Interesting thread on PistonHeads about modern diesels...

toxicnerve · 10-18-2010, 09:31 AM

HERE

What do you guys think? £1,000 per injector + labour sounds pretty scary to me!

dxb335d · 10-18-2010, 09:41 AM

Ive not read the link!

But all I can say is that PH is poisoned by a select few diesel haters, who publicly bash on diesels and their owners and poison non haters with there drivelly BULLSHIT.

BMW 335d injector is approx 250, NOT 1k.

dxb335d · 10-18-2010, 09:46 AM

Reason's old diesels end up UNRELIABE is poor maintenance.

Jeff123 · 10-18-2010, 09:46 AM

Just continue with the BMW warranty.

briers · 10-18-2010, 10:02 AM

And it's rubbish to say petrols are immune

The latest breed of petrol engines also use higher pressure fuel pumps and piezo injectors

dxb335d · 10-18-2010, 10:03 AM

And have failed more than their diesel counterparts!

toxicnerve · 10-18-2010, 10:33 AM

Carlos,

Where are you getting your injector pricing info from? I have no frame of reference as I've never had to have one changed.

AlwynMike · 10-18-2010, 11:00 AM

EuroCarParts quoting either £135 or £239 per injector (330d)
IF they come out without snapping, then it's a quick job. Otherwise it's not

Can't recall if they need coding to the car though.

dxb335d · 10-18-2010, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Carlos,

Where are you getting your injector pricing info from? I have no frame of reference as I've never had to have one changed.

From discussions with BMW mate! Long time ago though.

Hotcoupe · 10-18-2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

HERE

What do you guys think? £1,000 per injector + labour sounds pretty scary to me!

Yes I read that story and immediately rang BMW to ask for a valuation, it goes tomorrow!

toxicnerve · 10-18-2010, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

Yes I read that story and immediately rang BMW to ask for a valuation, it goes tomorrow!

Are you taking the piss or being serious?

The problem is modern engines are just insanely complex, my understanding is that modern petrol engines also use these fancy piezo injectors and they cost shit loads.

Also, I believe injectors do need coding...so another cost to think of.

dxb335d · 10-18-2010, 12:36 PM

Lets compare reliability of the 335i and 335d.

G82Dude · 10-18-2010, 12:38 PM

I liked the comment about "put the nail in the coffin of diesels in cars". I mean, what narrow minded thinking is that? It's like saying that the only car engine in the world should be a 35d!

Hmmm, I'll ask a mechanic I know on respective VAG/BMW pumps and injector parts and report back...

toxicnerve · 10-18-2010, 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke92dude

I liked the comment about "put the nail in the coffin of diesels in cars". I mean, what narrow minded thinking is that? It's like saying that the only car engine in the world should be a 35d!

Quite, the guys on PH are pretty sound generally but they can be a fickle bunch!

Quote:

Originally Posted by uke92dude

Hmmm, I'll ask a mechanic I know on respective VAG/BMW pumps and injector parts and report back...

Please do, I'd be interested to hear back.

Hotcoupe · 10-18-2010, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by toxicnerve

Are you taking the piss or being serious?

The problem is modern engines are just insanely complex, my understanding is that modern petrol engines also use these fancy piezo injectors and they cost shit loads.

Also, I believe injectors do need coding...so another cost to think of.

Tongue firmly in cheek Toxic

I'm now on my second 35D and not had any problems to date, nor heard of any problems as mentioned in the PH thread, but that's not to say they have not happened.
As Carl has stated the petrol E9x's seem to have suffered more reliability issues then the diesel's.

In saying all the above I would not own any BMW without a warranty in place for all those reasons, not worth the risk.

F31-340i · 10-18-2010, 01:13 PM

Injectors can be very expensive - but replacement is not the only option. BMW wanted about £600 to replace one I think. On my last 330d I had them all refurbed after 1 went out of tolerance after 122k miles - cost about £80 each to replace some specific parts (the nozzles) I think. This was possible as they are Bosch parts and I used a well known Bristol specialist who I can recommend.

It was still going strong when I sold it at 157k miles.

(the reason for doing all 6 was that a lot of the labour was to remove/replace manifold etc., so once in there I decided it was cost effective to do them all at the same time).

Tunna_uk · 10-18-2010, 02:33 PM

what about HGV and plant. We need diesel power. But I agree petrol and diesel repair costs are ramping up with same pace as technology

Em135eye · 10-18-2010, 02:48 PM

The most amusing thing is when some gimp in a 1.6 Focus or 1.1 106 tries to give the impression he's more of a proper enthusiast compared to a 330d/335d owner because he drives a petrol.

dxb335d · 10-18-2010, 03:03 PM

Yeah Mate I know what ya mean. I had some
knob on there tell me once he would rather his 1.2 corsa
than a 335d! PMSL

HighlandPete · 10-18-2010, 05:09 PM

I've worked on diesel and petrol engines, on and off, for over 40 years, we have lost the simplicity and are into new territory these days. Diesel longevity is still open to debate, running costs are proving to be higher than many anticipate.

I know injectors are the thrust of the debate, in some quarters, but they are now to such high precision and complexity that if performance tails off, then they can't be ignored.

But as said, petrol engine technology is also making for a complex engine, so costs will rise for them as well.

Difficulty for many will be a bit further down the road, when more engines reach higher mileage, users will get hit hard as most fixes will be outside the DIY sector.

But this is all part of the price of progress. Personally, even with my background, I'm for running a warranty on modern engines. I don't really want an older motor and the real possibility of throwing good money after bad.

HighlandPete

NFS · 10-19-2010, 02:15 AM

It's nothing to do with diesel vs petrol.

The problem is that legislation focuses on reduction in fossil fuel use. As a result engines (regardless of fuel) are becoming hugely complex.

This brings forward their obsolescence because they become uneconomical to maintain after relatively few years.

Ironically, this actually increases emissions from transport, because manufacture of a new car has the same impact as the first 100,000 miles.

toxicnerve · 10-19-2010, 02:19 AM

NFS,

I don't doubt that, the PistonHeads debate is mired in (anti-diesel) bias but the overall points they make are sound and I think some of them actually agree with what you've just said.

My point is, I bought my car thinking "reliable German, should last me a while". But if in a couple of years time it starts chucking out 4-figure bills for injectors, HPFP etc then it will be completely uneconomical and I'll end up getting rid.

I suppose I can take out an extended warranty but they have all kinds of stupid limitations and clauses do they not?

10-18-2010, 09:31 AM	#1
toxicnerve Colonel 97 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	Interesting thread on PistonHeads about modern diesels... HERE What do you guys think? £1,000 per injector + labour sounds pretty scary to me!
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10-18-2010, 09:41 AM	#2
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 951 Rep 29,345 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	Ive not read the link! But all I can say is that PH is poisoned by a select few diesel haters, who publicly bash on diesels and their owners and poison non haters with there drivelly BULLSHIT. BMW 335d injector is approx 250, NOT 1k. __________________ 997.2 GT3
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10-18-2010, 09:46 AM	#3
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 951 Rep 29,345 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	Reason's old diesels end up UNRELIABE is poor maintenance. __________________ 997.2 GT3
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10-18-2010, 09:46 AM	#4
Jeff123 Jeff 319 Rep 1,451 Posts Drives: 330d M Sport x-drive F30 Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Yorkshire iTrader: (0)	Just continue with the BMW warranty.
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10-18-2010, 10:02 AM	#5
briers Ben 62 Rep 1,992 Posts Drives: Tesla p85d Join Date: May 2010 Location: Midlands,UK iTrader: (0)	And it's rubbish to say petrols are immune The latest breed of petrol engines also use higher pressure fuel pumps and piezo injectors
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10-18-2010, 10:03 AM	#6
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 951 Rep 29,345 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	And have failed more than their diesel counterparts! __________________ 997.2 GT3
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10-18-2010, 10:33 AM	#7
toxicnerve Colonel 97 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	Carlos, Where are you getting your injector pricing info from? I have no frame of reference as I've never had to have one changed.
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10-18-2010, 11:00 AM	#8
AlwynMike Lieutenant Colonel 337 Rep 1,661 Posts Drives: F36 440i GC. Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Lincolnshire Flatlands iTrader: (1)	EuroCarParts quoting either £135 or £239 per injector (330d) IF they come out without snapping, then it's a quick job. Otherwise it's not Can't recall if they need coding to the car though.
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10-18-2010, 12:36 PM	#12
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 951 Rep 29,345 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	Lets compare reliability of the 335i and 335d. __________________ 997.2 GT3
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10-18-2010, 12:38 PM	#13
G82Dude - 294 Rep 2,602 Posts Drives: M4CMxD Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Earth iTrader: (0)	I liked the comment about "put the nail in the coffin of diesels in cars". I mean, what narrow minded thinking is that? It's like saying that the only car engine in the world should be a 35d! Hmmm, I'll ask a mechanic I know on respective VAG/BMW pumps and injector parts and report back...
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10-18-2010, 01:13 PM	#16
F31-340i Colonel 156 Rep 2,475 Posts Drives: BMW 340i Touring Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ... iTrader: (1)	Injectors can be very expensive - but replacement is not the only option. BMW wanted about £600 to replace one I think. On my last 330d I had them all refurbed after 1 went out of tolerance after 122k miles - cost about £80 each to replace some specific parts (the nozzles) I think. This was possible as they are Bosch parts and I used a well known Bristol specialist who I can recommend. It was still going strong when I sold it at 157k miles. (the reason for doing all 6 was that a lot of the labour was to remove/replace manifold etc., so once in there I decided it was cost effective to do them all at the same time).
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10-18-2010, 02:33 PM	#17
Tunna_uk Captain 72 Rep 797 Posts Drives: BMW 320d Le Mans Blue Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Teesside UK iTrader: (0) Garage List E90 BMW 325i M Sport [0.00]	what about HGV and plant. We need diesel power. But I agree petrol and diesel repair costs are ramping up with same pace as technology
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10-18-2010, 02:48 PM	#18
Em135eye Banned 175 Rep 4,302 Posts Drives: M135i Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: South West iTrader: (0) Garage List 2014 BMW M135i 5 door [0.00]	The most amusing thing is when some gimp in a 1.6 Focus or 1.1 106 tries to give the impression he's more of a proper enthusiast compared to a 330d/335d owner because he drives a petrol.
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10-18-2010, 03:03 PM	#19
dxb335d The Tarmac Terrorist 951 Rep 29,345 Posts Drives: 997.2 GT3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: ''Fandango Towers'' iTrader: (3) Garage List 2010 Porsche 997.2 GT3 [9.50] 2003 BMW E46 M3 [6.00] 2007 BMW E92 335D [5.50]	Yeah Mate I know what ya mean. I had some knob on there tell me once he would rather his 1.2 corsa than a 335d! PMSL __________________ 997.2 GT3
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10-18-2010, 05:09 PM	#20
HighlandPete Lieutenant General 6659 Rep 15,858 Posts Drives: BMW F11 535i Touring Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Scotland, Highland Region iTrader: (0)	I've worked on diesel and petrol engines, on and off, for over 40 years, we have lost the simplicity and are into new territory these days. Diesel longevity is still open to debate, running costs are proving to be higher than many anticipate. I know injectors are the thrust of the debate, in some quarters, but they are now to such high precision and complexity that if performance tails off, then they can't be ignored. But as said, petrol engine technology is also making for a complex engine, so costs will rise for them as well. Difficulty for many will be a bit further down the road, when more engines reach higher mileage, users will get hit hard as most fixes will be outside the DIY sector. But this is all part of the price of progress. Personally, even with my background, I'm for running a warranty on modern engines. I don't really want an older motor and the real possibility of throwing good money after bad. HighlandPete
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10-19-2010, 02:15 AM	#21
NFS Major General 275 Rep 9,218 Posts Drives: M340i Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: UK iTrader: (0)	It's nothing to do with diesel vs petrol. The problem is that legislation focuses on reduction in fossil fuel use. As a result engines (regardless of fuel) are becoming hugely complex. This brings forward their obsolescence because they become uneconomical to maintain after relatively few years. Ironically, this actually increases emissions from transport, because manufacture of a new car has the same impact as the first 100,000 miles.
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10-19-2010, 02:19 AM	#22
toxicnerve Colonel 97 Rep 2,834 Posts Drives: E92 335d M-Sport Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: UK iTrader: (2)	NFS, I don't doubt that, the PistonHeads debate is mired in (anti-diesel) bias but the overall points they make are sound and I think some of them actually agree with what you've just said. My point is, I bought my car thinking "reliable German, should last me a while". But if in a couple of years time it starts chucking out 4-figure bills for injectors, HPFP etc then it will be completely uneconomical and I'll end up getting rid. I suppose I can take out an extended warranty but they have all kinds of stupid limitations and clauses do they not?
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