[TheRox]

What would happen if (many years down the line) I had a mechanic remove my turbo's...would the car run as a naturally aspirated one?

What would the HP/torque be?

[Blubaron79]

Your car wouldn't run, so 0 HP.

[reprod]

I'm fairly certain that the N54 engine was built with the sole purpose of turbo-charging. It is not just a simple N52 with turbo's added. Things are much more complex.

[TheRox]

Hmm...so I have to get the turbos serviced out of warranty then

I thought a turbo engine was an engine block with turbos...and an intercooler. Otherwise same as naturally aspirated.

[youngnastyman]

why?

[Blubaron79]

Originally Posted by TheRox

Hmm...so I have to get the turbos serviced out of warranty then

I thought a turbo engine was an engine block with turbos...and an intercooler. Otherwise same as naturally aspirated.

Extend your warranty if you are worried. If your car is serviced correctly, the turbos could last over 200k miles. However, most people don't keep cars that long.

[carve]

You could probably get it to run, but the computer would be very unhappy and you'd probably run into lots of little problems. By the time anyone tried something like this, the car would have to be down in the LeMons price range, and have a totally kludged on port fuel injection system.

I think a new turbo is like $700 or so.

[mike-y]

mechanically, yeah, it's just an engine, but it's built specifically for a turbocharged application, which usually means lower compression, and different camshaft profiles over an NA version. The electronics, including the fuel and timing curve is totally different. It *might* run without the turbos hooked up, but it would run like crap.

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by mike-y

mechanically, yeah, it's just an engine, but it's built specifically for a turbocharged application, which usually means lower compression, and different camshaft profiles over an NA version. The electronics, including the fuel and timing curve is totally different. It *might* run without the turbos hooked up, but it would run like crap.

Yea I just spoke to a friend.

The compression ratio in turbo engines is a lot less than normal. So guess that means I gotta keep replacing the turbos.

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by Blubaron79

Extend your warranty if you are worried. If your car is serviced correctly, the turbos could last over 200k miles. However, most people don't keep cars that long.

Yea I will extend it...I doubt i'll put more than 200 K km on this car in 10 yrs.

I was just thinking from a mechanical standpoint, was rather curious. Thats all!

[carve]

The compression ratio in this engine is very high for a turbocharged design. I think it's ~10.4:1. Most non-turbo cars weren't that high just a few years back.

But yeah- as soon as the computer is expecting boost, and none is there, it'll probably go into some kind of limp mode. Then you wind up trying to reverse-engineer the control system and come up with work-arounds.

Cam profile wouldn't be ideal either, but it would still run.

[TheRox]

Originally Posted by carve

The compression ratio in this engine is very high for a turbocharged design. I think it's ~10.4:1. Most non-turbo cars weren't that high just a few years back.

But yeah- as soon as the computer is expecting boost, and none is there, it'll probably go into some kind of limp mode. Then you wind up trying to reverse-engineer the control system and come up with work-arounds.

Cam profile wouldn't be ideal either, but it would still run.

Thats probably because we don't run much boost on our N54's (stock), what are we? 8 psi? max

[idrift4wd]

procede has a N/A mode where it runs just like a naturally aspirated car.

theres a video of it on youtube

[kmoghadam]

quoting wikipedia: "the engine block of the N54B30 is similar to the older generation BMW M54B30 engine - all aluminum with cast iron cylinder liners. This is because the newer N52 aluminum-magnesium engine block was not deemed as suitable for turbo-charging with the above-mentioned engineering goals. As a result, the N54B30 is physically heavier (195 kg (430 lb)) than the very light (161 kg (355 lb)) N52 engine. This also explains why the engine block size is identical to the older M54B30 at 2979 cc/181 in³ instead of the 2996 cc/182 in³ of the new N52B30 3.0L engine.:

So it's nothing like an N52 with two turbos slapped on.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by TheRox

Hmm...so I have to get the turbos serviced out of warranty then

I thought a turbo engine was an engine block with turbos...and an intercooler. Otherwise same as naturally aspirated.

They're not that expensive to replace, only around $6500. Actually, that price should have come down as the lemoned 335's grow and there are more parts and people who work on these cars.

[timmahh]

Why wouldn't you be able to it w/o turbos? You would need to make modifications of course, but it would work I bet. The turbos aren't doing any forced induction when the car is idling. They don't really spool up when the car is in neutral.. and the engine still runs.

My subaru went into limp mode once, the car just kept the wastegate open so the turbo couldn't spool up. The engine itself ran fine, but low compression and no turbo = slowness.


Does the 335 not use variable/dynamic air/fuel/timing ratios? Is it a static map programmed that says "... at xxxx rpm the car will have x psi of boost and require x fuel" ? Or is it constantly metering the conditions present? Me thinks it would be the latter of the two..

[scrufy]

Originally Posted by mike-y

mechanically, yeah, it's just an engine, but it's built specifically for a turbocharged application, which usually means lower compression, and different camshaft profiles over an NA version. The electronics, including the fuel and timing curve is totally different. It *might* run without the turbos hooked up, but it would run like crap.

Yup, it would run but with low compression you wouldn't have much power. Good news is you could run regular gas now.. haha..
The computer would give you a bunch of codes when it tried to make boost and didn't get it and hell, maybe the thing would self destruct from trying to advance the timing ? ^^above post is prolly right but I don't know BMW that well yet... so I'm just stating the other possibilities.
Either way, you could simply get a 328 ECU and it would probably (probably but I have no idea) connect up to the harness. You could also just get a new wiring harness from a 328i out of a wrecking yard, strip your interior and lay the new wiring in.
lol...
Why not just buy an extended warranty if your willing to go to the trouble of removing the turbos ?
Oh, lets not forget about welding up a bypass and seal the exhaust as well...
lol

Hey why not just get it into limp mode and leave it there?

[scrufy]

Originally Posted by TheRox

Thats probably because we don't run much boost on our N54's (stock), what are we? 8 psi? max

I think maybe it has more to do with precision injection and timing curve and you can get away with a lot using cam overlap etc.. but yeah, I'm surprised to see that high. I would have thought 8 or 9 to 1

[jopa489]

I know you're talking hypothetical here, but if very long term (10 year/200,000km) maintenance costs were a priority for you, the 335 may not be the right car. Aside from common issues (HPFP, injectors, etc), FI engines don't last as long as NA engines by nature. If you keep up with maintenance and get the extended warranty you'll be fine. But as you well know, out of pocket repairs on these cars get very expensive very quickly.

[ChasVS]

You'd be better off swapping a used 328 engine and electronics into your 335 than try to get it to run w/o the turbos.

[Brey335i]

This thread is unbelievable. It would cost you more to have the mechanic remove your turbos and get the engine to run fine than the hit you would take from switching to a 328i

[IancoleTX]

Your mechanic would laugh in your face. This will never happen.

/thread