[BTTGMan]

Just got mine reduced to five over and zero points, down from a piddly 18 over and 3 points. Judge didn't even ask what happened and didn't care. Cop offered it up front before we walked in. I bantered to see how he'd respond to my arguments I'd be making in court. Decided I'd take the known risk and agreed to the settlement.

Always fight your tickets no matter what. Woman in front of me admitted guilty and still got same thing (though she was from the little town and apparently knew them all).

[John 070]

That's PA, I've heard similar stories. But I think it's not the case in NJ or CT, from what I've heard. And if you have to take time off from work, it's never worth it imho.

See, the thing is, people don't know how insurance works. If you get one ticket in PA, your rates will not go up--that's per PA statute. If you want me to find it, I can probably do it later and copy/paste. My friend fought a ticket in NJ--it got changed to a non moving violation which is wonderful, but, the price also multiplied into the $300 range, when it was under $100 to begin with, and, he lost a day of work.

What would be interesting to know in your case, was your record clean? If not, then you would be the first I've heard of who didn't have a clean record and got it knocked down to 5 over.

5 over is 0 points for DMV--do not confuse it with insurance points. But, I can tell you as well, 6 mos. from now if you pull your driving history, you WILL NOT see anything on it for the 5 over.

[BTTGMan]

I always got similar treatment in ma.

The DMV points are as much an issue as insurance points. Once you get one ticket a bad streak of luck can get you suspended pretty quick.

I haven't had a ticket in a few years (thank you escort) though I had a handful. I now know to watch out for robic lines in the road on two lane highways. F'ing robic is a joke. Can't believe they use it. Pa weird.

Cop told me he didn't pull my record . Asked how bad my points were, but unless I was near suspension already he said He was willing to deal.

[John 070]

Seriously, people treat insurance (even on this forum where people seem to uncover a lot that ordinary people would not) as a mystery.

It's not mysterious at all. If you get one moving violation in PA, you will not get an insurance surcharge. what you can get, depending, is a license suspension for your 2nd offense, if the points add up to 6.

No surcharge, well, that's not the insurance co's decision, that's the statute. We'd have to look at the schedule, but most likely if you got x over, it's not worth your while when you factor in no insurance surcharge and losing time from work. x may be 11 to 21.

5 mph over I'm going to guess is a $12x fine. Let's say you get 14 over and it's $150 (I'm making it up, the exact number is on the web), is it worth it to save $25 to $30 by showing up? Of course not, a day of work can by over $500, or more likely a pto day lost.

[ChiDiddy]

Courts just want money. Its always a deal. Same with criminal cases and higher misdemeanors and felonies. Esp if someone has multiple charges. ie. 3 tickets, speeding, defective equipment, and another non-mover.

Usually, prosecutors offer a deal of paying the moving violation and dismiss the other 2, or officers ask the prosecutor to dismiss the moving+1 non, and pay on 1 non-mover. They usually dont have a problem with it just as long as the courts are getting some kind of conviction and of course, money.

If they were to go to trial, however, prosecutors always push for max fine on all cases. I've testified against some hard-heads and most of the time, they get almost max fine on EACH violation. Why? Judges and juries often see their hard-headedness.

Sadly, its the same deal for higher criminal cases. ie. burglarize 3 houses, 3 seperate incidents. Plea guilty on one case, they dismiss the other 2 instead of trying for a higher sentence to keep these turds in prison.

In TX, we have the points system for traffic tickets. They do effect ins rates. Most of the time, going to court to "fight" your ticket is actually working out a better deal for your fines. Ie. probation, reduced fines, or even chances at dismissals! Theres always chances for error on tickets, court complaint forms, etc that causes cases to be dismissed.

[kyleb350]

Same in IL. I hired a lawyer for reducing a speeding in a construction zone ticket. As soon as I walked in, it seemed like the DA gave a standard settlement offer to everyone. I probably didn't even need the lawyer.

[ceb]

Originally Posted by John 070

Seriously, people treat insurance (even on this forum where people seem to uncover a lot that ordinary people would not) as a mystery.

It's not mysterious at all. If you get one moving violation in PA, you will not get an insurance surcharge. what you can get, depending, is a license suspension for your 2nd offense, if the points add up to 6.

No surcharge, well, that's not the insurance co's decision, that's the statute. We'd have to look at the schedule, but most likely if you got x over, it's not worth your while when you factor in no insurance surcharge and losing time from work. x may be 11 to 21.

5 mph over I'm going to guess is a $12x fine. Let's say you get 14 over and it's $150 (I'm making it up, the exact number is on the web), is it worth it to save $25 to $30 by showing up? Of course not, a day of work can by over $500, or more likely a pto day lost.

That's a bit simplistic. If you don't contest each ticket then your first ticket goes on record and your second ticket is your second. If you contest it, then your first doesn't exist and your second is your first.

In this fiscal environment, you can bet that even if you go to court that you'll have to pay the fine. The goal is to get no points.

That said, never lie. If you were speeding, ran a stop sign or whatever, then plead guilty with an explanation. If your explanation is truthful and is accepted by the court then you have no issues.

[Migelito]

Originally Posted by ceb

That said, never lie. If you were speeding, ran a stop sign or whatever, then plead guilty with an explanation. If your explanation is truthful and is accepted by the court then you have no issues.

personally, it is the WORST advice i ever heard. judges do not care what your explanation was and pleading guilty (with or w/o explanation) does not do you a good. there are thousands of violators just like you and the judge who is forced to deal with all those "douches" will not go into your particular situation to make your life easier.
And you do not have to lie - you do not have to testify against yourself at all - neither with the cop on spot nor in the court, nobody in the court can expect you to answer straight if you were speeding or not.
That said, I found my way how to deal with all this: first, study the law of your state, see what violation causes what, when insurance can raise your premium etc. etc . etc. NEVER admit guilty unless the deal is so good that it does no harm either on you DL or insurance (for example, plea bargain for probation which drops the ticket completely if you do not violate during 90 days). If the cop is not responsive - go to court, file motion for discovery, if cop honors your motion (happens very rear) when do cross-examination and so on. You will always have a last resort to ask judge at the end for something which you could have asked if plead guilty with expl or no contest.

for me this strategy worked very well for past three years with number of tickets. Just once I admitted guilty 9 miles over (with totally clean record) - i was trying to be honest blah-blah-blah and the consequence was just "great" - insurance raised my premium by 70%. Since then I developed my way and never admit guilty - no point on the DL and the insurance never went up since then, and I spent just 81$ for the court costs in total

[ceb]

Originally Posted by Migelito

personally, it is the WORST advice i ever heard. judges do not care what your explanation was and pleading guilty (with or w/o explanation) does not do you a good. there are thousands of violators just like you and the judge who is forced to deal with all those "douches" will not go into your particular situation to make your life easier.
And you do not have to lie - you do not have to testify against yourself at all - neither with the cop on spot nor in the court, nobody in the court can expect you to answer straight if you were speeding or not.
That said, I found my way how to deal with all this: first, study the law of your state, see what violation causes what, when insurance can raise your premium etc. etc . etc. NEVER admit guilty unless the deal is so good that it does no harm either on you DL or insurance (for example, plea bargain for probation which drops the ticket completely if you do not violate during 90 days). If the cop is not responsive - go to court, file motion for discovery, if cop honors your motion (happens very rear) when do cross-examination and so on. You will always have a last resort to ask judge at the end for something which you could have asked if plead guilty with expl or no contest.

for me this strategy worked very well for past three years with number of tickets. Just once I admitted guilty 9 miles over (with totally clean record) - i was trying to be honest blah-blah-blah and the consequence was just "great" - insurance raised my premium by 70%. Since then I developed my way and never admit guilty - no point on the DL and the insurance never went up since then, and I spent just 81$ for the court costs in total

You are absolutely correct (and I should have mentioned that) that it depends on state law. MD has "peanut butter & jelly" (probation before judgement) that allows for the judge to place you on "probation." If you don't get another ticket in the next half year or so, then you get no points and the ticket essentially didn't happen (but you do get to pay the fine.)

You can only get that by pleading guilty with an explanation.

A not guilty plea means that you weren't speeding and that would be a lie, so in MD (and states with similar laws) this is the only ethical way to get out of points.

The only way to figure out the best strategy is to know the laws of the jurisdiction where you got stopped AND the insurance laws of your state.

[Migelito]

Originally Posted by ceb

A not guilty plea means that you weren't speeding and that would be a lie, so in MD (and states with similar laws) this is the only ethical way to get out of points.

The only way to figure out the best strategy is to know the laws of the jurisdiction where you got stopped AND the insurance laws of your state.

well, in my opinion, you are right up to the point where you say about ethical way. saying "not guilty" does not mean perjury in anyway, and does not mean lie. It is the duty of the officer to PROVE you were guilty, and if you can convince the judge the officer was not doing right way in the court, then you have a dismissed ticket. I personally do not believe in any ethical rules which can ever prevent me from fighting the ticket in the court without violating law. if I can do it I WILL do it no matter what i should do within the law limits.

however if the advice is to admit all the time when you're caught for speeding, when one may end up without money, DL, car, and so on. The other way, certainly, is to obey the speed limits strictly (zero tolerance!) or use public transportation. but i do not think the latter is an option for many of us on this forum.

[brecht]

I've gotten 3 tickets within 2 months. 2 not in my car so I didnt have my escort.

Next one my license is suspended...if i get points. My driving has changed A LOT.

[ceb]

Originally Posted by Migelito

well, in my opinion, you are right up to the point where you say about ethical way. saying "not guilty" does not mean perjury in anyway, and does not mean lie. It is the duty of the officer to PROVE you were guilty, and if you can convince the judge the officer was not doing right way in the court, then you have a dismissed ticket. I personally do not believe in any ethical rules which can ever prevent me from fighting the ticket in the court without violating law. if I can do it I WILL do it no matter what i should do within the law limits.

however if the advice is to admit all the time when you're caught for speeding, when one may end up without money, DL, car, and so on. The other way, certainly, is to obey the speed limits strictly (zero tolerance!) or use public transportation. but i do not think the latter is an option for many of us on this forum.

If you were speeding and got caught then pleading "not guilty" is unethical.

That's where your understanding of state laws come in. If there is no ethical way of getting out of the points, then you need to change your driving style.

[JimKW]

I wanted to fight mine but decided not to. I talked to an attorney and he wanted $250 for fight it for me. The ticket was $146 and two points. My record is clean prior to the ticket. When the attorney told me I had to go to an arraignment to plead "not guilty" then get a court date and go back on that date to actually fight it I decided it wasn't worth it. I figure I would have to missed at least two half days of work. Had my record not been clean I would have hired the attorney, but spending $250 to avoid paying $146 did not seem like good economics.

[Migelito]

Originally Posted by ceb

If you were speeding and got caught then pleading "not guilty" is unethical.

That's where your understanding of state laws come in. If there is no ethical way of getting out of the points, then you need to change your driving style.

I see you point and respect it, but I personally do not really care if it is ethical or not pleading "not guilty". If I can beat the ticket I will do it no matter what.
I may think it is unethical to set two different speed limits (like 75 vs 65) on the same interstate (same terrain, same asphalt, same safety) when i am crossing the state line, I may think it is unethical too to give all states the right to regulate their speed limits at all (imho it should be federal regulation throughout the country). But their speed limit regulation style is not gonna change, nor will change my driving style and my way of beating tickets.

I would let ethical guys to contribute to the state budgets, I'm out.

[John 070]

Originally Posted by JimKW

I wanted to fight mine but decided not to. I talked to an attorney and he wanted $250 for fight it for me. The ticket was $146 and two points. My record is clean prior to the ticket. When the attorney told me I had to go to an arraignment to plead "not guilty" then get a court date and go back on that date to actually fight it I decided it wasn't worth it. I figure I would have to missed at least two half days of work. Had my record not been clean I would have hired the attorney, but spending $250 to avoid paying $146 did not seem like good economics.

Don't you wish that by chance you would have called an honest attorney who would say, "Were you charged with a crime? No? Speeding ticket? Well, there is simply absolutely nothing at all that I can do for you, that you can't do for yourself. After all, you were not charged with a crime. I don't want your $250, because I would never take a client's money, when there is absolutely nothing that I can do for them, that they could not do for themselves, when they haven't been charged with a crime. Good day."