[Dave07997S]

Even though this manual transmission does have its flaws I wouldn't have bought this car with an automatic

[HiFi]

i dont know if anyone has talked about this out in youtuber land as yet, but as an owner of G80 Manual and now G87 LCI manual, there is something definately different. The G87 LCI is miles better than the G80 transmission. I dont get insane rev spike when clutching/declutching at idle like i did on the G80, the throws are smoother (same length though), where i had a CDV and clutch stop in the G80, i dont neven need to bother with the clutch stop in the G87, it feels shorter , more predicatble when releasing the clutch. 1-2 shifts also marginally feels easier at WOT. I do have CDV delete on the G87 LCI as well just for completeness of information. I wonder if BMW took the learnings from the supra and the Z4 Manual and dropped that transmission into the LCI cars. Keen to know whether G80 LCI manuals are feeling any different as well...

[jmg]

Originally Posted by ednir98

I see a bunch of you guys saying this, for the hundredth time, how does the 6MT feel like an after thought? What's so wrong with it? What exactly would you change about it?

The 6MT isn't an afterthought, but what I think people are getting at is that a 6MT wasn't developed to handle the torque of the S58 at above 406lb-ft and still be reliable enough as a consumer vehicle. It would have cost them millions. Instead, they have limited the torque for the G87 and G80/2 unless it is equipped with the ZF8. In reality, however, it can probably handle more, but will need service or replacement sooner.

[Bimmer Frank]

Originally Posted by jmg

The 6MT isn't an afterthought, but what I think people are getting at is that a 6MT wasn't developed to handle the torque of the S58 at above 406lb-ft and still be reliable enough as a consumer vehicle. It would have cost them millions. Instead, they have limited the torque for the G87 and G80/2 unless it is equipped with the ZF8. In reality, however, it can probably handle more, but will need service or replacement sooner.

According to Wikipedia it can handle 600nm or 443 lb.ft but to your point, that would likely mean much less longevity, hence why they capped it in the LCI compared to the auto.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_S6-53_transmission

[imyourmaster]

Most of the vehicles I've owned over a span of 30 plus years were manual transmissions. I'm on my fifth M2 now, current one being a G87 with AT. The first three F87s I owned were equipped with the DCT. The fourth F87 I owned was equipped with a manual. I purposely bought the manual because I wanted to go back to my roots. I did not dislike the manual BUT I do not miss it even a tiny bit. The DCT and ZF8 transmissions on the M2 are fabulous!

[bluekitty]

I have the manual. I have read allot of negative reviews of the manual. But, I don't know what they are comparing it to. I've owned and have driven lots of manual vehicles and the 6MT in the G87 is pretty nice.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by bluekitty

I have the manual. I have read allot of negative reviews of the manual. But, I don't know what they are comparing it to. I've owned and have driven lots of manual vehicles and the 6MT in the G87 is pretty nice.

Me too. After I got my 2023 M2 I was surprised at all the negative posts regarding the manual transmission. All were 180 degrees opposite my experience. My M2's clutch/transmission were fantastic.

Yeah, I had shift assist on from Day 1. I can rev match but shift assist did it better. Consistently better.

[Boost112]

Originally Posted by ednir98

I see a bunch of you guys saying this, for the hundredth time, how does the 6MT feel like an after thought? What's so wrong with it? What exactly would you change about it?

I want to start by saying this is just my personal opinion. I own an E36 M3 as one of my track cars and have friends with various manual BMWs. I've been fortunate enough to drive everything from the E30, E36, E39, E46, E90, and F87 to JDM and domestic cars.

In my experience, BMW G87 shifters are not particularly impressive. They often feel rubbery, with an awkward and uninspiring 1-2 shift. The gearing is quite long, so you’re essentially in 3rd gear if you want to hit the canyons.

For BMWs, it's almost expected that you'll need to remove the clutch delay valve, add a clutch stop, and eventually install a short shift kit just to achieve the feel you’d expect from other sports cars. After going through this routine multiple times, I've realized it's not worth the effort for a shifter feel that other manufacturers offer straight from the factory.

To my knowledge, BMW hasn’t put much development into their manual transmissions lately. The same transmission introduced with the 1M was carried over to the F87 and G80 models. In contrast, Porsche offers far superior shifter experiences, and I genuinely believe Honda has some of the best shifters in the industry.

As for my own needs, I opted for the automatic because it's well-engineered for the S58 engine. The BMW factory race team uses the ZF8 automatic, not the 6-speed manual. The gearing in the automatic feels much better suited for the car, especially on track. I want to focus on braking, steering, and managing the car, rather than fussing over shifting. While the automatic has its own shortcomings, it aligns better with what I want and need from the car.

Once again...i drove both...i made my decision AFTER driving both. Buying the car in Manual just becuase its the last one to come with a stick...doesnt make sense to me.

My .02

[kyrix1st]

Originally Posted by Boost112

I want to start by saying this is just my personal opinion. I own an E36 M3 as one of my track cars and have friends with various manual BMWs. I've been fortunate enough to drive everything from the E30, E36, E39, E46, E90, and F87 to JDM and domestic cars.

In my experience, BMW G87 shifters are not particularly impressive. They often feel rubbery, with an awkward and uninspiring 1-2 shift. The gearing is quite long, so you’re essentially in 3rd gear if you want to hit the canyons.

For BMWs, it's almost expected that you'll need to remove the clutch delay valve, add a clutch stop, and eventually install a short shift kit just to achieve the feel you’d expect from other sports cars. After going through this routine multiple times, I've realized it's not worth the effort for a shifter feel that other manufacturers offer straight from the factory.

To my knowledge, BMW hasn’t put much development into their manual transmissions lately. The same transmission introduced with the 1M was carried over to the F87 and G80 models. In contrast, Porsche offers far superior shifter experiences, and I genuinely believe Honda has some of the best shifters in the industry.

As for my own needs, I opted for the automatic because it's well-engineered for the S58 engine. The BMW factory race team uses the ZF8 automatic, not the 6-speed manual. The gearing in the automatic feels much better suited for the car, especially on track. I want to focus on braking, steering, and managing the car, rather than fussing over shifting. While the automatic has its own shortcomings, it aligns better with what I want and need from the car.

Once again...i drove both...i made my decision AFTER driving both. Buying the car in Manual just becuase its the last one to come with a stick...doesnt make sense to me.

My .02

The GT4 uses a heavily modified, torque-converter-deleted zf8 that greatly reduces the rotating mass of a typical ZF8. It is not the same transmission on these G8xs with much slower downshifts.

If DCT were offered I would have gone that route because the shift speeds are comparable to an all-out race car from the start, but the ZF8 isn't fast or engaging enough to sway me in that direction.

[fzr100098]

Originally Posted by Boost112

In my experience, BMW G87 shifters are not particularly impressive. They often feel rubbery, with an awkward and uninspiring 1-2 shift. The gearing is quite long, so you’re essentially in 3rd gear if you want to hit the canyons.

To my knowledge, BMW hasn’t put much development into their manual transmissions lately. The same transmission introduced with the 1M was carried over to the F87 and G80 models. In contrast, Porsche offers far superior shifter experiences, and I genuinely believe Honda has some of the best shifters in the industry.

As for my own needs, I opted for the automatic because it's well-engineered for the S58 engine. The BMW factory race team uses the ZF8 automatic, not the 6-speed manual. The gearing in the automatic feels much better suited for the car, especially on track. I want to focus on braking, steering, and managing the car, rather than fussing over shifting. While the automatic has its own shortcomings, it aligns better with what I want and need from the car.

Once again...I drove both...I made my decision AFTER driving both. Buying the car in manual just because its the last one to come with a stick...doesn't make sense to me.

My .02

/thread

the S2000 has an excellent transmission, unfortunately it's also quite slow and underpowered

[Boost112]

Originally Posted by fzr100098

/thread

the S2000 has an excellent transmission, unfortunately it's also quite slow and underpowered

...god...i wish i could fit in a s2000...so much fun...slow car fast driving...so good

[imyourmaster]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

The GT4 uses a heavily modified, torque-converter-deleted zf8 that greatly reduces the rotating mass of a typical ZF8. It is not the same transmission on these G8xs with much slower downshifts.

If DCT were offered I would have gone that route because the shift speeds are comparable to an all-out race car from the start, but the ZF8 isn't fast or engaging enough to sway me in that direction.

The CS/CSL Transmission Flash by kubax86 (a member on this forum) will most definitely improve the shifting performance of the ZF8. Many members here had the flash performed by him and can't stop raving about it.

[Boost112]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

The GT4 uses a heavily modified, torque-converter-deleted zf8 that greatly reduces the rotating mass of a typical ZF8. It is not the same transmission on these G8xs with much slower downshifts.

If DCT were offered I would have gone that route because the shift speeds are comparable to an all-out race car from the start, but the ZF8 isn't fast or engaging enough to sway me in that direction.

Did not know that...thanks for the extra info with gt4 ZF8...greatly appreciated!

[EMZWEI]

I simply wanted the automatic because I’ve also got a 6sp manual ND2 Miata. The Miata in my mind is the true “classic” sports car, lower HP, truly engaging steering and suspension and makes you feel like you are in a true sports car while just driving around town. For me, the G87 is my high HP street and highway cruiser/GT car and in no way I would think it would be more fun to row through the gears in that compared to my Miata. Hence the auto.

[DrewNewM2]

Originally Posted by EMZWEI

I simply wanted the automatic because I’ve also got a 6sp manual ND2 Miata. The Miata in my mind is the true “classic” sports car, lower HP, truly engaging steering and suspension and makes you feel like you are in a true sports car while just driving around town. For me, the G87 is my high HP street and highway cruiser/GT car and in no way I would think it would be more fun to row through the gears in that compared to my Miata. Hence the auto.

I have a heavily modified 2020 Subaru STi and a 2 door Manual 6G Bronco and I still opted for a manual G87. Save the manuals!

I will say my STi with short shift kit and aftermarket clutch is a much better shifting manual car than the M2. Shorter more precise shifts but still don’t wish I got an auto.

[OneTwo3]

Originally Posted by EMZWEI

I simply wanted the automatic because I’ve also got a 6sp manual ND2 Miata. The Miata in my mind is the true “classic” sports car, lower HP, truly engaging steering and suspension and makes you feel like you are in a true sports car while just driving around town. For me, the G87 is my high HP street and highway cruiser/GT car and in no way I would think it would be more fun to row through the gears in that compared to my Miata. Hence the auto.

A 2025 ND3 Miata is the other car I was looking at. If you had to choose between the two, which would you go for?

[EMZWEI]

[QUOTE=OneTwo3;31840908]A 2025 ND3 Miata is the other car I was looking at. If you had to choose between the two, which would you go for?

The thing is that they are completely different cars with the only common denominator is that they are both fun to drive cars but each in their own way. This is the reason why I own both. The Miata is raw comparatively and just gives that classic small fun sports car experience with the wind in your hair. It’s almost always fun to drive in every environment and you can just whip it around any corner even at 25mph and it’s a fun experience. The part it severely lacks is what I love about the M2 which is the amazing raw power. However, to drive the M2 doing daily stuff is kinda boring when comparing it to the Miata. Another big plus with the M2 is that it just eats away highway miles comfortably compared to the Miata. I drove the car (M2) straight for 10 hours on the highway right after I bought it and it was an enjoyable experience. I would have been so fatigued if I drove the Miata that same distance.

[BradMX5]

[QUOTE=EMZWEI;31840925]

Originally Posted by OneTwo3

A 2025 ND3 Miata is the other car I was looking at. If you had to choose between the two, which would you go for?

The thing is that they are completely different cars with the only common denominator is that they are both fun to drive cars but each in their own way. This is the reason why I own both. The Miata is raw comparatively and just gives that classic small fun sports car experience with the wind in your hair. It’s almost always fun to drive in every environment and you can just whip it around any corner even at 25mph and it’s a fun experience. The part it severely lacks is what I love about the M2 which is the amazing raw power. However, to drive the M2 doing daily stuff is kinda boring when comparing it to the Miata. Another big plus with the M2 is that it just eats away highway miles comfortably compared to the Miata. I drove the car (M2) straight for 10 hours on the highway right after I bought it and it was an enjoyable experience. I would have been so fatigued if I drove the Miata that same distance.

I'll actually be trading in my ND2 RF for the M2 once in arrives in a week or 2.

Definitely going to miss the driving feel and the way Mazda does their manuals, it's just perfect in my book. Truly is a car to get if you want to feel connected to the car and road.

I just hit 85k miles in it and have driving out of state in it multiple times. It does wear on you a little bit on long trips but nothing too crazy. Also can't beat getting 40 MPG on my way to work every morning!

I need something slightly more practical and also wanted to try something different. I'm sure I'll end up getting a used Miata down the road or see what the next iteration of it will be.

[ronin13013]

Just for conversation sake. If Ford can afford to do it why can't BMW? I've only owned 3 BMWs.
No automatics. A high HP manual M would sell like hotcakes in the 80 to 100k price point. I would buy it.

Originally Posted by jmg

The 6MT isn't an afterthought, but what I think people are getting at is that a 6MT wasn't developed to handle the torque of the S58 at above 406lb-ft and still be reliable enough as a consumer vehicle. It would have cost them millions. Instead, they have limited the torque for the G87 and G80/2 unless it is equipped with the ZF8. In reality, however, it can probably handle more, but will need service or replacement sooner.

[Crazyotter]

Originally Posted by OneTwo3

I know this topic has been beaten to death, but I’m conflicted.

I’ve read that the power this car makes is better suited for the auto transmission, but I’ve also seen videos that say the manual is the more fun option.

I know the CS will be launching with the auto only, so technically I could get a standard M2 in auto, add a tune and I’d be in CS territory.

But then again, if I do a manual, it’s the closest I can get to a 911 GT3 without dishing out 250k+.

What are your opinions?

I love MT but from what I’ve heard, this car should definitely be automatic.
Also, the auto journalists who do the write ups for these kind of cars ALWAYS say go MT. It’s gotten to a point where I don’t even read their opinions I just check the performance numbers and move on.

I’m sure the M2 is fun with a MT so go with your gut

[ronin13013]

Just saying a 550 to 575hp manual rear wheel drive M2 CS would be so much fun. A collectible for sure. Performance numbers... I get it. I've never owned an automatic BMW.

Originally Posted by Crazyotter

I love MT but from what I’ve heard, this car should definitely be automatic.
Also, the auto journalists who do the write ups for these kind of cars ALWAYS say go MT. It’s gotten to a point where I don’t even read their opinions I just check the performance numbers and move on.

I’m sure the M2 is fun with a MT so go with your gut

[LAGWAGN]

Originally Posted by imyourmaster

Most of the vehicles I've owned over a span of 30 plus years were manual transmissions. I'm on my fifth M2 now, current one being a G87 with AT. The first three F87s I owned were equipped with the DCT. The fourth F87 I owned was equipped with a manual. I purposely bought the manual because I wanted to go back to my roots. I did not dislike the manual BUT I do not miss it even a tiny bit. The DCT and ZF8 transmissions on the M2 are fabulous!

Glad to know there are people even more addicted than I am. I’m only on my 3rd M2. 😉

Edit to stay on topic: 2 manuals and 1 DCT. Went with the manual on the G87 because I don’t commute. I would like to experience the AT though.