[mmm def]

I'm just thinking at work about this..I had a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT (turbo manual)..it was a fine car. I am not trying to sound like a snob..but imo the 3 series drives so much better than its competitors. Is it the 50/50 weight? The quality of materials?

Do you really think the japanese are using inferior suspension technology? I don't..they are just as smart as the germans. SO why is even a G35/G37 night and day to our cars?

I don't get it.

Sorry if i sound like a snob..I like any good cars (in their own way). My last 5 cars were 4 hondas and the Subaru, and my other car is a Honda Fit..so sorry if I am bashing the Japanese.

[3onDubs]

Higher quality parts + better engineering =

[Pimp Star]

Endless testing and Research + A near perfect 50/50 weight balance + Drivers designing the cars instead of engineers = B.M.W.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by mmm def

I'm just thinking at work about this..I had a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT (turbo manual)..it was a fine car. I am not trying to sound like a snob..what imo the 3 series drives so much better than its competitors. Is it the 50/50 weight? The quality of materials?

Do you really think the japanese are using inferior suspension technology? I don't..they are just as smart as the germans. SO why is even a G35/G37 night and day to our cars?

I don't get it.

Sorry if i sound like a snob..I like any good cars (in their own way). My last 5 cars were 4 hondas and the Subaru, and my other car is a Honda Fit..so sorry if I am bashing the Japanese.

The absolute level of engineering...!

[achien]

ask Nick or Rob...

Originally Posted by mmm def

I'm just thinking at work about this..I had a 2005 Subaru Legacy GT (turbo manual)..it was a fine car. I am not trying to sound like a snob..what imo the 3 series drives so much better than its competitors. Is it the 50/50 weight? The quality of materials?

Do you really think the japanese are using inferior suspension technology? I don't..they are just as smart as the germans. SO why is even a G35/G37 night and day to our cars?

I don't get it.

Sorry if i sound like a snob..I like any good cars (in their own way). My last 5 cars were 4 hondas and the Subaru, and my other car is a Honda Fit..so sorry if I am bashing the Japanese.

[noro]

It's all in the suspension. It can be so simple yet so complex. BMW control arm design allows the car to maintain certain characteristics at all possible angles of turn, lean etc. Add the 50/50 weight distro and just general high quality of craftsmanship and you got yourself a winner.

I mean think about, a car battery is one heavy-a$$ object, I cannot believe there are companies out there still that haven't shoved the think into the trunk. My frond popped the hood of his A4 the other day and I was shocked t o see it not only in the front but also mounted so high up in the hood.

[TheAcAvenger]

mods and me.

[Chowbow]

The drivers. Because, you know, all BMW drivers are God's gift to motoring.

For clarification: sarcasm.

[!Xoible]

i dont think G35/G37 are day and night compared to 335. they handle pretty well.. maybe 80-90% of 335's handling, but then again 335's handling is like 80% of porsches. help stop the ignorance

[smiley]

Originally Posted by mantis

i dont think G35/G37 are day and night compared to 335. they handle pretty well.. maybe 80-90% of 335's handling, but then again 335's handling is like 80% of porsches. help stop the ignorance

Porches owner : " The BMW 3 Series are day and night campared to our Porsche."

[FirstClass]

The 50/50 weight distribution, while better than most POS cars that are forward biased, is less than ideal from a handling prospective. Rear bias is the way to go.

[ElCapitan]

Originally Posted by FirstClass

The 50/50 weight distribution, while better than most POS cars that are forward biased, is less than ideal from a handling prospective. Rear bias is the way to go.

Hmmm. No. 50/50 is the best IOT acheive as neutral handling as possible. F1 car have 50/50. Next best is rear biased.

[O-cha]

50/50, stiff chassis, and suspension components.

[younghov85]

Its really in BMW's DNA. Honda and toyota are designed to last and BMW's are built to perform. I would agree with the suspension and 50/50 distrubution, but its just something that they have been doing for so long and always looking for ways to improve. They dont focus as much on interior design, just take what they have been doing and edit it a little. They let the other companies make such drastic transformations, instead of keeping it simple. Just like someone else said about, drivers design their cars, engineers just get everything to actually work efficiently.

[Leesi]

Is it really 50/50? I heard it's 51.2/48.8

[Chowbow]

I don't think the 50/50 is such a big deal. Unless you're not accelerating / decelerating, which is the only time you have 50/50 distribution, then the weight distribution is off. A lot of what other companies cannot seemingly replicate is getting the suspension components and geometry to work quite as well as BMW has. How small changes in angles and alignments occur when a load is applied to that side of the vehicle, etc.

[ElCapitan]

Originally Posted by Chowbow

I don't think the 50/50 is such a big deal. Unless you're not accelerating / decelerating, which is the only time you have 50/50 distribution, then the weight distribution is off. A lot of what other companies cannot seemingly replicate is getting the suspension components and geometry to work quite as well as BMW has. How small changes in angles and alignments occur when a load is applied to that side of the vehicle, etc.

Even when you are not accelerating / decelerating, the weight distribution still affects the dynamic of the car.

[Chowbow]

Agreed, but I don't think that's the reason BMWs handle well. A rear biased car will corner better while decelerating than a balanced one, and vice versa for acceleration. A balanced car is usually the best compromise for a versatile track / road.

[ElCapitan]

Originally Posted by Chowbow

Agreed, but I don't think that's the reason BMWs handle well. A rear biased car will corner better while decelerating than a balanced one, and vice versa for acceleration. A balanced car is usually the best compromise for a versatile track / road.

Well I think the weight distribution on BMW does play a role in the way they feel but it doesn't tell all. Agreed that rear biased cars corner better when decelerating (logical since the weight shifts toward the front while still have significant weight on the pushing wheels). That is why in Porsche 911 the driver has to learn and master the brake-steer technique while a car with a 50/50 weight dist are better if the braking is done right before steering into a corner. Rear biased cars have a completely different dynamic.

[Ausgang]

The reason a BMW feels like a BMW is IMO due to chassis dynamics. BMW better understands the interplay between weight balance, strength of materials, and the interplay between the unibody, the suspension system, and the wheel and tire package.

In other words, you can't take a unibody designed for ease of construction and slap on some fancy springs, control arms, etc and think the car is going to feel and handle well. Every change ---- such as substitution of aluminum for a given suspension part has effects on all the other parts. Similarly, a switch from high strength low alloy steel in one area to ultra high strength low alloy steel will have an effect on all other systems --- which eventually effect 'feel'.

BMW's niche (IMO) is in taking practical and functional vehicle (chassis) design to a level closer to single-purpose performance/luxury result. Incidentally, none of this has anything to do with flame surfacing, bangle butts, hoffmeister kinks, or the rest of the exterior 'art' that play little role in the function of our Bimmers.

It's no easy trick to integrate the systems which have to work together to give us the 'feel' we have. It also takes a lot of pushiness and patience with/from BMW's tier 1 suppliers I would assume.

I will say this also -- It's definately NOT the quality of the components, as the kiritsu serving Japanesse producers still provide more uniform higher quality parts than anybody. It's how those parts come together that makes a BMW worth it.

[aldersonjames2002]

Why do porsche's handle so well then.. they are rear engined pendulums... but yet they can scoot around like they are on rails.

[ElCapitan]

Originally Posted by aldersonjames2002

Why do porsche's handle so well then.. they are rear engined pendulums... but yet they can scoot around like they are on rails.

They don't handle that well. The Cayman/Boster platform handle better than the 911 because MR setup (closer 50/50) > RR setup. Porsche is stuck with RR 911 because it is their unique identity bread and butter.