modded M5. But I usually keep cars about 10 years so I’ll drive the M5 a few more years while I watch and read about mid size luxury sports sedans. I am starting to follow SUV as well since I may be willing to trade some performance for more comfort and space as I age. Hopefully other car makers will offer some tempting vehicles in the next 5 years.

I drove a plaid for a day (we rented one) and i did not like it overall, i would rather have a 2024 model 3 performance personally. I could speak on the Plaid but i did not get to own one for over a year so my experience is limited.

[fueledbycaffeine]

The lack of window shade on the glass roof and lack of actual door handles were more than enough for me to not even consider it (on top of at least a dozen other reasons). I use Uber a few times a YEAR when I go to a couple of specific concert venues due to the utter lack of parking and I DREAD it because I almost always wind up in a Tesla.

[DrVenture]

Sounds like a very realistic review to me. I've heard that Tesla owners can be the ultimate fanboys, so not surprise that the slightest critique would be brushed off. I expect that Tesla will have great problems competing with the upcoming products from traditional automakers, who take details seriously.

The biggest issue I have (with all EVs) is that the batteries can make the cars almost disposable, Who is going to spend $20,000 to keep a 10 year old car on the road?

[X5MnM3comp]

Originally Posted by natedog7700

Hi brother, thats a good question i dont remember a lot to be honest,, and frankly i dont want to talk about it because its just general hate for being honest. Im not saying everyone will see it like me, i dont expect or want that to be the case. below are a few things:

"it doesnt really bother me" (probably does if they worded it like that)
"dont drive 85mph" and your range will improve
"supercharging is only for those who dont have level 2 charging" "30 minutes is not a long wait for fill up"
"you shouldnt want to turn of stability or traciton control or seat belt, it should be permanently on or you would crash"
"updates are great, i got a christmas light show its amazing"
"That was fixed with the new model"
"i dont mind no stalks, it doesnt really bother me anymore"
"well its not a camry, its a tesla"
"brakes are never an issue, i use regen it doesnt need good brakes"
"we dont need a key fob, we use our phone" Great, if it worked as good a key fob (never does, people dont talk about this)

Hey nothing wrong with speaking the truth. Only honest feedback can yield improvements. I hear you because I had an opportunity to drive a model 3 for a week as a rental last year. And HONESTLY, I hated it lol. If I had a choice, I’d rather have a Camry. That being said, you have to accept the reality that Tesla is not really a car manufacturer it’s a technology company. Yes they are seem to be the pioneer in tje electrical automobile industry, but Electric motor and self driving technology weren’t new and not something the traditional car manufacturers weren’t working on already. A well rounded car isn’t just about how fast it runs, people don’t buy cars to race, well a few do, people buy them for daily transportation. So drivability, safety, comfortability, technology, user friendliness, and aesthetics etc are all important elements most buyers would value just as much or more than the performance. This is where I see the obvious gap between Tesla and traditional car manufacturers. Elon is an extremely smart businessman who’s not afraid of taking risks, he’s certainly achieved to dominate the market by mass producing their value engineered entry level models. Hence those appear to be exceptionally great value. But the attributes that most modern cars equipped as standards are highly lacking and are very apparent to those above average drivers who care and pay attention to details of car making industry other than the brand name and appearance (trend).

[X5MnM3comp]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

Sounds like a very realistic review to me. I've heard that Tesla owners can be the ultimate fanboys, so not surprise that the slightest critique would be brushed off. I expect that Tesla will have great problems competing with the upcoming products from traditional automakers, who take details seriously.

The biggest issue I have (with all EVs) is that the batteries can make the cars almost disposable, Who is going to spend $20,000 to keep a 10 year old car on the road?

Oh man, I posted my comment below yours and just now read yours. Recognize you from other threads too. Can I just say, great minds do think alike?? 👍😁

[Efthreeoh]

The only Model 3 I have been in is a 2018 MY. It was in 2018, so within its original model year era, meaning it was fresh. I found your comments regarding noise interesting and specifically relating to a MY 2024 version. My experience with that MY 2018 version was I found it cheaply built, spartan inside, and very noisy at highway speed. The cabin noise isolation is terrible. Whether tire noise or suspension isolation or lack of sound insulation materials (I suspect a combination of all three), I found the interior noise raw, loud and irritating. It was completely unrefined for the price point (in 2018). Even worse was rear seat comfort. Because of the battery pack stack under the rear seat caution combined with the high floor height and seatback angle, it was just intolerable to sit in the rear seat longer than 20 minutes.

You didn't mention the UI, but I found it pointless. The 2018 Model 3 has a giant screen in portrait orientation. The map is constantly present. Why? I think most people use their car locally where they are highly familiar with their locality. It should be able to be completely turned off. I found the map constantly on as annoying and distracting.

I agree with the door handles, stupid design. Great drivetrain, but the car that comes with it is not that good. The 3-series is better. My opinion, of course.

Thanks for the thread.

[NSXR]

Man, what a fantastic post. Thanks for writing all that out, I learned a lot! And even though I'll probably leave this world before I own an EV, I still appreciate all the info!

[Slack Beries]

My wife dailies an M3P and it’s totally fine for errands. Our experience with highway range is better than OP’s.

Sore points for me are the harsh suspension and the screen placement dictating the driving info (speed) displays in the center of the dash instead of directly in front of the driver. There’s also no HUD.

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by Slack Beries

My wife dailies an M3P and it’s totally fine for errands. Our experience with highway range is better than OP’s.

Sore points for me are the [B]harsh suspension and the screen placement dictating the driving info (speed) displays in the center of the dash instead of directly in front of the driver. There’s also no HUD

It seems to me that Tesla owners are mostly okay with this. If it were any other car, people would not be so accepting, I think. "Totally fine for errands" makes good sense.

What is your real HWY range?

[DrVenture]

My biggest issue with any EV, or even hybrid, is that battery longevity defines depreciation. Even if you trade/sell every 4-5 years, you are going to take that hit. If you keep past warranty, the cost of battery replacement may well offset any fuel savings.

As an example, if I drive 10,000 miles a year, get 20 MPG (M550) and pay $4/gal for premium (I do). My fuel cost is $2000 annually. in 8 years I spend $16,000. Meanwhile with the Tesla, I am gambling that he battery doesn't need replacement right after warranty (8 years) expires, and costs me $17,000-$21,000 (numbers reported by actual owners with receipts), parts and labor. My thinking is that the warranty is predicated on Tesla knowing that after 8 years, it is a dice roll. Or they'd offer 10, 12, whatever years. And while battery costs MAY go down, I'd bet labor goes up. Plus, you are paying for electricity, FWIW.

The numbers simply do not work for me at this time. A big advance in battery tech could change all of that. In reality, I drive about 3000 miles a year and get 22 MPG (M550), which makes the entire calculation far, far worse. I spend $550 on gas annually. In ten years that is $5500. And I'd still be taking a massive depreciation on an EV. I want to like EVs. I just cannot make the numbers work for me.

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

Sounds like a very realistic review to me. I've heard that Tesla owners can be the ultimate fanboys, so not surprise that the slightest critique would be brushed off. I expect that Tesla will have great problems competing with the upcoming products from traditional automakers, who take details seriously.

The biggest issue I have (with all EVs) is that the batteries can make the cars almost disposable, Who is going to spend $20,000 to keep a 10 year old car on the road?

The great thing about a EV is that it is warrantied, for the first 8 years by law, also transfers owners. My car is a 2018 and my battery will be replaced for free if it has below 70% capacity by or before December 2026. So its a non issue for me, actually made the risk very low on jumping ship

[Slack Beries]

Originally Posted by DrVenture

What is your HWY range?

We consistently get over 225 miles and 3.0 miles/kWh when highway driving at 85 mph. The difference may be due to the newer model’s heat pump and Southern California’s temperatures.

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by Slack Beries

We consistently get over 225 miles and 3.0 miles/kWh when highway driving at 85 mph. The difference may be due to the newer model’s heat pump and Southern California’s temperatures.

225 is fair. I said 200, when i spoke on this in my post, trying to be honest.

Temperature however, for 90% of the rest of the world that experiences winter will see about 30% reduction in range.

225 is also at its 100% capacity, most drivers charge to 80% and try to stay above 20% so every day range is closer to 120 miles. Drop the temperature and thats under 100 miles useable every day range. Tire pressure low because the temperature dropped, reduce another 5% or more in range etc.

This is the worst of it, but again, we live in an imperfect world and some days, are like that. Hopefully one is able to get north of 200 miles of range on the freeway though, unfortunately i don't.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by natedog7700

The great thing about a EV is that it is warrantied, for the first 8 years by law, also transfers owners. My car is a 2018 and my battery will be replaced for free if it has below 70% capacity by or before December 2026. So, it's a non-issue for me, actually made the risk very low on jumping ship

I think the battery longevity issue is really not a concern. From the data I have reviewed, EV batteries, like most electronics, die early up front due to manufacturing/materials defect or have a very long life span as their design intends. The secondary market for EV is where it gets tough. Most ICEV that get to 200,000 miles are sold for a low price to a user base who repairs them in expensively to satisfactory useable condition. Maybe it will be the same for EV, but as I see it now, EV are far less owner-repairable than ICEV and can be dangerous to work on the drivetrain.

[X5MnM3comp]

How do you guys stand the charging time when you’re outside? At the end of my week of rental, per agreement I was supposed to charge the 3 to full or charged $ for the difference. Since there’s a pretty large charging station near my house, I took it there. I reverse parked into tje lane as I quickly copied other drivers there. Came out of the car, grabbed the charger from the post, then I was like , wjere the F do I plug it in???! Several mins later starting to get frustrated I was, another 3 pulled in next to me. I quickly went up to ask the driver hadn’t noticed because of the tinted windows that it was a young woman. I think she thought I was trying to hit on her for using such lame excuse lol. In the end, I spent 3 minutes changing it and said F it, it’s way cheaper than gas for them to charge me for not replenishing the battery.

[Mavus]

Thanks for the great summary of your real world usage experience. For me one of the main issues is cold weather perf and usability esp cold soaked and frozen handles. The screen placement in the center is garbage. I want to be in the cockpit as a driver with easily selectable functions around my hands. New car models that have one large screen and you have to go through multiple layers to enable something is very distracting.

Another topic that folks don’t talk about is that many older and non-tech drivers are not able to operate these new vehicles. There needs to be some sort of training to ensure these folks get familiar with tech evolution.

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by natedog7700

I get flamed hard on Tesla forums/communities so i came here because i know you guys are probably biased towards BMW [...]
I picked up my 2018 Model 3 LR (Performance Tune) on the used market for 25,000$. I want to talk about the harsh truths no one else talks about, the truth of this car that a lot fo critics and “tech guys” dont speak on for one reason or another.

Tesla forums certainly have their share of nuts.
But pound for pound, this place has way more rabid anarchists and anti-EV-at-all-cost weirdos than the other way around. Unless, that is, you run into a vegan...

I generally agree with many of the observations and the sentiments, but will make a few corrections in case anyone is wondering.

• The most under-rated EV feature (for me) is ability to pre-heat or pre-cool the car to your liking on short notice. Any time of the year. That really stands out each time I drive my ICE cars.
• Squeaky steering is, most likely, failing FUCAs (front upper control arms). It's a weak point in Model 3 suspension that usually lasts ~35-50K miles.
  Very easy DIY job, but a job nonetheless.
• Fan speed is liable to whistle if you haven't replaced the HVAC filters (2 of them). A particularly contortionist job in MY'18-19 Model 3s, revised for easier maintenance in subsequent years.
• Stock Model 3 shocks are sh*t, and have minimal travel before hitting bump stops. Once you hit the bump stops, the suspension gets unsettled. Easily upgradable, as it is with BMWs (I highly recommend Ohlin's).
• You can turn TC fully OFF in Performance cars. TM3-Performance also comes with excellent track mode that allows infinite variations of torque transfer between front and rear axles/motors. You can NOT turn TC fully OFF in cheaper trims.
• Brakes are under-sized on non-Performance Model 3's, not that the 99+% of the buyers of those cars will ever notice!
• Tesla (and other commercial DC) SuperChargers are rip-offs. Tesla prices theirs at parity with cost of gasoline per mile, and then jacks the prices up/down depending on time of day, traffic, demand, etc.
• You absolutely have to have access to a home or work L2 chargers to get savings from electricity propulsion. The difference is ~4.5 : 1 in per mile EV cost advantage over gasoline when charging at home.
• Highway driving above 75 mph does consume more energy, as it does with ICE cars. We just don't care as much about mileage as EV drivers do .
• I get ~20% energy consumption penalty when doing 80+mph (allegedly) in an EV. So figure, ~3.5 : 1 in EV per mile cost advantage over gasoline when charging at home.
• I get additional ~5-20% energy consumption penalty when driving in sub-freezing temps, but this number is not a constant. If the battery is warm after spending the night in my garage, the penalty is ~0%. If the battery starts getting too cold, it uses energy to heat itself. The colder, the more energy is consumed, regardless of what temperature you set to maintain inside the cabin.
• You can buy a key fob, though I find that opening the car with cell-phones is far easier and more convenient. I've had 99.9% reliability with iPhones opening Model 3s, a bit more hit and miss with Androids, but keep a backup key card in my wallet anyway.
• Depending on battery chemistry in your car, you may (or may not) want to regularly charge to either 80% (NCA or NCM) or 100% (LFP) of battery capacity. For longer road trips, I charge to 100% without hesitation.
• Normally, I charge my NCM EV (Model 3) to 80% once a week (or longer), and LFP EV (Lexus RZ) to 100% once once a week (or longer). Unless I know I will go somewhere far, then it's 100% for both.

Originally Posted by Slack Beries

My wife dailies an M3P and it’s totally fine for errands. Our experience with highway range is better than OP’s.

Same here.
My wife is the primary Tesla driver, while I default to F80.
Unless it's the winter, then F80 only comes out when the roads are clear and dry.

Originally Posted by Slack Beries

Sore points for me are the harsh suspension and the screen placement dictating the driving info (speed) displays in the center of the dash instead of directly in front of the driver. There’s also no HUD.

I used to feel that way (miss HUD), but got over it and hardly ever look at the center screen.
V1 in line-of-sight is more useful than a speedometer readout, and richness of navigation info on the big screen is far superior to the arrows in BMW HUD when navigating parts unknown.
Everything else in the BMW instrument cluster is superfluous in an EV.

a

[DrVenture]

Originally Posted by Mavus

...
Another topic that folks don’t talk about is that many older and non-tech drivers are not able to operate these new vehicles. There needs to be some sort of training to ensure these folks get familiar with tech evolution.

This is a good point. It isn't just about training, though. As people age, reflexes and vision and multitasking suffer. Even highly tech savvy older folks are not going to want the distraction. But, well designed voice systems may be the answer. Myself, I just need to remember to use it. I love the HUD. An expansion of both those functionalities can go a long way. Finding the massage button is impossible, but "Hey BMW, massage my back" works just fine. And despite people seemingly hating gesture control, I like it for changing volume and changing tracks. I can focus on the road.