[Fragger]

Hi Guys,

Quick situation, needs your prompt advice.

I am looking at a 2009 335i xDrive Sedan, 34ishK miles, Premium Package, Cold Weather, Sports Package, Nav, 18" Wheels, premium audio, and 6-Speed Manual.

GRAND TOTAL, FINAL WALK OUT Price they're offering is $35,400. This is with $750 "discount" and a mere $1,100 for my 95 3000GT SL with 100K miles on it.

The cars actual price BEFORE taxes and my trade is: 34,250. The color is black with the Chestnut Brown interior (love this color).

I think I am NOT trading my car in, because I KNOW I can get more for it by selling it myself. BUT, here are the questions I have:

1. What do you think about the deal above? Is it Good, bad, fair, very good, very bad, or etc?

2. What would YOU offer for this car, or how would YOU negotiate the price on this, and what would that be?

3. Can someone PLEASE give me the breakdown or the TRUTH about my BMW Warranties work? I read the text, but I am always confused:

A. This is NOT a BMW dealership, so can I just claim the warranty from my local BMW dealership?

B. Do I have an option to extend the warranty, before next year or 50,000 miles? If so, what is the FINE PRINT for that?

C. How does certification work? Like, if I buy a 335 with 5X,XXX miles on it, can I just get it certified on my own from a BMW dealership and get the extended warranty?


I am in the middle of this deal, so please offer advice, as to should I fight for it, or let it go?

Thank you very much in advance, looking forward to some PROMPT advice ! Thanks guys, as always !

[Bunkei]

I'll speak on the extended warranty part because I just bought a 335i myself, and this was an issue that had to be addressed. Like mentioned elsewhere, there's a big difference between an "extended warranty" and "vehicle service contract". They're not a BMW dealership, so it's unlikely they'll be able to provide BMW's extended warranty. You may have to shop at your local BMW dealer for prices. There are some printouts on what prices you can expect to pay in the 'Mechanical Maintenance' section on the forum.

Most likely they will try to sell you a vehicle service contract. The quality/worth of these contracts vary widely. I highly suggest you take home whatever they offer you and post what it covers, and more importantly, what it DOESN'T. During my research, I found that there are some exclusions that are just ridiculous; for example, there's one VSC where it says in the small print that the maximum they will cover for a new engine is $2,500. There's no way that any service/repair shop will get a brand new engine for that price, even for a Kia. You also want to make sure that you're able to take the car to any reputable repair shop, and that the administrator of the VSC pays the shop directly (some have it that you have to pay up front, and then you'll have to harass them for reimbursement; avoid those at all cost). Also, consider the company that it backing this service contract. Is it in good financial shape? This is important because if the company goes out of business, you may have purchased a worthless warranty with no means of recourse.

In my case, my vehicle service contract covers all major mechanical/electrical areas of my car. I can take it anywhere for repair as long as they're ASE-certified. Best yet, the administrator of the service contract is Toyota; so no concern of them going under.

So reiterate, I'd get a copy of the coverage info and post it on here so some of the more knowledgeable folks on here can give you a thumbs up or thumbs down.

P.S. According to kbb.com, they estimate the retail value of the car to be about $34900, so they're not too far off. With that being said, I always treat the price as negotiable no matter what the dealer tells me. The car sounds like it'll be a real gem; I despise stripper cars, so it's good you found one with all the major packages included. The AWD certainly will come in handy since you live in the northeast.

Keep us posted!!

P.S. I strongly urge you look at the mechanical maintenance section of this forum for some excellent topics on the subject of extended warranties/VSC's. Example: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420104

[Fragger]

Originally Posted by Bunkei

I'll speak on the extended warranty part because I just bought a 335i myself, and this was an issue that had to be addressed. Like mentioned elsewhere, there's a big difference between an "extended warranty" and "vehicle service contract". They're not a BMW dealership, so it's unlikely they'll be able to provide BMW's extended warranty. You may have to shop at your local BMW dealer for prices. There are some printouts on what prices you can expect to pay in the 'Mechanical Maintenance' section on the forum.

Most likely they will try to sell you a vehicle service contract. The quality/worth of these contracts vary widely. I highly suggest you take home whatever they offer you and post what it covers, and more importantly, what it DOESN'T. During my research, I found that there are some exclusions that are just ridiculous; for example, there's one VSC where it says in the small print that the maximum they will cover for a new engine is $2,500. There's no way that any service/repair shop will get a brand new engine for that price, even for a Kia. You also want to make sure that you're able to take the car to any reputable repair shop, and that the administrator of the VSC pays the shop directly (some have it that you have to pay up front, and then you'll have to harass them for reimbursement; avoid those at all cost). Also, consider the company that it backing this service contract. Is it in good financial shape? This is important because if the company goes out of business, you may have purchased a worthless warranty with no means of recourse.

In my case, my vehicle service contract covers all major mechanical/electrical areas of my car. I can take it anywhere for repair as long as they're ASE-certified. Best yet, the administrator of the service contract is Toyota; so no concern of them going under.

So reiterate, I'd get a copy of the coverage info and post it on here so some of the more knowledgeable folks on here can give you a thumbs up or thumbs down.

P.S. According to kbb.com, they estimate the retail value of the car to be about $34900, so they're not too far off. With that being said, I always treat the price as negotiable no matter what the dealer tells me. The car sounds like it'll be a real gem; I despise stripper cars, so it's good you found one with all the major packages included. The AWD certainly will come in handy since you live in the northeast.

Keep us posted!!

P.S. I strongly urge you look at the mechanical maintenance section of this forum for some excellent topics on the subject of extended warranties/VSC's. Example: http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=420104

Bunkei, thanks very much for getting the call rolling on this bro.

So, I was interested in only knowing about the BMW Extended Warranty, the third party warranties or the VSC, as you called it, yielded NOTHING but BAD reviews and horror stories of no coverage in my experience and research.

Getting back to the BMW options, once again, I am confused:

1. What is the difference between an Extended Warranty and the warranty that extends with a Certification of the car, that is, to make it a CPO? I believe that warranty adds 2 more years of BMW coverage, or upto a 100,000 miles?

2. What are the exact terms and conditions (anyone know) for getting an Extended Warranty from BMW? Or can I just ask BMW to "certify" my car, BEFORE my regular coverage ends? If so, what is that called, and again.... the fineprint or the preconditions for this kind of coverage? (I know I am all over the place, but that's the extent of my confusion between Extended Warranty and Certification?) Again, talking ALL BMW official coverage here, no third parties...

3. I read somewhere you can buy an extended warranty on a BMW BEFORE its warranty expires. that is, 4 years or 50,000, to two years or 100,000 miles additional? Is this true? If so, what is this called and what are the terms for this? Can I just buy a BMW, for example, that has 45K miles, and pay whatever $2000 fee to get that additional warranty or there's fine print to this that makes this not possible?

Again, I know I am ALL OVER the place, but the text online is so confusing! So thanks for bearing with me and being patient and helpful !

About the price, I don't think it's much of a "deal" but yes, ALL those packages make it an AMAZING experience. The downside is, the color Black. I normally love this color, BUT, might be too common .

Thinking of saying, $33,000 out the door... any thoughts guys? Thanks for all your help!

[Fragger]

*Bump guys

[cdgatti]

I am not going to get into alot details with this, but here is a way that you can think simply about it, apologies if you are way past this level!

All BMW's regardless of where you buy them are covered by the NEW CAR warranty AND maintenance package, honored by BMW dealerships. This is for 4 years or 50K miles from the original in-service date of the car. This pretty much covers everything. You should have essentially zero out of pocket under this. So you should have some coverage under this remaining.

For used cars, on some used cars that BMW deems in good shape they will sell as CPO. This usually commands a higher price by a grand or so over a somewhat equivalent car that is not being offered as a CPO. This is just an extension of the WARRANTY and DOES NOT include extension of the free maintenance at the BMW dealership. This CPO warranty will cover the car for up to 6 years and 100K miles of the original in-service date. When buying a car at either a BMW dealer or not they may also offer a free maintenance package. At BMW this extends the free maintenance or most of it anyway that they have been providing under the 4y/50K all the way to 6y/100K. They will usually get an additional $1000-$1500 for this at the dealer because now they know they will be doing brakes, spark plugs etc... and they are all bigger ticket expenditures for Bimmers.

For 335 cars one of the major items is the HPFP, they have extended the warranty on this to 10 years/120K, so one of your major concerns with the 335 should be taken care of at least for awhile.

[Fragger]

Originally Posted by cdgatti

I am not going to get into alot details with this, but here is a way that you can think simply about it, apologies if you are way past this level!

All BMW's regardless of where you buy them are covered by the NEW CAR warranty AND maintenance package, honored by BMW dealerships. This is for 4 years or 50K miles from the original in-service date of the car. This pretty much covers everything. You should have essentially zero out of pocket under this. So you should have some coverage under this remaining.

For used cars, on some used cars that BMW deems in good shape they will sell as CPO. This usually commands a higher price by a grand or so over a somewhat equivalent car that is not being offered as a CPO. This is just an extension of the WARRANTY and DOES NOT include extension of the free maintenance at the BMW dealership. This CPO warranty will cover the car for up to 6 years and 100K miles of the original in-service date. When buying a car at either a BMW dealer or not they may also offer a free maintenance package. At BMW this extends the free maintenance or most of it anyway that they have been providing under the 4y/50K all the way to 6y/100K. They will usually get an additional $1000-$1500 for this at the dealer because now they know they will be doing brakes, spark plugs etc... and they are all bigger ticket expenditures for Bimmers.

For 335 cars one of the major items is the HPFP, they have extended the warranty on this to 10 years/120K, so one of your major concerns with the 335 should be taken care of at least for awhile.

Wow! Thank you cdgatti, that was a GREAT explanation!

One question about the CPO program. Can I buy ANY BMW that's under the 60K marker, and try to get it certified by BMW, regardless of whether or not:

1. I was the original buyer
2. I bought it officially from a BMW dealership
3. The factory warranty has expired?
4. How much does CPO cost and is it hard to get every car successfully CPOed to extend its warranty?

And that CPO would ONLY include the warranty on powertrain and bumper-to-bumper warranty, or the maintenance comes with it as well?

Thank you so much again for your help!

What do you think about the car/deal above?

Thank you all for reading and helping...

[bimmer848]

the cpo can only be done while the car is still under 4yr./50k. does not matter where you bought it, just still needs to be under those terms. it will have to go to bmw for a full inspection which will be part of the cost of the cpo. it does NOT include maint. that is a seperate purchase, but can be done as well. just remember like cdgatti said, its from original date, not the day you do it. so if the car is 3yrs and 364 days in serivce with 49,999 miles,you will be buying 2 years and a day and 50,001 miles worth of coverage, whichever comes first. not a lot for the $$ they will charge. consider third party coverage sold at a BMW store. they can be just as inclusive, more time and mile coverage at the same or less cost. they are marked up 100% so if its $2K they pay $1K and make $1K. negotiate that and if they sell it, they stand by it in their service dept. these are also always way cheaper if the car is still under factory but unlike cpo you can still purchase if the car is out of factory coverage. just dont buy it anywhere but a BMW store.
-Cheers


also, the deal is good if you are happy with it. dont put too much into what others say they pay. if it fits your budget and you love the car, then do it!

[cdgatti]

Originally Posted by Fragger

Wow! Thank you cdgatti, that was a GREAT explanation!

One question about the CPO program. Can I buy ANY BMW that's under the 60K marker, and try to get it certified by BMW, regardless of whether or not:

1. I was the original buyer
2. I bought it officially from a BMW dealership
3. The factory warranty has expired?
4. How much does CPO cost and is it hard to get every car successfully CPOed to extend its warranty?

And that CPO would ONLY include the warranty on powertrain and bumper-to-bumper warranty, or the maintenance comes with it as well?

Thank you so much again for your help!

What do you think about the car/deal above?

Thank you all for reading and helping...

The basic answer is NO. You cannot buy any BMW (not sure about the 50K or 60K cut off) and have BMW certify it CPO. They only do this for certain used cars on their lots. If you bought a used car from somewhere else and brought it to the dealer to certify CPO, you would definitely be dealing from position of weakness. That is they can claim alot is needed to bring the car up to CPO spec, and charge you to do all that work BEFORE selling you the CPO certification. This is warranty only.

The maintenance does not come with this. An extended maintenance program would be on top of all the above.

[loobie]

when i bought mine i was told the cpo was 60k cutoff. I really prefer the CPO. When I got my X5 i would have been lookiing at engine repairs and a ton of other stuff that could be 20k at the dealer. It was the v8 and had cold start problems. Pay them now or pay them later but the cpo was a deal breaker for me.

[Fragger]

Thank you so much for the answers, guys! And thanks for being patient with me, as I live and learn with you guys.

So I saw the car. Drove nicely, very clean interior and etc. Just a couple of issues I saw, was wondering if you guys had opinions on it:

1. It's a black car, so a considerable amount of scratches and etc on the hood (probably from highway driving and tiny particles and rocks hitting the car). One minor scratch on the driver's side, that seemed touched up. Do you guys think these should affect the sale value of the car? If so, roughly by how much?

2. This bothers me the MOST. The sticker/tiny plate on the driver's side door, with critical information like, paint codes, and etc, was mysteriously 3/4 ripped or missing. I didn't ask the deal what the story was there, yet, but was wondering if you guys have any ideas on what could have happened, and if it has ever happened to your cars? Again, should this affect the resale value?

3. Saw SOME oxidation effects (not rust, yet) on some of the metal parts under the hood. Nothing underneath the car. Probably been around the shore? Again, should this affect the price?

4. Lastly, saw condensation and "misty" residue on the side of the headlights... any thoughts if this is a common occurance and if it could be fixed?

Would absolutely VALUE your inputs, especially since I am making a counter offer to the dealer tonight, so guys PLEASE chip in, thanks!

Going back to the warranty, if you guys were buying this car, what would you have done, when the original warranty expires on this in October next year?

CPO SOUNDs like the best option, BUT based on the info from you guys, seems like that MIGHT NOT be something possible, since this is not a BMW dealer, and when I take to one, they might make it impossible for me to CPO it, cause it's not from their lot, as cdgatii, put it... "position of weakness." So what would YOU guys have done? Third party warranty?

Thanks for the the help guys! Given the flaws I mentioned above, I am thinking of putting the counter offer of $33,000 off the lot (taxes included). Any ideas... too high, too low?

[loobie]

too high. You should be able to get a good counter offer. ask for 29k and settle for 32? if they are serious to sell the car they will do the deal. prob picked it up at auction for 30 or less and have put nothing in to it.

[Fragger]

Originally Posted by loobie

too high. You should be able to get a good counter offer. ask for 29k and settle for 32? if they are serious to sell the car they will do the deal. prob picked it up at auction for 30 or less and have put nothing in to it.

Thanks for your advice loobie, but if you look at the KBB, AND similarly equipped cars, with that mileage, you're not gonna find anything less than $34K!

Though, I am leaning to agree with you, that they probably picked it up MUCH cheaper, can you offer more input as to why you counter with $5-6K less?

Are you saying 29 to 32K out the door (taxes and fees included) or just the price of the car?

[loobie]

kbb is always high. take the kbb and subtract 5k then add your taxes etc. Always negotiate the purchase price of the car then figure out taxes fees and monthly payment. Out the door price is their way of getting you into a payment mentality. you should be able to get it for well below kbb. Mine i just bought cpo was 3k below kbb. Doesnt hurt to ask.

[loobie]

plus i got another 1k for my trade over book so really 4k total

[31 Hz]

In February I bought a *cherry* CPO 2008 335 (Sport, Nav, 6MT, 26k miles) for $32,000 at a BMW dealership. The dealer only was willing to come down $500 from their asking price. I felt like I paid a premium for the CPO, but I also felt that it was worth it, and I'm glad that I bought such a pristine car.

Your price seems quite high, especially considering that the car doesn't appear to be meticulously cared for. I would pass.

[whitee90]

I try to stay away from dealers. They try to rape people on prices. If your not worried on traveling. Try looking at autotrader or craigslist. If you like the price go for it.

[Fragger]

Well guys, I put in my counter as 32K out the door, leaving some wiggle room to come up to 33K...

The latest update... the dealer never responded. I guess I will shoot him a follow up note tomorrow, and if he still doesn't respond, I guess it's time for me to start the search over...

Thanks for all your help!

[loobie]

let him respond to you. It will prob take a couple days. I put in offers on 5 cars this last time around. The one that wanted to sell me the car got my business. The others called me back up to a week later to tell me the price on the car went down. Keep looking but dont be surprised if they call in a week and take your offer.

[Fragger]

Originally Posted by loobie

let him respond to you. It will prob take a couple days. I put in offers on 5 cars this last time around. The one that wanted to sell me the car got my business. The others called me back up to a week later to tell me the price on the car went down. Keep looking but dont be surprised if they call in a week and take your offer.

Hey loobie,

He did respond, but basically, to not budge. Offering me $36,250 for out the door on a NON CPO... thoughts?

[loobie]

what's book value? you can get a loaded cpo for that price. Do a local search on bmw.com

[Fragger]

Originally Posted by loobie

what's book value? you can get a loaded cpo for that price. Do a local search on bmw.com

Book value is about 35... you said take 5 out of that to negotiate, right?

[loobie]

4 to 5k off of book is not unreasonable. You may not get it for that but 32k is reasonable. Then they offer you 33k and the game is complete!
They probably bought the car at auction which is below trade in value. If it is under bmw 50k warranty the only costs they would have is tires and any paint work or refurbishing. If you look at trade in value for this car this is more like what they paid on it. Everyone needs to make a profit to stay in business and live a decent life. The car is not worth paying so close to book if its not in immaculate condition with every single thing you want on it. If it sits for another month they might throw you another offer.