[DarkAnt335i]

Long and disjointed post but some of you might enjoy the read if you are bored.

Parts:
Ordered my KW's from AMD essex due to the parts + fitting deal(fitting + alignment for £120). When i ordered them i specifically gave them the date i needed to have them fitted by due to going to the ring a few days later. After phoning them up 13 days after ordering them, i was told that they could not now meet the agreed date and would have to get them fitted 2 days after i came back from the 'ring. So i opted to pick them up and phone round a few place to see who could fit me in (only had 2 working days before going to the 'ring)

In the end PPCGB offered to fit them in the very short time scale given. As i thought it might be pushing them for time i fitted the coilovers on the Sunday and then had PPCGB fit my H&R ARB's and do the alignment on the Tuesday @ a very reasonable price. They did a good job and a very professional and friendly.

The KW's and ARBS make a huge difference to driving on the road. The ARB's cause the car to rotate more on its axis with the back more willing to slide around. Slightly unnerving at first but you get used to it. The KW's not only is the control sooooo much better but the ride is amazing compared to the M sport suspension. On the track the car is very very nice, feel composed and never over stretched. With the combo of ARB's and 245 profile front tyres there is 0 understeer.

Car set up;
JB4
H&R roll bars
KW coilovers
Ferodo DS2500 pads
245/35/19 265/35/19 Cups


Problems:
30 mile after leaving home for the ring 'BING' engine management light... ' blah blah reduced power blah blah' come to a controlled stop on the A2 switch the engine off and back on... all seems fine. Into France i start to hear a whirring noise and rubbing. Get out check the tyres, now they have heated up the pressure is higher so they are rubbing the arches.... GREAT. I drive 250ish miles nervously. @ The hotel i raise the rear as much as i can to reduce the rubbing. After driving i realise its not the compression causing the rubbing it the sideways/lateral movement due to the shitty soft subframe bushing.

Nurburgring;

Fist 2 laps of the 'ring non stop rubbing but its not too bad... running times of about 9:30. Lap 3 about 8 miles in the engine management light comes on and reduces power.... i have to stop on the track as far over as i can fortunately the track was extremely quite on the Friday so caused no issues. Get off the track reset the codes via JB4 in dash commands. Car now seems to be making alot more power. Take it out for the 4th lap now i feel very very quick and the tyres have come up to temperature so masses of grip.... more than i prepared to use at that point. This throws up another problem. I overheat the brakes due to the amount of grip the tyres have, there is no way to overwhelm the tyres on fast road pads. About half way around the lap i realised the fluid had boiled up and i was pretty sure i had warped the discs. Subsequent laps confirm this as the is constant judder even at low speeds after cooling down.

Even with the braking, rubbing and engine issues the car feels amazing the grip from the tyres gave me confidence to push. For about 3 laps i was timed at around 8:40 ish and then the magic lap (for me) happened 8:14 i managed to run with a German M3 all the way around the track.... we both left at the same time to drop into Adenau to get 102 fuel . I asked him what time he got on the lap i chased his just to confirm to myself i had actually run an 8:14 and he said Just under 8mins so it was true and i was over the moon.

The rest of the time i was running about 9:15 ish with the traffic.

Somewhere around lap 12 i had the 'life flashing before eyes moment' Try to replicate a sub 8:30 lap i went Very hot into the beginning of the downhill complex before the bridge (dont know the names of any corners) and i hear a funny sound and loose the back end.... the car felt very very unstable. I instantly thought a wheel had come off. Somehow i managed to collect it up. As it was busy i stuck the indicator on and coasted all the way back and off the track. Checking the wheels, the back left had only 1 nut keeping it attached to the car, the other 4 where just in by the last couple of threads HOW IS THAT FOR A VERY VERY LUCKY ESCAPE???

Although i clearly remember torquing my wheels after adjusting the suspension i still doubt myself. After speaking to a few people including Hayes engineering, apparently the heating and cooling of the nuts car cause this and you are supposed to check the nuts quiet often when racing. You live and learn i guess.

Anyway i completed 14 laps in the end with no incidents and only pads, disc, fluid and bushings to replace. Judder is constantly there regardless of speed and now they SQUEEL like pigs.

Today i had the car rolling road'd to see if there is a genuine issue with the engine/fuelling/afr etc and all seems well. So i assume it was some sort of sensor issue that caused the engine management problem.

Cant remember the codes exactly but think they
3100 12544 boost-pressure control, deactivation
30FF 12543 Exhaust fume turbocharger low side
2A87 10887 Outlet-VANOS variable cam control test

For anyone that is interested. Only power mod is JB4 and these are the results


DynoDynamics Rollers:

Map 5
362.2 BHP About what i was expecting
425 ft/lbs TQ..... Which is far beyond what i was expecting.

I'll post the print out later

Map 1 i cant remember exactly and wasn't given a print out for;
354 BHP
410 ft/lbs TQ

[rogerxp]

That reminds me, must check my nuts before NM4

[DarkAnt335i]

A man should check his nuts regularly it would seem!

[sheps]

With the regularity at which my car burns through tyres they're checked every couple of months as it is.

[A_P]

Dark Ant the Cups are a really wide tyre as is.. Only one question though did you run a 35 height in the rears or a 30?

Also flipping heck man so lucky with the nuts!! haha. I was reading and could feel the tension. In case you're interested you can get the bolts to nuts conversion kit.

Something like this.

http://www.apexraceparts.com/75mm-BM...-Kit_p_94.html

Nice write up bud, very much enjoyed reading.

[Tak1986]

Thats a lucky escape, glad everything was ok! I need to get my head down and plan my ring trip!

2A87, sounds like the same problem i was having while driving in Scotland!

I pop into the dealers, get it sorted under the extended warranty. They replaced two sensors.

[DarkAnt335i]

Im running a 35 profile. Which i know is the problem but got them cheap. Next time i will be going for 30 profile @ the rear. I have about 2mm left at the rear and 3mm at the front so wont be long.

Honestly one of the scariest moments in a car i have had. Entering a at high speed and hearing something fail then feeling like the rear had detached itself from the front, under braking down hill, was horrible. I also had my younger brother in the who is 15 so was even scarier. He hasn't quiet developed fear yet so i was probably bricking it a lot more than him. He is actually part of the reason i was so fast (along with the tyres), his knowledge of the track... turning points and when to maintain speed is un-real for someone who cannot drive yet. He is also constantly 2/10th - 5/10th faster than me @ go karting even though we weight the same.

Ahh brilliant, i didnt even know something like that existed. Think i'll be ordering a set of those.

I have to say the cups are amazing
Unlike the 888's which IMO are pretty good on the road once driven for a few miles and then get 20-30% better on the track before falling off. The cups are about equal to my Pirellis on the road minus the understeer, then feel like they provide 10x the grip once up to temperature

[DarkAnt335i]

Originally Posted by Tak1986

Thats a lucky escape, glad everything was ok! I need to get my head down and plan my ring trip!

2A87, sounds like the same problem i was having while driving in Scotland!

I pop into the dealers, get it sorted under the extended warranty. They replaced two sensors.

I will be doing the same as soon as the fault re-appears. If it does.

[wheelie good]

Yer just rather scarey would never ever think of anything like that due to heat

Do not really follow motor sport but I think some rally driver died last week, so you just never know

[zltm089]

cool story bro!... :-) ...


245 at the fronts, quite wide!...


and regarding ur dyno figures? at these at flywheel?....JB claims about 80bhp....so...going by BMW figures....standard 335i makes 306bhp....add 80bhp with jb4....u're meant to have 386bhp......


what i've noticed is that the jb products can be a bit optimistic on bhp....but the torque is definitely impressive!!!!....even with a jb plus, the torque figures are extremely good....and all tested of course!...

[zltm089]

just looked at the graph again...ok flywheel....

the power delivery is very similar to mine.....its very flat and falling after 5250 rpm......


mid range is damn strong tho!...

[RagingKileak]

Great thread and interesting for us chaps about to head out to the Ring.

Matt

[AlanYoro35i]

awesome write up, made me imaging driving at the track! i did my euro trip just 2 weeks ago and in preparation for the trip i spent a lot getting it ready!

cool-carbon pads all round, new brake fluid ,SS brake hoses for the braking side.Eibach pro kit springs to stiffen things up.3 new wheels as the old one had been buckled and all wheels rebalanced and 2 times alignment to get the car running perfect, Oil and filter changed and a BMC aftermarket panel filter!! but i completely forgot to check the bolts regularly..lucky it didn't come off in the autobahn!

I had the Vano's code too but never did i get Limp mode, mainly the upgraded inter cooler kept things cool and even oil was cooler which was really good oh i got the COBB AP running stage 1 + FMIC map probably around 35o at the wheels?

shame i only had one lap in the Nurburgring as they had an event which made us waited til 5pm then the roads was stupidly wet + oily from the classic car event that happened during the day.

I wish i can go again and experience a good there again!

[zltm089]

how were the springs and brake pad upgrades on the ring Alan?... worth the cost? ....didn't know u changed ur filter aswell!....thinking of getting a panel filter aswell...not sure if it's gona make a difference tho?...

[DarkAnt335i]

Very wide but no rubbing at all from the fronts just endless grip

I see an e46 running 255's front a 265's rear. Think i stick with 245's though


Dyno dynamics roller are supposedly one of the most accurate (who knows really). Bob @ Hayes engineering said that the map seems to be very safe and helps the engine run cooler by richening up the fuel mixture... which he thinks is robbing it of some power. But i would rather 360 safe BHP. Also he said that the power probably actually stays in until around 6k but BMW are known for reigning in the power when there are on the dyno as the sensors supposedly know something is wrong. This i believe as even on the first run nearly every dashboard light came up, including the stability, ABS and engine management light.

I always thought that most 'US' power claims are a bit OTT. When i was on the MPS forums people with the same mod UK vs US. The US always seemed to have an additional 30+ BHP, so i assume they either have Roller that over inflate numbers of they are always trying to use correction methods on the rolling roads that produce figures more accurate to real driving conditions????.... e.g. 100mph on the road will have much more air flow available than with just a the RR fan????

@ 2500rpm its already making 325ft/lbs, which confirms what i have been saying to my brother about being able to drive his 330i faster in the wet, due to it being less of a handful.

I was expecting 370 Flywheel BHP and about 380 ft/lbs tq. So win some loose some.

Yoro, do you have an oil cooler on your car? I also did my oil and filter. Did you notice any difference with the BMC panel filter as i'm considering that as well.

My next mods are:
Either big brake kit or Discs(Nitrac combi), pads, fluid, lines etc.
LSD
Bushings
Intercooler

Any advice on what brake set up i should go for? I usually do 1 ring trip + 1 track day a year, the rest is fast road..

I met Dino and a few others doing they track day out there. Nice to meet you guys. Shame i couldn't stay for the Mondays fun. If i don't spend to much in Vegas in July or get a big win I'll make the August one. Dino apparently there isn't a BMW performance brake set up for the 335i??

[DarkAnt335i]

Zltm; i would assume it depends on how quick he was going

I was going for the cool carbon pads as well. Yoro did you get them from a sale on this forum, if so you beat me to it!!!!

The DS2500 are really really good pads for both road and mild track..... IF i had some decent discs and fluid. I actually have 1 litre of RB600 fluid sitting in my second bedroom but didn't have time to get it in. Not that it would have help the braking as the discs would have probably failed sooner

IMO brakes and tyres are the most important upgrade for the ring. Oh and probably a brain remap! As my dad found out.

I had to listen to him for months going on about he is the real driver of the family.... how he was going to school me BLAH BLAH. I told him he has no idea how to drive. He is a see a straight and put his foot down kind of driver, but in his head it makes him the ultimate 'meld' of Hamilton, Schumacher and Button. Fair enough he only has a standard e46 330i but he achieved a best time of 10:36 and averaged about 10:40's.
After going out with him for a few laps and trying to talk him through some of the corners is was clear he wasn't able to overcome the 'I SEE A CORNER, I'M DOING 100MPH, I NEED TO SLOW DOWN' impulse reaction. Even with me saying 'dab the brakes turn in, off the brakes, off the brakes OFF THE DAMN BRAKES... he couldn't do it.
I took him out for a lap in mine, all i heard was ' WOW THIS IS FAST, OH SH*T thats a corner WOAH...... The car infront hasn't seen us coming ANTON THE CAR INFRONT etc etc' hahahaha was hilarious.

[phil200tdi]

Dyno sounds about right.

map 1 is 360ish on stock car
map 2 is 380ish on stock car

So it depends how aggressive you wanna be.

I bought the cool carbon pads on here, waiting to get them fitted with new discs (pagid oem), SS brake lines, ATE racing blue brake fluid and front hub bearings.

[A_P]

Hey Dark Ant, Have you considered P Zero Corsa's? or are you set on cups?

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by DarkAnt335i

IMO brakes and tyres are the most important upgrade for the ring. Oh and probably a brain remap! As my dad found out.

And a good suspension I would add, although the stock suspension is already quite good and at the 'Ring it's mostly about the driver anyway.

Would have been nice to meet you there, I was at the track day on Monday and met Dino and Michal. Two closures though, so not that much time to drive in the end. I still managed to do 14 laps I think, for half a day that's not too bad I think.

There were some nice BMWs at the track day, among them two Alpina B3 GT3 from the factory with professional drivers (one car was black, the other painted in that garish kermit-the-frog-green plus silver/blue combo), they were very very fast. They were there to test the KW3 suspension settings for the 'Ring so that customers don't need to do it themselves.

I had an instructor with me and got to learn quite a few nice things about a number of corners that I was not so sure about. I still remember him saying though "if your tires don't squeal you're not fast enough" well easy to say if it's not your car I guess!

It was great the weather held though, and I'll try to come by after the track day in August.

Originally Posted by DarkAnt335i

I took him out for a lap in mine, all i heard was ' WOW THIS IS FAST, OH SH*T thats a corner WOAH...... The car infront hasn't seen us coming ANTON THE CAR INFRONT etc etc' hahahaha was hilarious.

Hehehe that sounds quite familiar... But it IS really scary for someone who's never driven on the 'Ring to go out for a lap with an experienced driver.

And even for someone with more experience - I vividly remember Palmnuts telling me he almost sh** his pants when a pro took his old Maserati round the 'Ring and had it airborne sideways in a corner...

Alpina_B3_Lux

[DarkAnt335i]

Ahhh i wished i would have stayed. I see the start of the day as we left the hotel about 8:30 in the morning.

Hopefully no serious accidents/closures?

The Sunday was perfect weather, again a few closures though.

14 laps in half a day is good going. I only managed 14 across Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

I would love to go round with a pro or someone with good experience. I have only done 21 laps total of the ring!!!

"I had an instructor with me and got to learn quite a few nice things about a number of corners that I was not so sure about. I still remember him saying though "if your tires don't squeal you're not fast enough" well easy to say if it's not your car I guess!"

hahaha exactly right, so easy to say when it isn't going to impact on your own wallet or ability to get home.

I did have the cups screaming a fair few times in the faster corners though. In particular overtaking an e46 m3 on the outside of a fast bend. It was more 'I hope this sticks' than skill tbh.


Agree with the suspension and driver completely. But if on a tight budget my opinion would be track tyres + brakes then suspension if you can stretch. Personally i think track tyres would probably provide the most dramatic reduction in lap times. Tyres/brakes seem to allow you to drive faster where as suspension makes it easier to drive faster(if that makes sense?) Well thats how it feels to me at least.

[DarkAnt335i]

Originally Posted by Awfully_Polite

Hey Dark Ant, Have you considered P Zero Corsa's? or are you set on cups?

No not set on cups. Will consider any decent track tyres.

I have never looked at the P Zero Corsa's. I'll have a read on them, do you have personal experience with them?

I think the reason for originally choosing Cups (other than the great deal i got on them) was everyone i know thinks the track tyre they have is the best generally because they have not used others and in general any track tyre will feel amazing compared to a street tyre. So it was hard to gauge what was really best so i made the assumption that if this tyre is good enough to be on the likes of the GT3 RS and M3 then it was good enough for my 335i. Now i'm of the opinion that the Cup is the best tyre, lol, But really i would be happy to try something different.

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by DarkAnt335i

Ahhh i wished i would have stayed. I see the start of the day as we left the hotel about 8:30 in the morning.

Hopefully no serious accidents/closures?

No, not from what I saw. A 458 went into the armco (quite a pity for that car) as well as an M3 at one point, but nothing dramatic as far as I could see.

Originally Posted by DarkAnt335i

The Sunday was perfect weather, again a few closures though.

14 laps in half a day is good going. I only managed 14 across Friday, Saturday and Sunday.

I would love to go round with a pro or someone with good experience. I have only done 21 laps total of the ring!!!

"I had an instructor with me and got to learn quite a few nice things about a number of corners that I was not so sure about. I still remember him saying though "if your tires don't squeal you're not fast enough" well easy to say if it's not your car I guess!"

hahaha exactly right, so easy to say when it isn't going to impact on your own wallet or ability to get home.

Yeah, and that coming from someone who has done tens of thousands of laps is also easy. If I had been driving on the 'Ring for 20 years I would probably need new tires after each track day...

Originally Posted by DarkAnt335i

I did have the cups screaming a fair few times in the faster corners though. In particular overtaking an e46 m3 on the outside of a fast bend. It was more 'I hope this sticks' than skill tbh.

Agree with the suspension and driver completely. But if on a tight budget my opinion would be track tyres + brakes then suspension if you can stretch. Personally i think track tyres would probably provide the most dramatic reduction in lap times. Tyres/brakes seem to allow you to drive faster where as suspension makes it easier to drive faster(if that makes sense?) Well thats how it feels to me at least.

I agree. Although a good brake kit is easily twice as expensive as a good suspension, and if you know exactly where to brake on the 'Ring you can even drive 2-3 laps with the stock brakes in a row.

BTW I've written a few lines in the sticky post about the track day, along with a few shots I dug out from one of the websites specialised on 'Ring photos, if you want to have a look.

Alpina_B3_Lux