[kaishang]

Okey, been rear ended.

Damage looks similar to on this thread:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=609463
but maybe not quite as bad.

Bumper has a hole in it. Can see the bumper to rear side panel gap has increased about 2 millimetres on one side.

I suggested to the other driver that they may like to just pay for it outside insurance, since it will put everyones premium up. But looking at the above thread, it is likely to be around £1,500.

What do you think about the cost of bumper replacement?

If it does go through their insurer.... how much do you think a non-fault accident will put my premium up?

[Kerr]

It will not be cheap especially if you want it done at a quality body shop.

Even for the bumper, trim, paint and labour you are talking too much for outside insurance.

If the old guy has clean history one bump will not kill him. However one bump also effects your insurance.

Would be good if. it was paid out of pocket but it is likely to be too much.

[jonl1983]

Id hate to be rear ended by an OAP..

[Evil Diesel]

You could always claim directly through his insurer rather than on your policy and letting your insurer recover.

If you claim on your comp policy, even in a no fault claim, you will end up paying around 10% extra premium for the next 3 years.

[AlwynMike]

And of course, you will have to declare the accident, even if you don't claim, and because of it, though you are not at fault, your Insurance company will think you a dangerous driver and load your premium. To kick you whilst you are down, because you are now a dangerous driver, other company's won't even quote for your renewal. Legalised Highway Robbery!

Oh, and Happy Christmas

Mike

[kaishang]

What a major PITA. This is likely to affect 2 x insurance policies. Wife has the insurance on the BMW in her name so she will have to declare it on renewal. But I was driving it at the time of the collision, so I will have to declare it when I renew my separate policy on a motorbike.

I really wonder if when it is nighttime, raining and a lot of traffic is the best time for 80+ year olds to be driving. Couldn't they have planned their journey for when it wasn't (a) dark (b) raining?

Plenty of 80+ year olds can drive fine... probably including the one who hit me..... but generally they do realise the reflexes aren't what they once were and limit themselves and don't drive when - have I said it - it is dark, raining and there is a lot of traffic.

[kaishang]

Next question:

Is there any difference if I go direct to the other driver's insurance company for a third party claim or if I go direct to my (or rather wife's since the policy is in her name) insurance company and do a comprehensive claim and let them sort it out?

[Golgarth]

I would speak to a nice claims company and get them to deal with it for you. That way you get a decent hire car, it doesn't appear as a claim (if I don't claim on my insurance I do not declare it as an accident on my renewal) and, from what I have seen, it gets dealt with quicker.

Best of luck

[Subzero2003]

Do NOT go to your insurer with this. Go to his insurer and let them sort it out. If you go to your insurer it will take much longer and they'll pull your NCD for however long it takes them to receive rge money from the old mans insurer - and insurance companies wrote the book on how to drag your heels.

Let his insurance company pay for your car directly and simply notify ur insurance that there has been an incident and that you are pursuing it through his insurance.

[Kerr]

When I was rear ended in my old car I was told that if I claimed on my own insurance I would have to pay my excess up front to be recovered later.

Turns out his insurance company (direct line) were very quick to sort everything out with little inconvenience to me and no excess to be paid.

[MEGA]

Originally Posted by kaishang

What a major PITA. This is likely to affect 2 x insurance policies. Wife has the insurance on the BMW in her name so she will have to declare it on renewal. But I was driving it at the time of the collision, so I will have to declare it when I renew my separate policy on a motorbike.

I really wonder if when it is nighttime, raining and a lot of traffic is the best time for 80+ year olds to be driving. Couldn't they have planned their journey for when it wasn't (a) dark (b) raining?

Plenty of 80+ year olds can drive fine... probably including the one who hit me..... but generally they do realise the reflexes aren't what they once were and limit themselves and don't drive when - have I said it - it is dark, raining and there is a lot of traffic.

I'm fairly sure this is not true.

The policy that is claimed against is the only policy that must declare it. The fact you have had an accident isn't relevant.

Whilst insurance might argue different to take your X and Y; There's no audit trail in MID of your involvement in this collision. It will be stored against her policy. Don't double f*ck yourself come renewal.

Those in the industry might disagree, but that's because they enjoy railing people up the shitter.

Sorry to hear about your troubles. This is always my biggest concern about running a nice car.

Touch wood 4 years since my last knock now: Which as per this was a non fault claim...

[parapaul]

Originally Posted by jonl1983

Id hate to be rear ended by an OAP..

My first thoughts when I read the title of the thread... Where's Will?

Originally Posted by AlwynMike

And of course, you will have to declare the accident, even if you don't claim, and because of it, though you are not at fault, your Insurance company will think you a dangerous driver and load your premium. To kick you whilst you are down, because you are now a dangerous driver, other company's won't even quote for your renewal. Legalised Highway Robbery!

Oh, and Happy Christmas

Mike

Yes, yes, and no. Unless you've already got a string of claims under your belt, there's a pretty miniscule chance you'll be refused a quote for one no fault accident.

Originally Posted by Golgarth

I would speak to a nice claims company and get them to deal with it for you. That way you get a decent hire car, it doesn't appear as a claim (if I don't claim on my insurance I do not declare it as an accident on my renewal) and, from what I have seen, it gets dealt with quicker.

Best of luck

Claims company, yes, why not? As well as recovering the cost of the claim, and employing a legal team, and paying their own fees,, that will hardly put the total cost of the claim up at all, will it? That's bound to help the cost of premiums stay down next year...

Originally Posted by Subzero2003

Do NOT go to your insurer with this. Go to his insurer and let them sort it out. If you go to your insurer it will take much longer and they'll pull your NCD for however long it takes them to receive rge money from the old mans insurer - and insurance companies wrote the book on how to drag your heels.

Let his insurance company pay for your car directly and simply notify ur insurance that there has been an incident and that you are pursuing it through his insurance.

It's irrelevant. Once you notify your insurer of the accident (which you are obliged to do) they'll record it and adjust your risk accordingly. So you may as well go through them to start with and have them do the chasing.

Originally Posted by Kerr

When I was rear ended in my old car I was told that if I claimed on my own insurance I would have to pay my excess up front to be recovered later.

I think that's pretty standard practice.

Originally Posted by MEGA

I'm fairly sure this is not true.

The policy that is claimed against is the only policy that must declare it. The fact you have had an accident isn't relevant.

Whilst insurance might argue different to take your X and Y; There's no audit trail in MID of your involvement in this collision. It will be stored against her policy. Don't double f*ck yourself come renewal.

Those in the industry might disagree, but that's because they enjoy railing people up the shitter.

I think you're both right and wrong. Saying you don't need to tell them is sadly not the case every insurance policy includes wording to the effect that you must tell them of any accident you are involved in. However, I think you're absolutely right that there's no trail of declared accidents other than what's held by your current insurer. I'm certain that if you forgot to tell your next insurer about a non-fault incident that it wouldn't be picked up on.

[tomgrey]

I had the tiniest bump in rear. It was almost impossible to see but was the other drivers fault as I was stationary and he just nuzzled up to the bumper. Took it to the dealer and they introduced accident exchange line and passed me quote for work. It was over £1500 (totally unbelievable as the finest brush with touch up paint would have hidden it) and I was told until they stripped it off they could not see damage and so on.
Anyway, I did it all through accident exchange line and they were very good. Dealt with everything, organised an equivalent hire car and so on. I expect the bill was over £2500 for dealer and car hire costs. The only thing I did not like was that they repeatedly asked if I had been injured, had back pain and so on. The guy was probably doing less than 1MPH when he cosied up to my bumper, so of course I wasn't injured and I was annoyed that they kept asking. Afterall the size of the claim was enough already without adding insult to injury and by the way, increasing the premium for all of us.

That apart they did a very good job for me (but cost the other party a lot). I was not inconvenienced in anyway and I would recommend them. My own insurers were never involved and I wasn't asked to pay a penny for anything.

[AlwynMike]

Originally Posted by parapaul

Yes, yes, and no. Unless you've already got a string of claims under your belt, there's a pretty miniscule chance you'll be refused a quote for one no fault accident.

From experience with my wife's insurance, the number of company's not quoting on the internet search engines increased significantly just because she had made a claim for a windscreen - everything else was the same. So when Autoglass or whover say that it doesn't affect your insurance, it is not true - what they say is that it won't affect your no claims. You will still get re-rated as you now have a claims history and the statistics say that if you make one claim (for anything) you are more likely to make another. (Which she did 18 months later - another windscreen, but a repair this time!)

Mike

[IanS100]

Originally Posted by parapaul

.......... I think you're absolutely right that there's no trail of declared accidents other than what's held by your current insurer. I'm certain that if you forgot to tell your next insurer about a non-fault incident that it wouldn't be picked up on.

Insurance companies share a great deal of information so I wouldn't be too sure that it isn't stored and available somewhere

Originally Posted by parapaul

..........Saying you don't need to tell them is sadly not the case every insurance policy includes wording to the effect that you must tell them of any accident you are involved in.

Not advising your insurance company is a gamble and nothing will come to light if you're not involved in an accident .... if you are though (or possible your wife as the policy is in her name), and they find out about this, they could declare your policy void claiming you deliberately withheld relevant information.

I was involved in an accident a couple of years ago when a Tesco delivery lorry ripped my bumper off while my car was stationary. I advised my insurance company and employed the dervices of a claims management company who had the car repaired, provided me with a car and pursued Tesco with the claim. There has been no ongoing effect on my policy or premium.

Whilst I agree that the use of a Claims Management Company has put all our premiums up I'm glad I didn't have the job of pursuiing Tesco myself because it was very protracted and a right pita!

[fulcrum]

Originally Posted by IanS100

Insurance companies share a great deal of information so I wouldn't be too sure that it isn't stored and available somewhere



Not advising your insurance company is a gamble and nothing will come to light if you're not involved in an accident .... if you are though (or possible your wife as the policy is in her name), and they find out about this, they could declare your policy void claiming you deliberately withheld relevant information.

I was involved in an accident a couple of years ago when a Tesco delivery lorry ripped my bumper off while my car was stationary. I advised my insurance company and employed the dervices of a claims management company who had the car repaired, provided me with a car and pursued Tesco with the claim. There has been no ongoing effect on my policy or premium.

Whilst I agree that the use of a Claims Management Company has put all our premiums up I'm glad I didn't have the job of pursuiing Tesco myself because it was very protracted and a right pita!

Indeed they do!

and they share it with the Government to cross check against their data.

[Robbyd]

Slightly different situation but relevant. Last year my car was parked in my apartment car park and it was hit by a white van. I knew it was the van because there was paint transfer to both vehicles. I got in contact with the van driver and he said that although he wasn't aware he'd hit my car, it appeared that he must have and would accept responsibility and get his insurance to pay out for a repair. After a few weeks there was no word so I called up his insurance company who said that they were still investigating the incident and had let my insurance company know that there was a claim in progress. Another two weeks past and his insurer decided that they wouldn't pay out because there had been no witnesses thus no proof! I didn't want to claim on my insurance because there would be an excess to pay plus a premium hike for damage which would cost me about £250 to fix.
Forgot about the incident until last month when my renewal was due and my premium had increased by £600. After calling up to find out why there was such an increase, I was told that it was because there had been an incident recorded on my account and it affected the premium even although I never actually made a claim. Absolutely disgusting!

So you always lose out when you go through insurance.

[kaishang]

Well the other driver has told her insurer, so for 100% sure I'll have to tell my insurer now.... The only question is if I'll also have to declare it on my motorbike policy as well.

I looked up the value of the other driver's car: about £1,500 so that is most likely going to be a write-off. Also it was recovered, not driven away afterwards.

As I said above, I think setting out on a motorway journey after dark in the only 3-hour block of time that day when it was raining - and forecast to be raining - probably was not the best idea for the other party.

[Subzero2003]

Originally Posted by parapaul

It's irrelevant. Once you notify your insurer of the accident (which you are obliged to do) they'll record it and adjust your risk accordingly. So you may as well go through them to start with and have them do the chasing.

It's not irrelevant at all, because i wasn't talking about the issue of his insurance premium going up next year - that will happen regardless.

I repeat, do NOT go through your own insurance company if this is a non fault accident. If you do, they will require you to pay your excess and suspend your NCB until the other insurance company pay them - then if the 3rd parties insurance company decide to be morons and dispute the claim, this can take months or even years to be settled, meaning that for all those months and years, you will have lost whatever money you've paid as your excess, as well as your NCB. So if your insurance renewal comes around whilst the claim is still being settled, you will have to pay the premium with 0 NCB - because your NCB will be still suspended.

Deal with his insurer only. Forget about your insurer - just notify them and tell them you are not claiming on your policy, but pursuing it through the 3rd parties insurance. In this instance just think of them as a safety net in case the 3rd parties insurer decides to dispute the claim.

[kaishang]

Originally Posted by Subzero2003

I repeat, do NOT go through your own insurance company if this is a non fault accident. If you do, they will require you to pay your excess and suspend your NCB until the other insurance company pay them - then if the 3rd parties insurance company decide to be morons and dispute the claim, this can take months or even years to be settled, meaning that for all those months and years, you will have lost whatever money you've paid as your excess, as well as your NCB. So if your insurance renewal comes around whilst the claim is still being settled, you will have to pay the premium with 0 NCB - because your NCB will be still suspended.

Deal with his insurer only. Forget about your insurer - just notify them and tell them you are not claiming on your policy, but pursuing it through the 3rd parties insurance. In this instance just think of them as a safety net in case the 3rd parties insurer decides to dispute the claim.

If I forget about my insurance company and go via the other drivers third party cover.... what's the procedure for doing this?

Wouldn't this mean I pay the body shop out of my own pocket and then wait for reimbursement out of the third party insurer?

[Subzero2003]

Originally Posted by kaishang

If I forget about my insurance company and go via the other drivers third party cover.... what's the procedure for doing this?

Call up his insurance company, tell them you'd like to make a claim on a policy belonging to one of their customers. They'll ask you about details etc, talk to him and then get back to you.

Originally Posted by kaishang

Wouldn't this mean I pay the body shop out of my own pocket and then wait for reimbursement out of the third party insurer?

AFAIK, no. It should just be billed to his insurance company, but definitely something to ask about.

Trust me, if you go through your insurance, you're just asking for trouble, because until your insurance company receive all the money back from his insurance company, it will stand as a "fault" claim on your policy. Then say his insurance dispute the claim and say it wasn't their policy holders fault, but your own, then things will go back and forth for months, all whilst you're £350 (?) out of pocket, have 0 NCB and with the risk that it will stay as a fault claim on your policy (if it goes 50:50).

[fulcrum]

Originally Posted by Subzero2003

Call up his insurance company, tell them you'd like to make a claim on a policy belonging to one of their customers. They'll ask you about details etc, talk to him and then get back to you.



AFAIK, no. It should just be billed to his insurance company, but definitely something to ask about.

Trust me, if you go through your insurance, you're just asking for trouble, because until your insurance company receive all the money back from his insurance company, it will stand as a "fault" claim on your policy. Then say his insurance dispute the claim and say it wasn't their policy holders fault, but your own, then things will go back and forth for months, all whilst you're £350 (?) out of pocket, have 0 NCB and with the risk that it will stay as a fault claim on your policy (if it goes 50:50).

He has to declare all accidents -standard terms and conditions.

If he does not and the insurance company find out - insurance is invalid and if you have to make a claim they can refuse to pay. Too risky if going through the 3rd party insurer - far less risky if settled private.