[3aficionado]

Audi is releasing the A5 coupe in 2007 with a range of cars having 150bhp to 420bhp. This competes directly with eveything BMW has planned for the 3 series coupes. Is BMW falling behind or just waiting to be last to announce its plans for a coupe?

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/defa...?storyId=12438

[ska///235i]

what...2007, comon now...thats still a long way to go

Kia can annouce their 2007 coupe can do 300bhp to 820bhp..who knows

[Papa13]

BMW behind? ha ha.. wow thanx for the laugh man...

[Bimmerista]

Let us run for the hills...................................


Indeed Audi is getting more serious about competing in the luxury car segment but Audi's handling is not where BMW is, it is in fact a sportier version of a Mercedes handling, or what Lexus should be if in fact they did not put butter in the steering column... etc.

BTW Audi has also announced the R8 for 2007-08, with 450 hp detuned V10 Galardo engine (the R8 is on the same chasis).

And no it does not mean BMW is behind or dead in the water just because they have not yet announced an 8 series.

[ward]

BMW sells 2-3 times as many cars in the states as Audi,
audi's got a long long long way to go before they are a serious contender

[Bimmerista]

I agree with Ward in NA - in Europe they are giving BMW and Mercedes a run for their money on the number of cars sold front.

But even there, where the Audi suspension even in non-sport trim is tighter than here, Audi does not come out ahead in the handling department. The comparos they win in Europe often has to do with a bang for buck analyses which are specific to those markets (warranty offered, standard equipment) and with diesel engine performance, where Audi is doing pretty well.

[3aficionado]

Originally Posted by ska

what...2007, comon now...thats still a long way to go

Its only one year after the e92 is set to be released & the same year as the M3. Look what the IS 350 did when it was released about one year after the e90. If the rumors on this board are correct, lately BMW is playing catch up for underestimating and not anticipating its competition. I think a 2007 Audi coupe (that looks good - nothing like a TT) is important to the 2006+ e92 & 2007 M3.

Originally Posted by ska

Kia can annouce their 2007 coupe can do 300bhp to 820bhp..who knows

And a 2006 Honda Civic had 197HP beating the 2004 325’s 184HP. But who cares about Hondas ability to go in a straight line. Honda is no more competition to a BMW than a Kia ever will be. But Audi is direct competition with a strong plan for a model that could pose a threat to the 3 series top rankings. I hope BMW has this Audi on its radar as its making coupe plans.

Originally Posted by Bimmerista

Indeed Audi is getting more serious about competing in the luxury car segment but Audi's handling is not where BMW is, it is in fact a sportier version of a Mercedes handling, or what Lexus should be if in fact they did not put butter in the steering column... etc.

BTW Audi has also announced the R8 for 2007-08, with 450 hp detuned V10 Galardo engine (the R8 is on the same chasis).

And no it does not mean BMW is behind or dead in the water just because they have not yet announced an 8 series.

I should rephrase the "falling behind" quote. I personally still think BMW is the best. But you have to admit competition is getting stronger & closer to the BMW. There would be no reason to re-badge the 3 series (as many posts have stated) if the 3 series was leaps and bounds above the competition.

The new Audi is going to be a strong car if, as you state, it is a sportier Merc and a better handling Lexus. The handling of the Lexus was the main reason it comes in behind the 3 series in tests. The 3 has some tough fights ahead of it if the Audi can do all that Lexus did and make the car sportier with better handling. That makes the Audi a viable threat. And thats all I'm saying here... an Audi A5 will be viable competition.


Let me stress that I am a BMW fan that could never see myself owning an Audi. But I'm not a BMW fanatic that dismisses any other car just because it doesn't carry the BMW name (this statement is not directed anyone in particular - just making a point that I try to be fair to all brands).

[Bimmerista]

I think we agree then - I AM a BMW fanatic, but I have become one because I drove other cars of different makes.

However, even a fanatic like me can appreciate other cars and makes and evaluate their competitive worth.

IMHO Audi has chose not to go head on with BMW in fact, but rather (just like Lexus) in words. I.E. their cars will pull more people who would otherwise have bought MBs than BMW. Having said that, BMW cannot afford to dismiss them, rather I do not think Audi will beat BMW.

Infinity is another matter - we shall see what the next G35 and the newxt GT-R will do.

[Hornet]

Originally Posted by Bimmerista

The comparos they win in Europe often has to do with a bang for buck analyses which are specific to those markets (warranty offered, standard equipment) and with diesel engine performance, where Audi is doing pretty well.

I don't quite agree.
Both the Audi and the BMW come with a 2 year warranty, thats it (I think its the same everywhere in the Europe). Standard equipment? Well, neither has anything as standard, IMO. 650€ for just to get the electric rear windows for the Audi (B7 A4), just to give you an example. What comes to the diesel engines, I think they are pretty even.

Back to the topic: Well if this new coupe is due 2007, will it use the new B8 platform? The B8 A4 is coming in 2008 so it would be stupid to use the current B7 platsorm as a base. Maybe it will have a completely new platform? Just have to wait and see.

[cosmosblau]

Cmon-

it's a 2 door PASSAT.

[Bimmerista]

Originally Posted by Hornet

I don't quite agree.
Both the Audi and the BMW come with a 2 year warranty, thats it (I think its the same everywhere in the Europe). Standard equipment? Well, neither has anything as standard, IMO. 650€ for just to get the electric rear windows for the Audi (B7 A4), just to give you an example. What comes to the diesel engines, I think they are pretty even.

Back to the topic: Well if this new coupe is due 2007, will it use the new B8 platform? The B8 A4 is coming in 2008 so it would be stupid to use the current B7 platsorm as a base. Maybe it will have a completely new platform? Just have to wait and see.

I think you are right - it will use the new B8 platform.

As for the Euro comparos, the only reference I have is German mags, which test german variants only - not sure if it makes a difference. Often in the Autobild comparisons, they will in the end have BMW outdo the Audi in obective criteria but then say that the Audi is the winner because it is (as equipped) 2000 Euros less (for eg)

[Squawks]

I'm quite impressed with the gadgetry. The interior, however, reminds me of a space ship console. I'm not one of those guys who would prefer simplicity but this is just overdoing it. LED headlights, though? Wow.

[3aficionado]

Originally Posted by Bimmerista

Infinity is another matter - we shall see what the next G35 and the newxt GT-R will do.

I’m not familiar with the GT-R. Is that an upcoming Infinity?

Originally Posted by Hornet

650€ for just to get the electric rear windows for the Audi (B7 A4)

I’m not familiar with options in Europe. Are you saying Audi charges to make the rear windows electric on some models? Some cars in Europe come standard with electric front windows and manual rear windows? That seems really funny. They would never get away with that in the states.

[Hornet]

Originally Posted by Bimmerista

As for the Euro comparos, the only reference I have is German mags, which test german variants only - not sure if it makes a difference.

It may depend of the different models of course (E90, E60 vs. A4, A6 and so on), but I generally think they are equally expensive. Also, there are no big equipment differencies between the european countries. (Well, we get the heated seats as standard here )

I haven't noticed much difference between the test results that AMS, Auto Zeitung and Autobild makes. Usually BMW is the sharper handling car, while Audi gets compliments for the firm ride and excellent build quality. Both being points that I personally agree completely.

Both of these brands also dominate the annual Car of the year - survey that is held by a major finnish car magazine. BMW has won the overall category (incl. service, ...) now for a number of times in a row, Audi being second placed. This year Audi won the best car - category.

Originally Posted by 3aficionado

I’m not familiar with the GT-R. Is that an upcoming Infinity?I’m not familiar with options in Europe. Are you saying Audi charges to make the rear windows electric on some models? Some cars in Europe come standard with electric front windows and manual rear windows? That seems really funny. They would never get away with that in the states.

Its sad but true!
Standard B7 and E90 cars come with plastic stering wheels and shiftknobs, no cruise control either. The E90, for example, doesn't have alloy wheels (4-cyl versions) or auto AC (1200€ here) as standard. What is even worse is that the extras cost a lot money in addition to the expensive cars.

[Sho]

No Audi for me. Weight ratio is 60/40. The handling would not be as good as a BMW.

[obLu]

Audi's (I just sold my 2nd) are awesome *cars*. Much better, imo, as everyday useful transportation ... well, except for the backseat in my A4. Very solid, very well built, awd provides a lot of security especially in wet weather, well crafted interiors, realistic gadget options (I think a lot of BMW electronics are superfluous. In other terms, they're a very pratical german cars.

The problem is they're not much fun. They've had an A4 two door for a couple of years now; the convertible. BMW's not going to see any competiton from a an A5; totally different type of buyer. The A5 buyer, most likely would never have looked a 3 series coupe because it's just too "sporty".

[SpeedFreak!]

VW... oh, excuse me... Audi has been building some good cars lately. I owned a 2001 Audi S4 and loved the car. However... my 330i ZHP kicks its ever loving ass! :rocks: Audi is good... but BMW clearly owns it's lop sided ass.

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by cosmosblau

Cmon-

it's a 2 door PASSAT.

No it isn't. Passat is based now on the Golf platform, previously it was always based on the just superseded A4 platform of the time. The new A4/A5 will be built on a platform that will be uniquely Audi.

[JamieA]

Originally Posted by obLu

Audi's (I just sold my 2nd) are awesome *cars*. Much better, imo, as everyday useful transportation ... well, except for the backseat in my A4. Very solid, very well built, awd provides a lot of security especially in wet weather, well crafted interiors, realistic gadget options (I think a lot of BMW electronics are superfluous. In other terms, they're a very pratical german cars.

The problem is they're not much fun. They've had an A4 two door for a couple of years now; the convertible. BMW's not going to see any competiton from a an A5; totally different type of buyer. The A5 buyer, most likely would never have looked a 3 series coupe because it's just too "sporty".

I think this is a pretty good assessment fo the matter. It is really MB who should be concerned, not BMW.

Audi and BMW may both be based in Bavaria, but they are worlds apart on philosophy and outlook.

[Bimmerista]

Someone asked what the GT-R is; I think it is a new gen Skyline, but here it will be released as an Infinity. At Tokyo I think that Nissan intro'd it as a GT-R prototype.

Rumoured to have 400++ Hp

[lux.sh]

competitors are really coming up here. Now Audi is going to steal more sales from bmw.

Honestly, at this rate, I think its just matter of time.

[Bimmerista]

Perhaps, but it can go both ways - look, I went to B from A, based upon the (mostly false) promise of sports sedan made by A. Now Audis are very well build, safe cars (as mentiond by someone else in this post), I have nothing but good memories and would choose and Audi over Mercedes any day. But when I test drove the e90, I understood what a sports sedan is and the Audi is not it. It may get closer with the B8 and the new-gen quattro (40-60 split), but we'll see.