[010101]

The M5 is over all a pretty decent car with an amazing engine, but it was only offered with that clunky SMG tranny. For me this would be a deal breaker. So now they offer one in manual which would be great, but they made the traction control on these cars impossible to turn off!! You can't turn off the traction control on an M? Are you f***ing kidding me?

watch this:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=119784

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by 010101

The M5 is over all a pretty decent car with an amazing engine, but it was only offered with that clunky SMG tranny. For me this would be a deal breaker. So now they offer one in manual which would be great, but they made the traction control on these cars impossible to turn off!! You can't turn off the traction control on an M? Are you f***ing kidding me?

watch this:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=119784

with 500 HP if you turn it off you go straight to the Moon...

[schneid4323]

ouch.....

[nlakind]

I wouldn't buy an M5 for the traction control issue...& I know at least 3 people who were plannign on buying it until they heard that it's impossible to turn off...

[SpecC]

the reason i think they offer automatic only is the same reason the MacLaren SLR is in automatic only.

THE TRANSMISSION ISNT STRONG ENOUGH TO HANDLE THE TORQUES

[Bimmerista]

Originally Posted by SpecC

the reason i think they offer automatic only is the same reason the MacLaren SLR is in automatic only.

THE TRANSMISSION ISNT STRONG ENOUGH TO HANDLE THE TORQUES

It is - it's not a question of the tranny breaking, its a question of grip-if you floor the M5 without traction control all you would get is tire smoke and about 2 inches of forward progress..........It's the trade off for stupid amount of power/torque applied to the car. With the computer-controlled smg the starts were programmed to occur at the edge of the possible grip limit. Without the computer interface bcs no smg, BMW had no choice but to fall back upon the traction control as the ultimate barrier between lead foot and wheel rim.

[dhmilosr]

I think we dealing with a simple matter of physics. The contact patch provided by the tires and the weight of the M5 don't have a static friction force threshold high enough to withstand the power generated by the engine. So, to put it more simply, you would break the tires loose all the time, usually at the worst time, like accelerating through a corner too fast. In addition, maximum acceleration is provided when there is 100% traction with the road surface, rather than the wild wheel spinning that would happen without traction control. Its the same principle as anti-lock brakes, only in reverse.

A computer can simply respond quicker than ANY human being in keeping the car under control. This allows the driver to put the petal to the metal and let the car determine when it is at its limit. With only 300 HP and 300 pound/feet of torque in my 335, I can break the tires loose and would be doing donuts at intersections without my blessed traction control. (This actually happened in my Mustang GT, twice!)

Now obviously the M5 would have bigger tires than the 335i, thus allowing in perfect conditions more horsepower to be applied and achieving a higher rate of acceleration. But even in those perfect conditions the traction control would be your friend, watching out incase you make the slightest little mistake.

I know Car & Driver magazine made a big deal about the TC issue, but they're so stupid they still can't handle the I-Drive, and so backward they dont like the start button and long for the days of the ignition key.

[010101]

Yeah... traction control is great.. but not being able to turn it off on a performance car is just plain stupid. The Enzo breaks its tires loose all the time too. The traction control is a great thing to have, but it's not something you should be forced to use in an M car.

[FirstClass]

The car/engine was designed for seven gears, not six. Plus SMG changes faster than any human can, so SMG is faster and more reliable. The only advantage the 6MT has is fun.

[SpecC]

do you really want to be donuting ALL the time? it's pretty hard to nail down all those horses at the same time without shredding your tires to bits

[010101]

Originally Posted by SpecC

do you really want to be donuting ALL the time? it's pretty hard to nail down all those horses at the same time without shredding your tires to bits

What's with the capital ALL? Even if I never wanted to take the traction control off I would like to at least have the ability to. Traction control that doesn't turn off is for old women in Lexuses not sports cars. How ridiculous is it to buy a $90k sports car with 500 HP and not be able to hang the tail out around a corner if you WANT to?

[jtown]

Seriously ... an M5 with it's nuts cut off. Awesome.

[ChineseGuy]

Originally Posted by FirstClass

The car/engine was designed for seven gears, not six. Plus SMG changes faster than any human can, so SMG is faster and more reliable. The only advantage the 6MT has is fun.

faster in striaght, but you lose the ability to do heel-to-toe when cornering....

[MWcoupe]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M...9534QQrdZ1#img

6spd m5

[vAnt826]

I don't blame BMW.

They are only making 2000 M5s with a manual tranny, the people who are really deadset on a manual M5 won't care enough for the TCS off. Why waste money making a new tranny with such a low production number.

Hell I rarely turn my DCS off in my 335i. DTM (or whatever) is the only thing I can do sanely here in wet Seattle.

The final word here is if you don't like it, don't buy it.

I blame the Americans for complaing all the time for a manual! I'd rather not have it released period.

[010101]

Originally Posted by vAnt826

I don't blame BMW.

They are only making 2000 M5s with a manual tranny, the people who are really deadset on a manual M5 won't care enough for the TCS off. Why waste money making a new tranny with such a low production number.

Hell I rarely turn my DCS off in my 335i. DTM (or whatever) is the only thing I can do sanely here in wet Seattle.

The final word here is if you don't like it, don't buy it.

I blame the Americans for complaing all the time for a manual! I'd rather not have it released period.

Wow so it's really that simple? Here on automotive forums people discuss cars. Positive things about them as well as negative. I never had any intention of buying this thing in the first place. I was just pointing out the sad direction BMW keeps going. More unnecessary electronics that get in the way of driving, more bulk, more weight... These are not traits of "The Ultimate Driving Machine." I've owned BMWs in the past and they are excellent cars. It's unfortunate that they are becoming less and less attractive to real driving enthusiasts.

Since you don't like manuals in the first place I don't understand your comment about how people who want them won't care about not being able to disable the TC. The type of person who wants a manual will not like this. That video proves at least a few people other than me think that.

As for not releasing a manual at all... have you ever driven a BMW SMG equipped car? SMG is one of the clunkiest hard to live with trannies available. BMW dealers have told me how people often buy them and trade them in a few months later because they are so annoyed with them. BMW was so close to making a great car with the M5, but it was stuck with this horrible tranny. They have now remedied that problem only to give it another worse problem. It seems they will never give us another truly great undiluted car.

[Viral]

Originally Posted by 010101

The M5 is over all a pretty decent car with an amazing engine, but it was only offered with that clunky SMG tranny. For me this would be a deal breaker. So now they offer one in manual which would be great, but they made the traction control on these cars impossible to turn off!! You can't turn off the traction control on an M? Are you f***ing kidding me?

watch this:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=119784

Oh, I get it........so THAT'S why you're not buying an M5. I hope you'll get your deposit back, assuming you were ACTUALLY going to buy the car, but the tranny issue is now a "deal breaker".

[Josh49]

It should give you the option to turn it off. I don't care if you have to sign 5 lines on idrive, take a breathalyzer, a polygraph test, and give a urine specimen to turn the system off, the option should be there for track days and such. I know at the track I couldn't do sh!t with DSC on.

[0700700]

Originally Posted by Josh49

It should give you the option to turn it off. I don't care if you have to sign 5 lines on idrive, take a breathalyzer, a polygraph test, and give a urine specimen to turn the system off, the option should be there for track days and such. I know at the track I couldn't do sh!t with DSC on.

there will be a way soon... but it will be quite costly

[FirstClass]

Originally Posted by ChineseGuy

faster in striaght, but you lose the ability to do heel-to-toe when cornering....

The car does it for you faster than you ever could...

Originally Posted by 010101

As for not releasing a manual at all... have you ever driven a BMW SMG equipped car? SMG is one of the clunkiest hard to live with trannies available. BMW dealers have told me how people often buy them and trade them in a few months later because they are so annoyed with them. BMW was so close to making a great car with the M5, but it was stuck with this horrible tranny. They have now remedied that problem only to give it another worse problem. It seems they will never give us another truly great undiluted car.

Undiluted is not the future of cars. Undiluted usually means slow. Just like the M5, 6MT = slower than SMG. Humans can't beat machines. If you can sense the slip of all 4 wheels at once and adjust power braking, etc. accordingly be my guest. The argument against SMG is like the arguments about ABS back in the day. "Real driving enthusiasts" will say they dont' need it, but the people who have it will always be faster.

[vAnt826]

Originally Posted by 010101

Wow so it's really that simple? Here on automotive forums people discuss cars. Positive things about them as well as negative. I never had any intention of buying this thing in the first place. I was just pointing out the sad direction BMW keeps going. More unnecessary electronics that get in the way of driving, more bulk, more weight... These are not traits of "The Ultimate Driving Machine." I've owned BMWs in the past and they are excellent cars. It's unfortunate that they are becoming less and less attractive to real driving enthusiasts.

Since you don't like manuals in the first place I don't understand your comment about how people who want them won't care about not being able to disable the TC. The type of person who wants a manual will not like this. That video proves at least a few people other than me think that.

As for not releasing a manual at all... have you ever driven a BMW SMG equipped car? SMG is one of the clunkiest hard to live with trannies available. BMW dealers have told me how people often buy them and trade them in a few months later because they are so annoyed with them. BMW was so close to making a great car with the M5, but it was stuck with this horrible tranny. They have now remedied that problem only to give it another worse problem. It seems they will never give us another truly great undiluted car.

Thats funny, the M3 E46 SMG didn't bother me when I was driving it for a week.

I like how you mention how I don't like manuals, since all my cars are manuals (including the 335i). I drive a manual everyday for over 40 miles, I honestly don't care if I can't disable TCS completely as long as it has looser setting. I guess I'm one of those special rare few.

BMW designed the E60 M5 to strictly go with the SMG, it was never meant to be a manual. Why can't you understand that they just made these 2000 M5 for those hard pressed US people?

Who are you to say how those 2000 M5 owners will drive? You don't even live in its main market! For me I think that they are older richer BMW lovers who could care less about breaking their back to drive the car hard, but thats my opinion and BMW's. I can't see why you would care, go back to your AMG fanboy land all you do here is talk shit about BMW. Go waste your time somewhere else.

[010101]

Originally Posted by Viral

Oh, I get it........so THAT'S why you're not buying an M5. I hope you'll get your deposit back, assuming you were ACTUALLY going to buy the car, but the tranny issue is now a "deal breaker".

I said it "would be" a deal breaker. I didn't say that it "is" one. I never pretended to be in the market for an M5. Am I not allowed to make comments about cars I'm not interested in buying? Read some more threads in this forum. You will be making a lot more comments like that one.