[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by ourlee

My past daily

much cooler than a 718 IMHO. wheels look great, like the more pronounced exhaust tips. also costs 1/3 the price.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

... but a turbo 4 cyl 718 at NINETY FIVE grand is insane. really, what are you gaining over a miata? ...

If you're asking this, you don't understand.

Three points for your consideration:
- No one over 6 feet tall can comfortably fit in a Miata. I'm 6-4; the 718 fit me like a glove.
- The Miata was (and probably still is) arguably the most frequent 'gateway car' to a 982 or a 981. A few of those cats can probably tell you what you're gaining.
- Case in point: Back in 2017, an auto journalist buddy of mine brought a then-new Miata RF along for a drive wth my 718. He drove the 718; it was his first taste of a mid-engine P-car. At the time, his personal car was a modded 228i M Sport; he had an E30 track car, too. His next car purchase? A white 981.

Yes, 95 large is steep. Still worth it for the P-car 'package' for some ... and I figure the majority of enthusiasts know that today, the two cars that hold the most value after new are 1) the 911, and 2) the 718 Cayman.

[two_three_two]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

If you're asking this, you don't understand.

Three points for your consideration:
- No one over 6 feet tall can comfortably fit in a Miata. I'm 6-4; the 718 fit me like a glove.
- The Miata was (and probably still is) arguably the most frequent 'gateway car' to a 982 or a 981. A few of those cats can probably tell you what you're gaining.
- Case in point: Back in 2017, an auto journalist buddy of mine brought a then-new Miata RF along for a drive wth my 718. He drove the 718; it was his first taste of a mid-engine P-car. At the time, his personal car was a modded 228i M Sport; he had an E30 track car, too. His next car purchase? A white 981.

Yes, 95 large is steep. Still worth it for the P-car 'package' for some ... and I figure the majority of enthusiasts know that today, the two cars that hold the most value after new are 1) the 911, and 2) the 718 Cayman.

i've driven both. i am 6'2 and had little issue with fit in NC and ND cars. didn't see 50-60K premium as anywhere near worth it. but i am one person with an opinion, as we all are, and simply dont agree, but thats OK. i dont see the premium in most p-cars, personally.

[NewToM]

Originally Posted by ourlee

My past daily. I daily drove this for 7 years, obviously not a prestige guy

Sorry sir, but that horse attached to your daily is aftermarket. We also see the 64’s and still stick with the not a prestige guy? The lies on this board are crazy…

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by NewToM

Sorry sir, but that horse attached to your daily is aftermarket. We also see the 64’s and still stick with the not a prestige guy? The lies on this board are crazy…

Winner!!!

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by ourlee

Overpriced is subjective. I think a $95k 718 S is worth every penny and would never sell it.

Over-priced can also be objective, i.e., Porsche charging $2,100 for sport seats/memory, or a substantial amount to put leather or Alcantara in the interior of their cars not including it in the already high base price of their cars. Alcantara is not expensive at all, and covering plastic interior pieces is pretty easy (I've done it). Chevy charging buyers $7k for basic features like homelink & auto-dimming side mirrors with integrated turn signals = over-priced. That BMW, Porsche, and Chevy (among others) charge more for the exact same options on more expensive vehicles (3LT interior pkg on a Stingray is $11k while the exact same pkg is $14k on the Z06. Interiors are identical).

Realistically, a 718S is a $50k car loaded if it didn't have the Porsche crest on it. It's good to have choices though.

[curtdragon]

Hard pass on any Porsche that doesn't have a 6. Exception is my childhood dream of a 944.
I think about getting one but feel it would be redundant with the M2.

[ourlee]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Over-priced can also be objective, i.e., Porsche charging $2,100 for sport seats/memory, or a substantial amount to put leather or Alcantara in the interior of their cars not including it in the already high base price of their cars. Alcantara is not expensive at all, and covering plastic interior pieces is pretty easy (I've done it). Chevy charging buyers $7k for basic features like homelink & auto-dimming side mirrors with integrated turn signals = over-priced. That BMW, Porsche, and Chevy (among others) charge more for the exact same options on more expensive vehicles (3LT interior pkg on a Stingray is $11k while the exact same pkg is $14k on the Z06. Interiors are identical).

Realistically, a 718S is a $50k car loaded if it didn't have the Porsche crest on it. It's good to have choices though.

50k, you’re being silly

[Whytar]

The 718 (or 981) is fantastic platform. Maybe one of the best from Porsche. The 4.0 manual is the pick of the bunch (Spyder performance without the compromise on the road). But now you are talking nearly twice the price of a G87.

[Squidget]

Originally Posted by JABCAT

Realistically, a 718S is a $50k car loaded if it didn't have the Porsche crest on it. It's good to have choices though.

With that outstanding suspension and those brakes? I can think of no $50K car in the world that matches that chassis. I must disagree with you on this.

Sure, Porsche has a badge tax even if they aren't making you buy watches, I agree. But the 718 is not a $50K car.

[JABCAT]

Originally Posted by Squidget

With that outstanding suspension and those brakes? I can think of no $50K car in the world that matches that chassis. I must disagree with you on this.

Sure, Porsche has a badge tax even if they aren't making you buy watches, I agree. But the 718 is not a $50K car.

Idk - they seem to depreciate as bad as BMWs. Quick search shows some couple year old, low mileage S versions in the mid-high $60k range. The base 718 even worse. The 718S might be a great car, but it is not a $90K+ car without that crest on it.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by Squidget

With that outstanding suspension and those brakes? I can think of no $50K car in the world that matches that chassis. I must disagree with you on this.

Sure, Porsche has a badge tax even if they aren't making you buy watches, I agree. But the 718 is not a $50K car.

Nah, 718 is like a M240 a $50k car and in same performance category. Maybe $60k, but definitely not a $75k car base.
So the Porsche tax is about $15k on a 718 of any config.

The 718 4.0 is definitely not a $100k car base and $115k configured like I set up my M2. Really $2300 for Nav??? But they are serious.

I'd say a 718 4.0 should cost no more than a M4 competition base price, then add options from there. So about $83k which if you add the $15k tax you get to almost $100k

I'd consider one at those prices, but I just can't see paying $115 for the 718 4.0 when an M2 is $80k with carbon buckets and a fully loaded M4 with 6 speed, carbon buckets and carbon ceramic brakes clocks in at $101k.

I think comparing new to new the M2 fully loaded at $80k (that includes individual color and carbon buckets) is still a good value proposition for me compared to a 718 4.0 configured in almost the same way at $115k.

For me that's about $90k all in vs $127k all in.
That is a big jump.

Pass

[fzr100098]

Originally Posted by Squidget

With that outstanding suspension and those brakes? I can think of no $50K car in the world that matches that chassis. I must disagree with you on this.

Sure, Porsche has a badge tax even if they aren't making you buy watches, I agree. But the 718 is not a $50K car.

What does it cost them to build it? It's near that number - Porsche has highest profits in the industry

Too bad Lotus jacked up the Emira from $70k to over 100, I was interested at 70, even with the issues

[baege]

Originally Posted by techwhiz1

Nah, 718 is like a M240 a $50k car and in same performance category. Maybe $60k, but definitely not a $75k car base.
So the Porsche tax is about $15k on a 718 of any config.

The 718 4.0 is definitely not a $100k car base and $115k configured like I set up my M2. Really $2300 for Nav??? But they are serious.

I'd say a 718 4.0 should cost no more than a M4 competition base price, then add options from there. So about $83k which if you add the $15k tax you get to almost $100k

I'd consider one at those prices, but I just can't see paying $115 for the 718 4.0 when an M2 is $80k with carbon buckets and a fully loaded M4 with 6 speed, carbon buckets and carbon ceramic brakes clocks in at $101k.

I think comparing new to new the M2 fully loaded at $80k (that includes individual color and carbon buckets) is still a good value proposition for me compared to a 718 4.0 configured in almost the same way at $115k.

For me that's about $90k all in vs $127k all in.
That is a big jump.

Pass

thing is 3 years later you will be able to get 115k for that 4.0 versus 60K for that M2

naturally aspirated porsches depreciate at a much lower rate than turbo charged bmws

so which one is really more expensive?

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by baege

thing is 3 years later you will be able to get 115k for that 4.0 versus 60K for that M2

naturally aspirated porsches depreciate at a much lower rate than turbo charged bmws

so which one is really more expensive?

While I might believe low depreciation, it's not no depreciation.

I'm seeing a lot of 3 year old 718 4.0 cars going for $88k-$93k so that gets all your money back isn't accurate. Most of these are low mileage cars. I tend to drive my cars.

I never buy a car for resale value.

The other thing you miss is that opportunity cost of my $37k that I don't have to tie up in a car and can leave invested or assuming I'm paying over time, could invest.

A 718 4.0 isn't a bargain and does not provide value to "me" so I'll be collecting my M2 when they finally build it.

[two_three_two]

porsche bubble is popping. this aint 2022 no more folks, expect the resumption of more normalized depreciation trends. assuming 0% depreciation is a good way to get upside down on a car loan in a hurry

[baege]

[QUOTE=techwhiz1;31721262]While I might believe low depreciation, it's not no depreciation.

I'm seeing a lot of 3 year old 718 4.0 cars going for $88k-$93k so that gets all your money back isn't accurate. Most of these are low mileage cars. I tend to drive my cars.

I never buy a car for resale value.

The other thing you miss is that opportunity cost of my $37k that I don't have to tie up in a car and can leave invested or assuming I'm paying over time, could invest.

A 718 4.0 isn't a bargain and does not provide value to "me" so I'll be collecting my M2 when they finally build it.[/QUOTE

hmm, the US market is different then for 4.0s, in my neck of the woods the 21s pretty much still sell for MSRP if they were not loaded with options

but we do have some differences in our market like a luxury tax which has elevated the price of 24s

[OldButSmooth]

If Porsche made the M2 it would be $30k more expensive than it is. Then again the days of Porsche price gauging may soon come to an end as China has stopped buying their cars, and the Porsche EV's aren't selling....factory closures and the culling of their workforce is no doubt just around the corner for Porsche.

[garageoverflow]

Originally Posted by two_three_two

porsche bubble is popping. this aint 2022 no more folks, expect the resumption of more normalized depreciation trends. assuming 0% depreciation is a good way to get upside down on a car loan in a hurry

Let me know when this bubble pops, because I'm very interested in a lightly used 992.1 S/4S

I honestly wish I wasn't such a manual transmission snob. The previously mentioned C8 Z06 sounds like a steal at $100k, but I 1. want a manual and 2. don't trust GM with that engine outside of a warranty (and I'm saying that as a C6 Z06 owner)

I was pretty set on a manual M2 in Twilight Purple or Java Green, but my new job is back to fully remote and I don't "need" that comfy/fast/brute of a daily driver as much now.
We made the mistake of test driving a manual 992.1 4S and I've been down the rabbit hole of research for a while. Tune only and they are making ~540whp on 93 octane and the clutch is holding just fine.

[RMB]

Originally Posted by baege

thing is 3 years later you will be able to get 115k for that 4.0 versus 60K for that M2

naturally aspirated porsches depreciate at a much lower rate than turbo charged bmws

so which one is really more expensive?

I bought a 2016 GT4 new. By the time you pay for just regular service ($1000 for oil changes at dealership), put any miles on it to actually use it, it does go down in value enough that I personally don’t think it’s worth it. Plus, I bought a “GT” product because Porsche said “it was a street legal car meant to be used on track. The pinnacle of Porsche engineering and motorsport heritage”. However, after 3rd gear was blowing up on street driven GT4’s, Porsche reluctantly recalled them after over a year of complaints. I was personally told by my dealership if I don’t want a problem with it to never track it. Contact with PCNA didn’t offer any further help. Porsche is no different and no better than any other car manufacturer. They all have issues. Now, that was when the GT4 I had was with a MSRP around $86,000. Given all the significant price increases, I personally don’t think they are worth it now. But each person can buy one and see if it really is worth it to them. I would recommend spending time on forums to learn about potential issues though.

[grendel88]

Originally Posted by RMB

I bought a 2016 GT4 new. By the time you pay for just regular service ($1000 for oil changes at dealership), put any miles on it to actually use it, it does go down in value enough that I personally don’t think it’s worth it. Plus, I bought a “GT” product because Porsche said “it was a street legal car meant to be used on track. The pinnacle of Porsche engineering and motorsport heritage”. However, after 3rd gear was blowing up on street driven GT4’s, Porsche reluctantly recalled them after over a year of complaints. I was personally told by my dealership if I don’t want a problem with it to never track it. Contact with PCNA didn’t offer any further help. Porsche is no different and no better than any other car manufacturer. They all have issues. Now, that was when the GT4 I had was with a MSRP around $86,000. Given all the significant price increases, I personally don’t think they are worth it now. But each person can buy one and see if it really is worth it to them. I would recommend spending time on forums to learn about potential issues though.

Had 997.2 TTS, 991.1 GT3, 987 Cayman R, and 981 Boxster GTS, only new purchase was the GT3. All bought before the hype went off the rails. Fighting for an allocation and paying MSRP and over for non GT cars???? Insanity. I was put off with the whole GT car thing after 2017. P Cars are fun, but not perfect by any means and definitely not worth the markup, hassle, and generally arrogant dealer service.

[techwhiz1]

Originally Posted by RMB

I bought a 2016 GT4 new. By the time you pay for just regular service ($1000 for oil changes at dealership), put any miles on it to actually use it, it does go down in value enough that I personally don’t think it’s worth it. Plus, I bought a “GT” product because Porsche said “it was a street legal car meant to be used on track. The pinnacle of Porsche engineering and motorsport heritage”. However, after 3rd gear was blowing up on street driven GT4’s, Porsche reluctantly recalled them after over a year of complaints. I was personally told by my dealership if I don’t want a problem with it to never track it. Contact with PCNA didn’t offer any further help. Porsche is no different and no better than any other car manufacturer. They all have issues. Now, that was when the GT4 I had was with a MSRP around $86,000. Given all the significant price increases, I personally don’t think they are worth it now. But each person can buy one and see if it really is worth it to them. I would recommend spending time on forums to learn about potential issues though.

A guy I work with just put a tranny in his GT3 because Porsche doesn't sell the rebuild kit. It was 2nd or 3rd gear, but even the folks that build gear boxes around here could not get parts. $26k