[414bhp]

Originally Posted by baege

OP did you end up getting anything?

I've not purchased anything but I did have an excellent drive of a friend's 1994 325i wagon that has really lit my fire for E30 BMWs. My friend's E30 wagon had many of the good vibes and sounds to rival the old Porsche 356 but much more modern performance. Because his E30 is a wagon, I brought my CTS-V wagon for a comparison drive on our local back roads.

Before our drive, the CTS-V wagon was "the one" I would never sell. But after a few hours with the E30, I realized that the E30 is more engaging than the CTS-V wagon in town and on twisties, even though it is slower. The BMW is the first car that tempts me to replace the wicked CTS-V.

No, the E30's brakes weren't as good as the Caddy's Brembos, and the I6 engine felt downright anemic next to the CTS-V's supercharged V8, but the BMW sounded twice as good and was coursing with delicious road feel that the Cadillac filtered out. At ~2800 pounds, the E30 was a lightweight treat, with much of the joy of an earlier Miata stretched into a wagon. The CTS-V is amazing, too, but it's sleepy in town, and you'll be doubling the speed limits on the back roads if you exploit its power and grip.

This is a pickle for me because the E30 I drove was extensively modified (2.5L I6 engine stroked and cammed to 2.8L, suspension modernized for weekend romps, full repaint), and it would be no small task to replicate this top-notch car. Yet, I don't think I'd want to accept any lesser 325i substitutes because this souped-up E30 sounded so good, drove so well, and yet was still borderline slow.


I think I'll continue exploring 1980s and 1990s driver's cars and see if there's anything with a similar soul to the E30 wagon that would fill the shoes of my AMG GT S instead of replacing my CTS-V. That way, the older, potentially less dependable car could be my weekend car rather than my daily.

(More pictures and obscene details on the driving dynamic of the two wagons here.)

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by 414bhp

But after a few hours with the E30, I realized that the E30 is more engaging than the CTS-V wagon in town and on twisties, even though it is slower. The BMW is the first car that tempts me to replace the wicked CTS-V.

You REALLY need to go drive a 987.2 Cayman Base if the E30 may have changed you mind about what driving fun and excitement really is and how you don't need a ton of power to do it. Seeing that you constantly bring up the 356, the Cayman literally is the 356 reimagined.

The advantages to the 987.2 Base model is that it has 2.9 flat 6 that has no IMS, not susceptible to bore scoring, is not direct injected like the S models, has a closed deck block, forged rods/crank/pistons, super robust dry sump oiling and cooling systems, generally easy to work on, and over 50% of the parts are 997 generation 911. For $30K-35K, it's hard to think of another car that checks all the boxes you're looking for. Also, the 987.2 cars are starting to appreciate fractionally because more and more people have become clued in that the 987.2 Cayman may be the best modern day old school Porsche.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

You REALLY need to go drive a 987.2 Cayman Base if the E30 may have changed you mind about what driving fun and excitement really is and how you don't need a ton of power to do it. Seeing that you constantly bring up the 356, the Cayman literally is the 356 reimagined.

The advantages to the 987.2 Base model is that it has 2.9 flat 6 that has no IMS, not susceptible to bore scoring, is not direct injected like the S models, has a closed deck block, forged rods/crank/pistons, super robust dry sump oiling and cooling systems, generally easy to work on, and over 50% of the parts are 997 generation 911. For $30K-35K, it's hard to think of another car that checks all the boxes you're looking for. Also, the 987.2 cars are starting to appreciate fractionally because more and more people have become clued in that the 987.2 Cayman may be the best modern day old school Porsche.

Man, the the Boxster and Coxster are the two biggest snoozes I've driven. They're technically extremely competent, but have NO personality. They don't have fun. They're the tax accountants of cars. They're very good at what they do, but you don't want to share a beer with them.

[baege]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Man, the the Boxster and Coxster are the two biggest snoozes I've driven. They're technically extremely competent, but have NO personality. They don't have fun. They're the tax accountants of cars. They're very good at what they do, but you don't want to share a beer with them.

just goes to show you how subjective it all is, my 2014 Cayman 981S was the most fun i have had with any car, took me to a new level of enjoyment which I honestly havent found again (I got bored of it as hedonic adaption kicked in, but those first 3 months were the most fun I ever had with a car)

it seems like you like vettes, I went from that 14 cayman S to a 15 C7 manual, within 3 days, I wanted my Cayman S back, that car was not nearly as fun TO ME

different strokes (and bores) for different folks

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by baege

just goes to show you how subjective it all is, my 2014 Cayman 981S was the most fun i have had with any car, took me to a new level of enjoyment which I honestly havent found again (I got bored of it as hedonic adaption kicked in, but those first 3 months were the most fun I ever had with a car)

it seems like you like vettes, I went from that 14 cayman S to a 15 C7 manual, within 3 days, I wanted my Cayman S back, that car was not nearly as fun TO ME

different strokes (and bores) for different folks

Agreed, people like different stuff.

I like a little bit of drama. The C7 is kind of boring to me as well, too digital. I want something that will kick the rear end out and be rowdy. The Porsche twins absolutely do not want to do that, lol.

The perk is there's a whole buncha cars out there that like to shake their ass end out. The perk of automotive hobbies is that there used to be all kinds of cars for all kinds of people. Not as much now, but at least there's used cars.

[NSXR]

A Miata is always the answer, if you can fit.

[414bhp]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Then you should get a Z3M Roadster. It's an E30 underneath suspension wise, but with a great S-motor in it. Plus open top to boot.

That's an interesting idea! The owner of the E30 Touring did liken his car to the Z3 as well.

[414bhp]

Originally Posted by NSXR

A Miata is always the answer, if you can fit.

I can and the NC Miata is my cheapo dream car.

[414bhp]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Agreed, people like different stuff.

I like a little bit of drama. The C7 is kind of boring to me as well, too digital. I want something that will kick the rear end out and be rowdy. The Porsche twins absolutely do not want to do that, lol.

The perk is there's a whole buncha cars out there that like to shake their ass end out. The perk of automotive hobbies is that there used to be all kinds of cars for all kinds of people. Not as much now, but at least there's used cars.

I've driven the 987.2 Cayman Base and I loved how nimble and communicative it was. Maybe it's time to revisit it.

Like BlkGS, I tend to like cars with enough power to wag their tails. The base Cayman seemed like it could use more power. The E30 Touring felt like it could use more too, but I've seen plenty of drifty E30 videos to know that solutions are out there!

[Alfisti]

I keep coming back to a Z4M drop top.

[NSXR]

Originally Posted by 414bhp

I can and the NC Miata is my cheapo dream car.

I had an NA and a Mazdaspeed NB. Loved both of them, but curiously preferred the NA.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Man, the the Boxster and Coxster are the two biggest snoozes I've driven. They're technically extremely competent, but have NO personality. They don't have fun. They're the tax accountants of cars. They're very good at what they do, but you don't want to share a beer with them.

No personality? I don't think you were driving them hard enough I've owned a number of performance cars and I'd say the Cayman has the most personality of every car I've owned, including my 2018 M2. Every time that I drive the car, it feels like an event. That's what I love about it.

You can't drive them like a high hp/tq car and they don't have "rowdy" traits. My turbo BMWs made me a lazy driver and I had to re-learn how to drive a car hard when I got the Cayman. It's not incredibly slow either. I've coaxed a few lower 5 second and mid 13@102mph 1/4 miles out of it. Definitely not terrible. You do feel the lack of HP above 100mph. The Cayman Base is all about B road 40mph to 90mph driving.

Yeah, their limits are high and have impressive composure, but they also help you hone your skills. The heavy controls (shifter, brakes, steering, etc.), the sounds, the mechanical connection, the size, visibility, the looks, the weight, plus the drivetrain and engine improvements of the .2 cars is just a steal for the money, IMO.

As for oversteer, my Cayman has the rare LSD option and I've got all season performance tires on it. I can hang the tail out with power oversteer if I'm being ham-fisted. I don't really see the point, but it's there, especially at slower speeds and tighter turns. I intentionally went with all seasons to introduce some slide, oversteer, etc. to learn the limits and traits of the car.

[Alfisti]

He wants the rear to step out and Porsches don't really do that unless you're a bit of an idiot with the throttle.

We all have different needs, I love nothing more than changing down a couple of gears (well selecting, mine is PDK), pointing the nose and just wailing on the throttle and the 305 rears with engine on top just bites like a SOB and I fire out of corners. Cue giggles from the back seat as the kids have the engine right by their ears.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by NSXR

A Miata is always the answer, if you can fit.

This. I'm on my 6th

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by NSXR

I had an NA and a Mazdaspeed NB. Loved both of them, but curiously preferred the NA.

Same. I've had 3 NAs (including a supercharged 97M), the Mazdaspeed ( Modded), a turbo 300whp PRHT NC & current 30th. I do want to add a 95M as I love the color, but not replace the 30th with it.

Out of all of them, my 30th is my favorite

[baege]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Agreed, people like different stuff.

I like a little bit of drama. The C7 is kind of boring to me as well, too digital. I want something that will kick the rear end out and be rowdy. The Porsche twins absolutely do not want to do that, lol.

The perk is there's a whole buncha cars out there that like to shake their ass end out. The perk of automotive hobbies is that there used to be all kinds of cars for all kinds of people. Not as much now, but at least there's used cars.

I get it, my M2 competition was more fun in some ways than the cayman, it has that hooligan edge to it, but I am an NA guy and turbo lag takes away from the experience for me...I think if the M2 had had a naturally aspirated inline six like from bmws of old I would have preferred it overall to the caymans.

[baege]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

No personality? I don't think you were driving them hard enough I've owned a number of performance cars and I'd say the Cayman has the most personality of every car I've owned, including my 2018 M2. Every time that I drive the car, it feels like an event. That's what I love about it.

You can't drive them like a high hp/tq car and they don't have "rowdy" traits. My turbo BMWs made me a lazy driver and I had to re-learn how to drive a car hard when I got the Cayman. It's not incredibly slow either. I've coaxed a few lower 5 second and mid 13@102mph 1/4 miles out of it. Definitely not terrible. You do feel the lack of HP above 100mph. The Cayman Base is all about B road 40mph to 90mph driving.

Yeah, their limits are high and have impressive composure, but they also help you hone your skills. The heavy controls (shifter, brakes, steering, etc.), the sounds, the mechanical connection, the size, visibility, the looks, the weight, plus the drivetrain and engine improvements of the .2 cars is just a steal for the money, IMO.

As for oversteer, my Cayman has the rare LSD option and I've got all season performance tires on it. I can hang the tail out with power oversteer if I'm being ham-fisted. I don't really see the point, but it's there, especially at slower speeds and tighter turns. I intentionally went with all seasons to introduce some slide, oversteer, etc. to learn the limits and traits of the car.

you do a good job of capturing the fun bits of the cayman experience!

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by baege

I get it, my M2 competition was more fun in some ways than the cayman, it has that hooligan edge to it, but I am an NA guy and turbo lag takes away from the experience for me...I think if the M2 had had a naturally aspirated inline six like from bmws of old I would have preferred it overall to the caymans.

I've got the answer!!! Get a 987.2 Cayman 6MT and a OG M2 DCT That's what I did. I had a 2016 M235 6MT that I did love, but turbo lag was a very real thing with the 6MT. The chassis in the M2 so much better buttoned down than the M235 in almost every situation and the N55 teamed with a DCT feels punchy and lag free unless you're under 4000rpms and holding the gear and then punch it. In daily driving and hard driving, it's hard to feel any lag. It feels much like an NA multi-cam V8 to me under full boil.

I do admit I'm overly biased to the Cayman. I also understand that many aren't into it for various reasons. Looks wise, I do think it looks a lot better in person and with a few minor exterior enhancements and a mild drop. The amount of rubber necking, thumbs up, and general attention it garners on a daily basis is perplexing. Do they not know it's a slow car

[vt100]

Originally Posted by 414bhp

I've driven the 987.2 Cayman Base and I loved how nimble and communicative it was. Maybe it's time to revisit it.

Like BlkGS, I tend to like cars with enough power to wag their tails. The base Cayman seemed like it could use more power. The E30 Touring felt like it could use more too, but I've seen plenty of drifty E30 videos to know that solutions are out there!

718 Spyder! 4.0 would give you plenty of power. And IMHO one of the best looking cars ever
PS: Or (if you can) Spyder RS!

[Alfisti]

THis is why I think the Z4M is the answer. Op is not REALLY after a true classic, he wants some modernity. Straight 6, NA, short wheelbase, more playful than the Porsches etc. I don't see a downside.

[414bhp]

Originally Posted by NSXR

I had an NA and a Mazdaspeed NB. Loved both of them, but curiously preferred the NA.

I felt too tall in the NB. I don't know the NA that well.

[414bhp]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

THis is why I think the Z4M is the answer. Op is not REALLY after a true classic, he wants some modernity. Straight 6, NA, short wheelbase, more playful than the Porsches etc. I don't see a downside.

You are right on your points. If the Z4M has godly steering feedback, it hits on all other measures.