[ward]

that's right the hybrid version of the GS competitor to the 5 series


just read the road and track test of the 2, the hybrid GS is only .3 sec behind the 550 to 60 mph

the lexus got 3 mpg better than the 550 in the test

the BMW held .1 g better on the skidpad and was almost 5 mph faster through their slalom

this is the part that cracked me up so much I had to turn the computer back on and post this thread.
the lexus (due to battery placement)
had LESS trunk space than a Z4 ROADSTER

good one lexus, BMW is so done....
all the luxury and all the space for luggage of a 2 seat roadster

[foofighter]

definitely a give and take w/ the hybrid technology...

[BMW F22]

The only thing hybrids are good for is the environment. It doesnt really save that much money when we give it some thoughts. the GS450 gets only 3 miles better??? LOL that's ridiculous. If you factor in the premium you have to pay for hybrids, it's actually cheaper to fill a non-hybrid car up more often.

[younghov85]

I mean what do u expect? BMW (next to Porsche) is the best car company in the world. They have a near perfect blend of luxury, performance and reliability. Companies like Lexus just imitate others. But I can guarentee that the GS450h will sell because of the badge, not because of the actual car.

[foofighter]

Originally Posted by younghov85

will sell because of the badge, not because of the actual car.

hello pot

you gotta be kidding right? over 90% of the 3 series sold here in socal are automatics an have absolutely no clue to the heritage of the BMW name; other than the fact that "it's a BMW" The BMW nameplate is just as big of a status symbol as the Lexus name if not bigger. So who's buying what for the badge and not the cars?

not everyone loves BMW; hell some just down right hate those 3 letters because of the stigma/stereotypes that has developed over the years. Lexus is merely providing an option for the buyers that want some of that performance while being friendly to the environment. I can appreciate that.

[CreoUCLA]

Originally Posted by BMWE90

The only thing hybrids are good for is the environment. It doesnt really save that much money when we give it some thoughts. the GS450 gets only 3 miles better??? LOL that's ridiculous. If you factor in the premium you have to pay for hybrids, it's actually cheaper to fill a non-hybrid car up more often.

Even when you compare a Civic hybrid vs. a base model Civic, it takes nearly 30 years to offset the higher cost of the hybrid, when you use gas prices as the primary criteria.

-Mike-

[younghov85]

Originally Posted by foofighter

hello pot

you gotta be kidding right? over 90% of the 3 series sold here in socal are automatics an have absolutely no clue to the heritage of the BMW name; other than the fact that "it's a BMW" The BMW nameplate is just as big of a status symbol as the Lexus name if not bigger. So who's buying what for the badge and not the cars?

not everyone loves BMW; hell some just down right hate those 3 letters because of the stigma/stereotypes that has developed over the years. Lexus is merely providing an option for the buyers that want some of that performance while being friendly to the environment. I can appreciate that.

I understand what you are saying about the badge thing and BMW being a bigger name than Lexus, but honestly that car alone is only sold because it is a lexus. For example which car has been rated better in every magazine, the M35/M45 or the Lexus GS300/G3430......the M has rose above the GS in almost every category, and almost rising to the class leading 5-series. But between the two which sells more.....GS300/GS430. And there is one obvious reason for these sales and thats because its a Lexus. Dont get me wrong Lexus and Toyota are one of the best companies out here, but they do have their flaws and I feel the new GS is in a way a flaw, by comparison of the older GS to the new GS. The same goes with the GS450h, its a wonderful idea on paper but for its price tag, there is no was I would spend that sort of money just to save gas. But in the long run it will be sucessful simply becasue its a Lexus.

Just my 2 cents.

[tl_boy]

I'm sorry to disagree, with those that think Lexus is not great, as we have owned 2 LS's, one 1997 LS 400 and now a 2004 LS430. Prior to that, my family owned 2 S500 MB, and currently my mom owns a E320.

Lexus is an EXCELLENT car company. It is more reliable than Mercedes for sure, and I would be very surprised if BMW is even close to Lexus' quality. Yes, I own an E90, but both from friends who have owned Bemers as well as various ratings, particularly consumer reports, you will see that Lexus is one of the, if not the most reliable car company. I won't comment too much on BMW just yet, as I heard they did have a 'bad streak' of poor reliablity in many of their early 90's cars, but personally I can't vouch at this point.

However, I'm in a very good position to compare MB to Lexus, and honestly, Lexus blows MB out of the water when it comes to comfort and reliability. My dads second S500, for example, had major engine problems at around 70,000 miles. I remember various odds and ends such as bad A/C, a window wouldn't go down, etc. My mom bought the 2000 E320 and from the first month, her windshield washer tank had a leak. One of her windows stopped going up an down. The A/C controller had to be replaced 3 times. Even the vanity mirror fell off. The battery died on 2 occasions, I ended up having to replace it after a few years. Granted, some of these problems are common amongst all cars, but I can tell you, in the day to day, we just ran into fewer issues with Lexus. I think the only problem we had is my dads LS430 has the folding in and out mirrors like Premium package provides. It did screw up twice, so we fixed it, and just kept that feature off for now.

Lexus is also more comfortable than mercedes and bmw. Even the cheapest lexus, 330 is more comfortable. Its a boat, yes, and thats one reason i bought the e90 for my wife, its a great handling car and a blast to drive, but I gotta give it up to Lexus. There service (they would pickup the car from your home or office, drop off a loaner (another lexus), service it for you (incl. free warranty service and maintenance included), clean it inside and out, and then go back to your location and swap it for the loaner.

At mercedes, we get a ... TOYOTA CAMRY.... ehhh... if my wife did not like BEMERS so much, I would honestly have considered lexus, actually, its my first choice. But now.... after driving the e90 I'm actually getting affection for bmw, and may buy the new m3 when it comes out... but my point in this is LEXUS makes excellent cars when it comes to the stuff that is important on a day to day basis: reliability, service and comfort (not to mention value).

[foofighter]

Do you think these people can see beyond the purchase of their hybrid? I doubt it, it's the preceived feeling that they're doing something positive but arent looking further down the road when it comes to these things that you brought up.

Regardless, it's a niche market that is in vogue nowadays w/ the price of petrol the way it is and that's being reflected by the crazy sales figures Toyota and Honda are having w/ their hybrids.

[Squawks]

A lot of folks here think the exact same way how GM, Ford, and Daimler-Chrysler has been thinking - that "oh, gas will subside a bit and the costs will lower itself." That's why they're all doing so shitty while Honda and Toyota have only been seeing *increases* in sales.

Uhhhh...what if it keeps on going up and only up? Sure, $3.70/gal - wait until it hits European-style $8.00/gal and then *maybe* paying the costly premium of the hybrid might actually save some money.

BMW is actually interesting - it's doing nothing in the domain of hybrids (at least not for its consumers) yet its sales have actually increased relative to previous quarters, unlike our American (failure) counterparts.

[foofighter]

when i was in college my last senior project for my major (environmental science) and my project was on alternative fuel which back in 93/94 was pretty much unspoken. I stumbled across blurp about BMW and their experimentation w/ hydrogen fuel cell and I was truly impressed with that and i truly hope that they can get that moving as we ween ourselves off the the oil.

[younghov85]

I think the first model that will come out as a hydrogen car will be the 750ih. I have seen also that GM is coming out or trying to engineer a H2H. Hydrogen powered H2.

[BMW F22]

Originally Posted by Squawks

A lot of folks here think the exact same way how GM, Ford, and Daimler-Chrysler has been thinking - that "oh, gas will subside a bit and the costs will lower itself." That's why they're all doing so shitty while Honda and Toyota have only been seeing *increases* in sales.

Uhhhh...what if it keeps on going up and only up? Sure, $3.70/gal - wait until it hits European-style $8.00/gal and then *maybe* paying the costly premium of the hybrid might actually save some money.

BMW is actually interesting - it's doing nothing in the domain of hybrids (at least not for its consumers) yet its sales have actually increased relative to previous quarters, unlike our American (failure) counterparts.

I think that even if gas prices do go up to $8/gal., it would take a very long time to offset the premium of the hybrid. I mean we're still paying for gas, we're just getting better mileage out of it. But if it's only 3 miles better per gallon, we cant really justify the cost just yet. Either way, I doubt gas prices will ever go up to $8/gal or else I'd have to ride my bike to work...

[Nikki]

Sorry if someone alreayd mentioned this but, why does the battery affect the trunk space so much? Is it like 6ft long?

[BMW F22]

^ the battery is located behind the rear seats and it's a pretty big one. I think it's about 2 ft long in the prius. They have to lessen the trunk space to compensate for the bulk of the battery.

[Nikki]

hmm, i never knew they were that large. that is really horrible on lexus' part because it isn't an econobox, it's a luxury mid-size sedan that people with families buy.

[Oz]

Anyone got some pics of this car?

I personally don't care about the GS because their designs are so dull/boring and they drive like a boat.

[Greeney]

The 450 is pointless to me.

[EVO_S4]

Originally Posted by ward

that's right the hybrid version of the GS competitor to the 5 series


just read the road and track test of the 2, the hybrid GS is only .3 sec behind the 550 to 60 mph

the lexus got 3 mpg better than the 550 in the test

the BMW held .1 g better on the skidpad and was almost 5 mph faster through their slalom

this is the part that cracked me up so much I had to turn the computer back on and post this thread.
the lexus (due to battery placement)
had LESS trunk space than a Z4 ROADSTER

good one lexus, BMW is so done....
all the luxury and all the space for luggage of a 2 seat roadster

GS450H is suppose to be hybrid and it only get 3MPG better than a 550

[Nikki]

Originally Posted by Oz

Anyone got some pics of this car?

I personally don't care about the GS because their designs are so dull/boring and they drive like a boat.

http://images.163car.com/downloadIma...1219165232.jpg
http://images.163car.com/downloadIma...1219165552.jpg

[Oz]

Originally Posted by Nikki

http://images.163car.com/downloadIma...1219165232.jpg
http://images.163car.com/downloadIma...1219165552.jpg

Thx for finding the pics. It just doesn't do it for me

[CreoUCLA]

Originally Posted by foofighter

when i was in college my last senior project for my major (environmental science) and my project was on alternative fuel which back in 93/94 was pretty much unspoken. I stumbled across blurp about BMW and their experimentation w/ hydrogen fuel cell and I was truly impressed with that and i truly hope that they can get that moving as we ween ourselves off the the oil.

EAD represent! I, personally, am not a big proponent/fan of hybrid technology either knowing what I know. I'd rather see more investment in biodiesel. Fuel cells/Hydrogen power is what I would like to see now, but current technological/infrastructure/political limitations means that it still has a long way to go. I still haven't had a chance to go to the California Fuel Cell Partnership (http://www.cafcp.org) in Sacramento where they are testing a host of different fuel cell/hydrogen powered cars from various manufacturers, but I will soon.

-Mike-