[Squidget]

Originally Posted by Fastfwd

I’m not yet sure if I shouldn’t be alarmed that the service is expected to be such a valuable revenue stream. I had zero out of pocket expense for repairs with my Performance Pack 1 Mustang and I actually drove it like it was designed to be driven. I realize that these new BMW cars come with complementary service for 3 years 36k miles too though.

...

I have never encountered so much controversy over a car with a manual vs automatic transmission.

AFAIK dealers still get paid for complementary service, as it's subsidized by BMW. And yes, servicing is a big part of their income.

Yeah, trust me, the controversy over AT vs. manual has been loud for a while now, you may have just missed it. As you noted, it's become louder as the MT era closes.

It REALLY got loud a couple years back when the 2 series dropped the manual, and the Supra and Integra hadn't brought the manual back yet, and it wasn't clear if the G87 would even offer it. It felt like manuals were only a couple years from extinction.

We got a little resurgence here over the last couple years (Supra,Integra,Z4), but we all know the clock is running.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Fastfwd

Update to this search for an allocation. I realize this is TLDR for most of you. So, skip the comment. It’s just a friendly update on my journey for anyone interested.

I called about a half dozen dealerships around the country. I previously had a little luck finding a few cars that weren’t yet sold, but this time every single one was a customer car on order. I saw one dealership reflect 13 incoming vehicles. Possibly spread across multiple dealerships under one company name, but nevertheless. Unfortunately, the guy I talked to stated that the salesperson involved might keep any information on a customer falling through to themselves to keep the prospect of the sale to anyone else for themselves.

So, I got a range of answers on how many people each had waiting in line for an allocation. One dealership insisted that financing was a contingency of an out of state deal citing the prospect of penalties from BMW if the car is shipped out of the country. I’ve heard this before when buying a car out of state, but it sounded a lot like sour grapes over not getting the prospect of service on the car after the sale. He specifically mentioned not getting to service the vehicle in conjunction with the prospect of not getting the financing business being a deal breaker.

I’m not yet sure if I shouldn’t be alarmed that the service is expected to be such a valuable revenue stream. I had zero out of pocket expense for repairs with my Performance Pack 1 Mustang and I actually drove it like it was designed to be driven. I realize that these new BMW cars come with complementary service for 3 years 36k miles too though.

Every single dealership claimed that they sell at MSRP. Some were a little slippery about add on charges that they can ‘drop off’ the final price. Generally, the timeframe of expectation for a delivery seemed to magically be around 6 months no matter how many people there were on the waitlist for an allocation. I did note at least one that seemed like the brightest prospect of those called. One was kind enough to spell it out that they had rather undersell and exceed expectations than create a false sense of expectation.

If anyone has any leads on dealerships with allocations and no waiting list feel free to private message me. The sale of my Mustang went through this week and I got a nice price for it considering the mileage. So, there’s not much holding me back from placing an order. If that’s what I’m doing the sooner the better.

I’m currently doing some soul searching about my spec on the M2 if I place an order. Personally, I drove manual transmission vehicles from 16 to my early 30s and I still don’t miss it to be honest. I have never encountered so much controversy over a car with a manual vs automatic transmission.

I get it that people are distraught over manuals not being as available as they once were, but this ZF8 transmission would likely be the best automatic transmission I’ve ever owned. I hear about it in so many different vehicles and it sounds like BMW really have it tuned to perfection for the M2.

I’m also a little bummed out that the manual can’t be optioned with adaptive cruise control. Even the BMW R1250RT motorcycles have adaptive cruise and there is definitely a manual transmission on those. I’m conflicted on the carbon roof with a black spec car too. Red or white I might prefer it simply for the contrast. Red pulls off the sunroof ok though imo. I’ll never track the car. So, that’s a toss-up for me personally. Seems like a big liability if something happens to it though.

FWIW, bought a 2022 MINI Cooper S at an out of state MINI dealer. Then bought a 2023 MINI Cooper JCW at an out of state MINI dealer. Then bought a 2023 M2 at an out of state dealer.

No financing involved. All 3 purchases involved a trade in. Trade ins were fully paid for and I paid the balance owed via a personal check which promptly cleared.

No dealer balked at the sale any reason and this included the fact being I lived anywhere from 200 miles to nearly 900 miles distant I would not use the selling dealer for servicing. (For the M2 there is a local BMW dealer. For the MINIs the local BMW dealer is able to do some servicing but for the free 10K mile services I'll have to book the MINI at the nearest MINI dealer, which is in Merriam KS.)

In my search for an M2 I did encounter several dealers who had allocations but were saving these for local buyers.

Be aware at least based on what I was told BMW "requires" sales tax be collected if the vehicle is financed. While I was not financing any of these out of state purchases every dealer initially wanted to collect sales tax. A few claimed the collected tax would be forwarded to Arkansas.

I spoke with someone at the Arkansas Department of Finance. I was told if I pay the sales tax to an out of state dealer the odds are the dealer would *not* send this to Arkansas. When I showed up to register the car I'd be required to pay the Arkansas sales tax and then file for a refund to try to get the sales tax back that was collected. I would probably not be successful. I was told Arkansas had no agreement with any state regarding sales tax collection/forwarding.

So if you are considering buying a car out of state you need to research how sales tax is handled by the selling dealer and your state. Otherwise you could find yourself paying sales tax twice...

I went with a manual equipped M2. One reason is the car I ended up buying off the showroom floor was not spoken for and just happened to have a 6-speed installed. I would have accepted an automatic equipped M2 just as fast.

[Fastfwd]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

FWIW, bought a 2022 MINI Cooper S at an out of state MINI dealer. Then bought a 2023 MINI Cooper JCW at an out of state MINI dealer. Then bought a 2023 M2 at an out of state dealer.

No financing involved. All 3 purchases involved a trade in. Trade ins were fully paid for and I paid the balance owed via a personal check which promptly cleared.

No dealer balked at the sale any reason and this included the fact being I lived anywhere from 200 miles to nearly 900 miles distant I would not use the selling dealer for servicing. (For the M2 there is a local BMW dealer. For the MINIs the local BMW dealer is able to do some servicing but for the free 10K mile services I'll have to book the MINI at the nearest MINI dealer, which is in Merriam KS.)

In my search for an M2 I did encounter several dealers who had allocations but were saving these for local buyers.

Be aware at least based on what I was told BMW "requires" sales tax be collected if the vehicle is financed. While I was not financing any of these out of state purchases every dealer initially wanted to collect sales tax. A few claimed the collected tax would be forwarded to Arkansas.

I spoke with someone at the Arkansas Department of Finance. I was told if I pay the sales tax to an out of state dealer the odds are the dealer would *not* send this to Arkansas. When I showed up to register the car I'd be required to pay the Arkansas sales tax and then file for a refund to try to get the sales tax back that was collected. I would probably not be successful. I was told Arkansas had no agreement with any state regarding sales tax collection/forwarding.

So if you are considering buying a car out of state you need to research how sales tax is handled by the selling dealer and your state. Otherwise you could find yourself paying sales tax twice...

I went with a manual equipped M2. One reason is the car I ended up buying off the showroom floor was not spoken for and just happened to have a 6-speed installed. I would have accepted an automatic equipped M2 just as fast.

Funny you should mention the sales tax. I flew to Boise, Idaho to pick up my Mustang PP1 with Magneride. $53k MSRP for $46k made the deal worth the trip. I’m stunned I just sold it with 46k well-loved miles on it for $38k.

They tried to pitch to me that they were collecting Retail Sales Tax rate of some absurd number like 8.5% or whatever it is in my home city. I almost lost it. I thought I had negotiated a really spectacular deal when they launched that on me. The vehicle sales tax rate is not the same as retail sales tax. It’s a fraction of it.

Needless to say they collected zero sales tax and boy they were sore about the deal. They tried to play that card on cars being taken out of the country being the reason they insist on collecting the fees, but I wasn't having it. It's not like paying them extra for tax is going to keep the car from going oversees anyway as far as I'm aware.

I sort of feel the same way about the manual. I might accept a manual equipped M2 if the right deal came up and the rest of the options were right.

[Fastfwd]

Ok, so, the GM of the local dealer sent out a chain email and I responded to that relaying that the $5k over MSRP was unacceptable. He did respond and asked that I call him.

Ends up got the order in with a $1k deposit and it’s for MSRP. I am thankful it did finally happen. The reason this was such a stink was because they have an allocation in 111 status with nobody’s name on it.

There was some stress over my Mustang sale completing and if this allocation might go to 112 status and not be able to be modified. Actually, they may have had 2 and there may be one left in 111 status. Not sure exactly that was a sort of vague detail.

Anyway, I got my spec locked in. I know it’s an emotional topic, but I went with Black Sapphire Metallic, Cognac, black wheels, and the ZF8 auto. My sincerest apologies to all of those so passionate about the manual transmission. I just couldn’t bring myself to go manual. I also skipped the carbon roof, but basically ordered all other options besides M and Carbon package.

I currently live in the Great Plains and it’s laughably flat country here with nothing but straight roads. Sport bike motorcyclists here ride their bikes on ‘The Clover’ apparently. It’s an entry ramp for a turnpike somewhere around here. They just go in circles from what I gather.

I’ve got one road a half hour north of me that has 6 turns. An hour and a half south there is a 2.5 mile stretch of road that is the closest thing to a mountain road I have found.

Basically, Arkansas has some incredible driving roads about 4 hours away. Texas has some nice driving in the Hill Country, but that is about 6.5 hours away. That’s why I ride a BMW R1250RS Sport Touring motorcycle these days. That’s also why I chose to spec my M2 for a little extra comfort getting to the only really exciting driving there is in my part of the country currently.

Thank you everyone for your assistance with this.

[menikmati]

Originally Posted by Fastfwd

Anyway, I got my spec locked in. I know it’s an emotional topic, but I went with Black Sapphire Metallic, Cognac, black wheels, and the ZF8 auto. My sincerest apologies to all of those so passionate about the manual transmission. I just couldn’t bring myself to go manual. I also skipped the carbon roof, but basically ordered all other options besides M and Carbon package.

....

Thank you everyone for your assistance with this.

You absolutely do not have to apologize for getting the spec/build that YOU want. The perfect build is the one that suits YOUR needs the best, not what other people prefer or deem "must-have" options.

Glad you got yours.

[Fastfwd]

Originally Posted by RockCrusher

Be aware at least based on what I was told BMW "requires" sales tax be collected if the vehicle is financed. While I was not financing any of these out of state purchases every dealer initially wanted to collect sales tax. A few claimed the collected tax would be forwarded to Arkansas.

I spoke with someone at the Arkansas Department of Finance. I was told if I pay the sales tax to an out of state dealer the odds are the dealer would *not* send this to Arkansas. When I showed up to register the car I'd be required to pay the Arkansas sales tax and then file for a refund to try to get the sales tax back that was collected. I would probably not be successful. I was told Arkansas had no agreement with any state regarding sales tax collection/forwarding.

So if you are considering buying a car out of state you need to research how sales tax is handled by the selling dealer and your state. Otherwise you could find yourself paying sales tax twice...
.

I shouldn't comment any further. I'm not trying to soil the image of BMW now that I'm coming into the brand, but I had one dealer try to apply some City 'Vehicle Use Tax.'

https://www.phoenix.gov/finance/plt/...ehicle-use-tax

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but I see nowhere in that description stating that simply purchasing a vehicle in Phoenix requires collection of this tax. In fact, there are clauses citing that if the car is parked in a driveway outside of Phoenix that you are also exempt.

The salesman tried to convince me that simply driving the vehicle off the lot on the streets of Phoenix meant they had to collect the tax. That, frankly, sounds like extremely poor judgement to make such a claim if it is not accurate. They also insisted upon financing some portion of the vehicle price. That may also be tied to trying to collect more taxes on the car.

They also added $5k over MSRP on a car they had to offer. I was offended by the way they handled it frankly.

It would seem like falsely claiming to collect taxes should be a crime, but maybe it isn't. I just hope others will be more aware based on these experiences.

[Squidget]

That does seem sketchy AF.

I may live in Taxachussets, but at least the rules for car fees/taxes are well-documented and clear.

[Rx-7ames]

A couple points here.

1. Everyone should get the auto. It's faster than manual, and better in every way. That will also make my car (6MT) more rare. Thank you.

2. My dealership collects taxes on every sale, even if you pay cash. It isn't a law. It isn't a state requirement. It is required at my dealership. We have had too many people go to their out of state DMV and refuse to pay additional taxes. Then we get an angry phone call saying we were supposed to fund their taxes and DMV fees. It's crazy the things people try to pull. So now we collect all taxes and forward it to the DMV. I don't like it, but thata the way it is.

[RockCrusher]

Originally Posted by Fastfwd

I shouldn't comment any further. I'm not trying to soil the image of BMW now that I'm coming into the brand, but I had one dealer try to apply some City 'Vehicle Use Tax.'

https://www.phoenix.gov/finance/plt/...ehicle-use-tax

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but I see nowhere in that description stating that simply purchasing a vehicle in Phoenix requires collection of this tax. In fact, there are clauses citing that if the car is parked in a driveway outside of Phoenix that you are also exempt.

The salesman tried to convince me that simply driving the vehicle off the lot on the streets of Phoenix meant they had to collect the tax. That, frankly, sounds like extremely poor judgement to make such a claim if it is not accurate. They also insisted upon financing some portion of the vehicle price. That may also be tied to trying to collect more taxes on the car.

They also added $5k over MSRP on a car they had to offer. I was offended by the way they handled it frankly.

It would seem like falsely claiming to collect taxes should be a crime, but maybe it isn't. I just hope others will be more aware based on these experiences.

When I looked into buying a car from a CA dealer I asked about sales tax collection and was told I'd be given something that said the car was delivered out of state so no sales tax would be collected.

Don't think dealers are breaking the law. Pretty sure their state would be willing to look at the dealer with affection and admiration in collecting sales tax on any vehicle sale.

I don't know how this sales tax works for all states. I would just advise someone buying a car out of state to at least speak to his state's tax office and ask about paying sales tax out of state.

[AZG87]

Originally Posted by Fastfwd

I shouldn't comment any further. I'm not trying to soil the image of BMW now that I'm coming into the brand, but I had one dealer try to apply some City 'Vehicle Use Tax.'

https://www.phoenix.gov/finance/plt/...ehicle-use-tax

Now, correct me if I am wrong, but I see nowhere in that description stating that simply purchasing a vehicle in Phoenix requires collection of this tax. In fact, there are clauses citing that if the car is parked in a driveway outside of Phoenix that you are also exempt.

The salesman tried to convince me that simply driving the vehicle off the lot on the streets of Phoenix meant they had to collect the tax. That, frankly, sounds like extremely poor judgement to make such a claim if it is not accurate. They also insisted upon financing some portion of the vehicle price. That may also be tied to trying to collect more taxes on the car.

They also added $5k over MSRP on a car they had to offer. I was offended by the way they handled it frankly.

It would seem like falsely claiming to collect taxes should be a crime, but maybe it isn't. I just hope others will be more aware based on these experiences.

There will be sales tax in the valley regardless where you buy. The rate will vary by city too don't forget. So for example, buying out in Chandler the % is lower than in Phoenix. Also, I'd walk immediately if they are trying to mark it up on you. MSRP can be had very near by 😉

[akumachu]

Originally Posted by Squidget

That does seem sketchy AF.

I may live in Taxachussets, but at least the rules for car fees/taxes are well-documented and clear.

Which dealership did you get yours from? What fees did you have to pay besides tax? I am in MA and my allocation is supposed to come in late October with Sudbury BMW so I'm trying get a reference point.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by akumachu

Which dealership did you get yours from? What fees did you have to pay besides tax? I am in MA and my allocation is supposed to come in late October with Sudbury BMW so I'm trying get a reference point.

I bought from BMW Warwick in Rhode Island. RI has a tax partnership thing with MA so I didn't have to pay any MA tax*. They charged me a total of $695 for all the paperwork, title, and plates. No ADM.

Edit: I did still have to pay RI sales tax.

[akumachu]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I bought from BMW Warwick in Rhode Island. RI has a tax partnership thing with MA so I didn't have to pay any MA tax. They charged me a total of $695 for all the paperwork, tax, title, and plates. No ADM.

Wow, that's a big saving on the tax. Thanks for the info!

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by akumachu

Wow, that's a big saving on the tax. Thanks for the info!

I just realized I wrote that badly, sorry!

To be super clear on this, you ARE still paying RI sales tax. You just don't get taxed by both states (which CAN happen). I didn't include the MA tax in that number.

[akumachu]

Originally Posted by Squidget

I just realized I wrote that badly, sorry!

To be super clear on this, you ARE still paying RI sales tax. You just don't get taxed by both states (which CAN happen). I didn't include the MA tax in that number.

Yeah, double taxation would be bad.
I saw on facebook Bostobn BMWCCA group featured your nice red car
(I put up a post in the Northeast region about PPF if you have any tips)

[BgsDks]

Originally Posted by mrdudley

It depends on state law. In CA, all deposits are refundable. Your build could be delivered to the dealership, and you could just walk away.

You are correct.

“Per California Code, Vehicle Code - VEH § 11736, section C: "It is unlawful for any dealer licensed under this article to do any of the following when brokering a retail sale: Fail to refund any purchase money, including purchase deposits, upon demand by a consumer at any time prior to the consumer's signing of a vehicle purchase agreement with a selling dealer and taking delivery of the vehicle described in the brokering agreement.”