[BroDoze]

^^ OR, if you want to take your audio to the next level, get the UP10 Amp/DSP combo that has a subwoofer pre-out. All plug n play.

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by kenkamm

I don't know if anyone is going to sit down and draw you up a wiring diagram especially considering there are a lot of YouTube videos out there...

But one of the important (and perhaps confusing?) aspects of this is tapping into the signal of the stock BMW sound system. Fortunately a company called Technic PNP makes a harness that plugs into the OEM Booster and "taps" into the signal. This is a speaker signal, so it then gets sent to a Line Out Converter (LOC) to get converted to RCA level so you can send the signal to your subwoofer amp.

Technic PNP sells the whole kit with all the wiring to tap into the Booster and you can buy it with the LOC included (and it looks like they provide the harness for that too in the picture.)Attachment 3659641

Then it's just a matter of a pair of RCA cables run to the amp. For power, the amp will of course need to be connected through a fuse to the positive terminal of the battery and to a grounding point on the chassis. Then you run your speaker wires to your sub!

There's really not much more to it than that besides the turn-on wiring. I'm not 100% clear on that so maybe the OP can chime in.

The LOC will automatically detect when there is a speaker signal and then transmit the on off signal through the remote out wire that connects to the mono amp’s remote in connection.

The remote wire is included in the kit.

[Mastamoe]

Originally Posted by kenkamm

I don't know if anyone is going to sit down and draw you up a wiring diagram especially considering there are a lot of YouTube videos out there...

But one of the important (and perhaps confusing?) aspects of this is tapping into the signal of the stock BMW sound system. Fortunately a company called Technic PNP makes a harness that plugs into the OEM Booster and "taps" into the signal. This is a speaker signal, so it then gets sent to a Line Out Converter (LOC) to get converted to RCA level so you can send the signal to your subwoofer amp.

Technic PNP sells the whole kit with all the wiring to tap into the Booster and you can buy it with the LOC included (and it looks like they provide the harness for that too in the picture.)Attachment 3659641

Then it's just a matter of a pair of RCA cables run to the amp. For power, the amp will of course need to be connected through a fuse to the positive terminal of the battery and to a grounding point on the chassis. Then you run your speaker wires to your sub!

There's really not much more to it than that besides the turn-on wiring. I'm not 100% clear on that so maybe the OP can chime in.

Thank you for explaining the process. Much appreciated. If I do get this done, I'll make a list for the newbies like myself

Originally Posted by BroDoze

^^ OR, if you want to take your audio to the next level, get the UP10 Amp/DSP combo that has a subwoofer pre-out. All plug n play.

Do I need the technic harness if I go with the up10 dsp?

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by Mastamoe

Do I need the technic harness if I go with the up10 dsp?

If you get the UP 10 DSP you do not need the Technic harness. You would need the harness that goes with the UP 10 DSP for your vehicle. For example if you have the Harman Kardon speakers, you need:

MATCH PP-BMW 1.9RAM-HK

When I bought the UP10 DSP my audio store threw the wiring harness in for free. Crutchfield sells them separately however. If you want to preserve the Center channel you also need this:

MATCH MEC ANALOG IN

You could possibly get away without Analog module by simulating a Center channel, mixing 50% front left with 50% front right in the DSP software and sending that to the Center channel speaker.

If you go the UP10 DSP either get it professionally installed or read the manual carefully. The UP10 DSP needs to have a jumper switched inside. It is easy to do but you don’t want to blow the DSP so you can’t ignore this. Similarly the Analog module needs a jumper switched and one removed. Again easy and clearly outlined in the owner manuals.

[Mastamoe]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

If you get the UP 10 DSP you do not need the Technic harness. You would need the harness that goes with the UP 10 DSP for your vehicle. For example if you have the Harman Kardon speakers, you need:

MATCH PP-BMW 1.9RAM-HK

When I bought the UP10 DSP my audio store threw the wiring harness in for free. Crutchfield sells them separately however. If you want to preserve the Center channel you also need this:

MATCH MEC ANALOG IN

You could possibly get away without Analog module by simulating a Center channel, mixing 50% front left with 50% front right in the DSP software and sending that to the Center channel speaker.

If you go the UP10 DSP either get it professionally installed or read the manual carefully. The UP10 DSP needs to have a jumper switched inside. It is easy to do but you don’t want to blow the DSP so you can’t ignore this. Similarly the Analog module needs a jumper switched and one removed. Again easy and clearly outlined in the owner manuals.

Thank you! I also want to add a subwoofer like this in this post. Would I also need an additional amp for the subwoofer? I'm trying to make a complete shopping list so I can get all this stuff at once.

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by Mastamoe

Thank you! I also want to add a subwoofer like this in this post. Would I also need an additional amp for the subwoofer? I'm trying to make a complete shopping list so I can get all this stuff at once.

In that case I can help. I just went through this entire process myself. I just finished buying everything. But I need to ask a few questions. What is your goal here? What do you expect the subwoofer to do?

There are trunk subs that can be purchased with built in amplifiers and those would pair up nicely with the TechnicPNP harness. But then you potentially give up a lot of trunk space and how good those all in ones perform is an open question.

On the other hand if you want the stealth enclosure like in the first post of this thread, and you also want a good performing sub that can hit pretty high levels, yes you need a monoblock amp for it.

You also asked about the Match UP10 DSP. What is the goal with that? Yes it has 10 amplified channels but they are not meant for powerful subwoofers. The Match UP10 DSP will drive the underseat subwoofers (though that will be a problem in itself, I can explain in another post).

In theory you could disconnect one underseat sub and then use that channel to power a trunk subwoofer but the DSP can only output 160w at 2ohms, so it is very limited and that will likely be underwhelming for a trunk sub. It also means running the underseat subs in parallel now, meaning they share 1 channel whereas before they had each their own channel.

You might think, let’s disconnect both underseat subs, combine the 2 channels, now we should have decent power for the trunk subwoofer. Well yes and no. I emailed Audiotec Fischer and they were very clear, we cannot run the Match UP 10 DSP in bridge mode. So the list of subwoofers that can be driven will be limited, and even then the maximum combined power is 320 w.

So again it starts to look like if you get the DSP you still need a dedicated amp for the trunk subwoofer, especially if we want to keep the underseat subwoofers.

So, before I get too detailed and complex:

1x Subwoofer
1x subwoofer enclosure (stealth? like in OP photo)
1x amp
1x DSP (optional)
1x wiring kit for the whole setup

What subwoofer you get will determine not only the wiring needed but also what a good amp for it is. Once we narrow down the sub and enclosure, then you pick the amp. After you decide do you want a DSP or not. Then we figure out all the wiring and fuses and so on.

ETA: My setup example:

1x 12” sub (rated for up to 1000 w rms, but recommended 500 w rms)
1x Stealth enclosure (informed internal wiring is 12 awg)
1x 12 awg speaker wire (to connect sub enclosure to amp)
1x 600 w rms monoblock amp
1x 4awg wire to connect amp to distribution block and to ground the amp (gauge is amp dependent)
1x 50a fuse for amp (fuse is amp dependent, could be 60a or less or more for different amps)
1x DSP
1x DSP Wiring harness
1x RCA cable mono to connect DSP to Amp for sub
1x 6 awg wire to connect dsp to distribution block (dsp dependent)
1x 50a fuse for DSP (DSP dependent)
1x distribution block for tidy setup. Both fuses are internal to distribution block. If you don’t get the dsp you don’t need this)
1x 4 awg wire connecting distributor block to car battery
1x 100a fuse near battery

[BroDoze]

You forgot digital, lossless pre-amp! ^^

[Mastamoe]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

In that case I can help. I just went through this entire process myself. I just finished buying everything. But I need to ask a few questions. What is your goal here? What do you expect the subwoofer to do?..

You are the man, I appreciate the information! Sounds like a hell of a set up!!

I want to feel the bass in my chest. I was told the underseat speakers will never achieve this, even with the match up10 dsp. I don't like the idea of a giant subwoofer enclosure in my trunk and definitely want the stealth enclosure.

I want to keep the HK speakers(including the underwear subs)inside the car for now, I believe the match up10 dsp will help those speakers sound better and just help with the overall sound management?

I don't want to skimp on the amp or the sub. 12" sub seems kind of overkill for me, I think I would be happy with a 10" subwoofer like OP.

Honestly, I want everything you have, but a 10" subwoofer instead. What brand did you go with for the amp and sub? Would you be willing to share any pics of your set up?

Originally Posted by BroDoze

You forgot digital, lossless pre-amp! ^^

Where would this fit in with AdonisP91's setup?

[BroDoze]

Check out the big Audio thread. I installed a digital pre-amp made for the G8x BMWs that completely cleans up the sound the stock headunits barfs out. Super clean digital signal.
Without a perfect source, your efforts will never be perfect. The stock headunit really puts a bunch of bad, dirty stuff into the signal. YMMV

I’ve got a big sealed 12” trunk sub and it is not too much. The G87’s back seats make a pretty good seal and bass struggles to get through them.

No way a 10” would be enough for me. I’m entertaining a ported 12” enclosure, but I don’t want to give up the sealed performance.

Bigger is better - especially with speakers. A 10” sub will be overdriven, I guarantee it. Zero headroom or dynamics in this car.

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by Mastamoe

You are the man, I appreciate the information! Sounds like a hell of a set up!!

I want to feel the bass in my chest. I was told the underseat speakers will never achieve this, even with the match up10 dsp. I don't like the idea of a giant subwoofer enclosure in my trunk and definitely want the stealth enclosure.

If the goal is for sub bass impact, then the simplest way is to get the TechnicPNP kit, some speaker wire matched to the awg of the internal wiring of your sub enclosure, and the subwoofer itself. That’s it.

Now a few things to consider. The larger the sub the more impact. That’s #1. But #2 a sealed enclosure will never be as impactful as a ported enclosure. The stealth enclosures are sealed. So if you are going with a 10”, you are going to need a very good quality 10” subwoofer and a good quality amp. In another post we can talk more specifics but I want to lay out the general game plan. Sealed enclosures are amazing for sound quality and deep bass extension but they aren’t as impactful, i.e. that chest pump you desire.

I want to keep the HK speakers(including the underwear subs)inside the car for now, I believe the match up10 dsp will help those speakers sound better and just help with the overall sound management?

That’s my hope that the DSP gives us better control and fixes issues with the stock configuration. I think the HK speakers themselves are likely pretty good. A few of us in the other thread are trying to fix the sound with the DSP. Maybe hold on for now before committing on that front. The TechnicPNP is something like 150$, that’s a pretty good way to start. The DSP is close to 1800$ all in. So you have to be pretty committed.

I don't want to skimp on the amp or the sub. 12" sub seems kind of overkill for me, I think I would be happy with a 10" subwoofer like OP.

Right on. If your goal is that strong bass you feel in your chest, then avoid those slim design subwoofers. Focus on good quality 10” and amp for now.

Honestly, I want everything you have, but a 10" subwoofer instead. What brand did you go with for the amp and sub? Would you be willing to share any pics of your set up?

My car is still in transit, hasn’t been delivered yet, but yes I would be happy to share photos and how to install it all. There are a lot of great amps and subs. I don’t know your budget. Do you want to go with a big brand name, say a JL Audio sub for example? The W3, W6, and W7’s are all fantastic. Are you willing to go for smaller brands known for great quality? Audiomobile and Audiofrog get good reviews too. I decided to give Audiofrog a try. I bought the GB12D4. I also strongly considered the 10” Audiomobile Elite 3210. JL Audio W7 was also on my short list.

The amp will depend on the power requirements for the sub one chooses. I personally ordered a Morel MPS 1.550. My goal was to get good quality but also with a compact design. I special ordered it so I am not sure I can cancel the order and send it back. I just became aware of the Match UP1fx which has similar power and is in an even smaller compact design. That would be my choice if I can send the Morel back.

But there are literally tons and tons of great amps out there from JL Audio, Alpine, and so on. The choices are overwhelming honestly.

Where would this fit in with AdonisP91's setup?

From a signal path, it would fit between the car’s idrive system that connects to our phones and the DSP. Basically without it, the signal is sent from the phone to the idrive touchscreen panel. Then it is sent the car’s HK ram module. That is then sent to the DSP, which then sends it to the speakers.

With this new device, the signal cuts out the HK Ram module. It goes straight from the idrive panel to the DSP. It should result in better sound since the signal path is entirely digital now instead of it getting converted to analog and back a few times.

[Mastamoe]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

If the goal is for sub bass impact, then the simplest way is to get the TechnicPNP kit...

DUDE!! I just read through that entire thread and the amount of input and knowledge you added is astonishing. To top it off, you dont even have your car yet!

After reading your and brodoze's input, I think I want to go with a 12 inch subwoofer. I was hoping the match up10 was a plug and play solution to all the sound quality issues. It appears that isn't the case, at least not without a lot of tweaking. I actually asked "was it worth it?" in that thread before you guys took it over

You make a good point of trying the subwoofer and amp first, it might just be the answer to what I'm looking for.

So I'm going to need:
Technic harness
A high quality 12 inch subwoofer
Hq amp
Stealth enclosure

Should I also add the preamp to this list? Did you guys ever huddle up on a group buy for that?

The biggest thing I took away from the big thread was to stay away from the BT version of the matchup10 dsp.

Originally Posted by BroDoze

Check out the big Audio thread. I installed a digital pre-amp made for the G8x BMWs that completely cleans up the sound the stock headunits barfs out. Super clean digital signal.
Without a perfect source, your efforts will never be perfect. The stock headunit really puts a bunch of bad, dirty stuff into the signal. YMMV

I’ve got a big sealed 12” trunk sub and it is not too much. The G87’s back seats make a pretty good seal and bass struggles to get through them.

No way a 10” would be enough for me. I’m entertaining a ported 12” enclosure, but I don’t want to give up the sealed performance.

Bigger is better - especially with speakers. A 10” sub will be overdriven, I guarantee it. Zero headroom or dynamics in this car.

I appreciate everything you're doing to lead the charge on this endeavor!!

Do you have photos of your trunk set up? Curious to see how much space the sub box takes.

I was reading the big thread backwards for a while, so I want to ask were you able to resolve the issues you had with the preamp?


Thank you both!!

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by Mastamoe

DUDE!! I just read through that entire thread and the amount of input and knowledge you added is astonishing. To top it off, you dont even have your car yet!

After reading your and brodoze's input, I think I want to go with a 12 inch subwoofer. I was hoping the match up10 was a plug and play solution to all the sound quality issues. It appears that isn't the case, at least not without a lot of tweaking. I actually asked "was it worth it?" in that thread before you guys took it over

You make a good point of trying the subwoofer and amp first, it might just be the answer to what I'm looking for.

So I'm going to need:
Technic harness
A high quality 12 inch subwoofer
Hq amp
Stealth enclosure

Should I also add the preamp to this list? Did you guys ever huddle up on a group buy for that?

The biggest thing I took away from the big thread was to stay away from the BT version of the matchup10 dsp.



I appreciate everything you're doing to lead the charge on this endeavor!!

Do you have photos of your trunk set up? Curious to see how much space the sub box takes.

I was reading the big thread backwards for a while, so I want to ask were you able to resolve the issues you had with the preamp?


Thank you both!!

1) Without a DSP like the Match UP10 DSP or better the preamp will be entirely useless. So no you shouldn’t for now. Also no one has expressed interest in a group buy, so that seems to be a dead end.

2) Regarding the 12” sub. I just heard back from the guy that makes the stealth enclosures. He actually made a mistake and built a 10” box for me. I could wait and have him eventually make a new 12” box, but he showed me a picture of the 10” one he built.

If we think about the trunk space there are 3 sections, the left wheel arch area with the liner, the right wheel arch area with the liner, where the fuse box panel is, and the main central position. The 10” stealth enclosure goes right up to the edge.

The guy mentioned a 12” sub enclosure will go past the cargo floor lift line. Why is that an important observation? Well if you need access to the battery it will be encumbered by the sub as it will be hard to lift the floor cargo liner.

In light of this, I think I will try to return my 12” sub and change it for the 10” version. Visual Ice’s error might be a blessing in disguise. Here are pictures sent to me.

[BroDoze]

Originally Posted by Mastamoe

Do you have photos of your trunk set up? Curious to see how much space the sub box takes.

I was reading the big thread backwards for a while, so I want to ask were you able to resolve the issues you had with the preamp?

No pics, really. I've just got a ghetto powered RF 12" sub box - no fancy built-in side box / external amp. I have no need for my trunk in this car, so I'm fine with the box taking up a ton of room. I've had some very good luck with RF's various powered sub boxes in multiple cars. They've put a lot of thought into the subwoofer+amp+cabinet they use. There's a reason they're so popular. Pretty hard-hitting, musical sub solutions. The "next step" would be 3-4x the cost and probably dual 12's. Again, not really the direction I'm going for with this car.

I did get the pre-amp sorted. The system volumes take a bit to "imagine" what things were like, stock. Luckily, I have my laptop plugged in via a long USB cable, so I can make volume adjustments on the fly.

I didn't mean to say you MUST do the pre-amp. The MATCH UP10 DSP/AMP is a great setup. You need at least that at a minimum. I think the digital pre-amp would just be the next logical route if you're not happy with the stock stuff BMW puts in the input signal. From crossover points you can't change, to questionable EQ, to loudness changes and bass drop-offs (this for me was the biggest PITA and the main reason I pulled the trigger on the pre-amp. I hated that there was no volume range where something wasn't messing with the input signal.)

[Mastamoe]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

2) Regarding the 12” sub. I just heard back from the guy that makes the stealth enclosures. He actually made a mistake and built a 10” box for me. I could wait and have him eventually make a new 12” box, but he showed me a picture of the 10” one he built.

Good to know! I wouldn't want the subwoofer in the way of that panel, either. I guess I'll stick with the 10" sub. I see you got the grille, I was on the fence about that but I might get one also.

Did you not get it pre wired? I wasn't sure which way to go on that, either.

I sent visual ice a message to see if he has photos of a 12" enclosure, just to see if it's something I can live with.

Originally Posted by BroDoze

No pics, really. I've just got a ghetto powered RF 12" sub box - no fancy built-in side box / external amp. I have no need for my trunk in this car, so I'm fine with the box taking up a ton of room.

Ah okay. I just looked up photos and I definitely don't want that in my trunk
I'll consider the pre -amp if I decide I need the match up10. Thank you!

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by Mastamoe

Good to know! I wouldn't want the subwoofer in the way of that panel, either. I guess I'll stick with the 10" sub. I see you got the grille, I was on the fence about that but I might get one also.

Did you not get it pre wired? I wasn't sure which way to go on that, either.

I sent visual ice a message to see if he has photos of a 12" enclosure, just to see if it's something I can live with.


Ah okay. I just looked up photos and I definitely don't want that in my trunk
I'll consider the pre -amp if I decide I need the match up10. Thank you!

I did request the internal wiring prep. I’m not too sold on the grille aesthetics, I wonder if aftermarket options might be compatible. But the important point is just to have the sub protected I guess.

[Mastamoe]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

I did request the internal wiring prep. I’m not too sold on the grille aesthetics, I wonder if aftermarket options might be compatible. But the important point is just to have the sub protected I guess.

Visual ice says he does not have a pic of a 12 inch enclosure, that the majority of people go with 10".

[snekjumpr]

Originally Posted by AdonisP91

With this new device, the signal cuts out the HK Ram module. It goes straight from the idrive panel to the DSP. It should result in better sound since the signal path is entirely digital now instead of it getting converted to analog and back a few times.

Wouldn't this UP10 bluetooth module accomplish the same goal of bypassing the RAM and streaming an audio signal directly, ie. Phone --> UP10 --> speakers?

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-96rQjT...BTHD-UP10.html

[Mastamoe]

Originally Posted by snekjumpr

Wouldn't this UP10 bluetooth module accomplish the same goal of bypassing the RAM and streaming an audio signal directly, ie. Phone --> UP10 --> speakers?

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-96rQjT...BTHD-UP10.html

Yes, but I believe you lose all your dings and dongs in doing so.

Say that 10x real fast

[snekjumpr]

Originally Posted by Mastamoe

Yes, but I believe you lose all your dings and dongs in doing so.

Say that 10x real fast

You sure? You're not replacing the RAM, just bypassing it for your audio stream. I suppose you might lose the visual display of the album or stream that shows up in Carplay, but I could live with that. Using the PC-Tool wirelessly would be a nice perk.

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by snekjumpr

You sure? You're not replacing the RAM, just bypassing it for your audio stream. I suppose you might lose the visual display of the album or stream that shows up in Carplay, but I could live with that. Using the PC-Tool wirelessly would be a nice perk.

A few things here. A) Bluetooth quality is terrible, this would be a downgrade. It only makes sense for people without Bluetooth or CarPlay/android in their cars already, like old cars.

B) Using this module means you have 1 of 2 options. Set global priority in the DSP to the car’s analog signal, so when you need to use your blinkers or a system sound comes in, the Bluetooth playback pauses to process the car’s system sounds. Or you set the global priority to the Bluetooth but then you have no system sounds. You can’t have system sounds play on top of your music.

C) If you are willing to accept the compromise of B) then you might as well just use the digital optical in on the DSP and a 20$ adapter for your phone. Yes you need to wire in the phone but at least you now have a real digital signal. Plus with the right hub, you can have the car charge the phone at the same time. This option integrates really well with Apple CarPlay so you still have your maps and music control from the idrive screen. However you still can’t have system sounds play back on top of music.

[AdonisP91]

Originally Posted by Mastamoe

Visual ice says he does not have a pic of a 12 inch enclosure, that the majority of people go with 10".

I can’t swap my sub for a 10”. It was a special order so the store doesn’t want to refund. Visual Ice says he will build me a 12”. I guess it will go over the floor line. I’ll find out how bad that is and share pictures when I get my stealth enclosure, it might be a while though as Visual Ice said he is going on holiday.

[snekjumpr]

I have dual subs, and the grills go over the liner. What works tho is that if you lower the back seats, you can lift the liner slightly and then slide it towards the front of the car to access the battery.